I get ya! And I definitely wasn’t trying to argue you out of your point of view or anything, and I get it 100%.
I have not! I think I’ve heard the name before but that’s it, and now I’m intrigued. 
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Book 2 is out 
And it does get better, I think it works best if you go less for opposites more just someone who doesn’t treat him seriously. The less seriously you take M the more entertaining they are.
As for being every bad boy stereotype mesh together, that’s true. Still better than A tho.
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What would classify as not treating him seriously? Xiulan, my new detective, showered Mason with jabs at every opportunity for flirting provided, never really tolerated his bullshit. And I, well… I have a wide range of nicknames for Mason, starting with chaotic neutral drow rogue, little Timmy’s first OC and ending with russian meme about masons. It’s hard to treat someone seriously when the only thing they really do is brood, defy Detective’s authority, tamper with the case and generally irritate me.
And A… Oh Father in Holy Heaven, A. Adam’s romance is absolutely atrocious for me because I went in expecting, y’know, an ice queen / king. Because I just replayed Deathless with Wakefield’s romance and God knows he’s my favorite. I expected him to be spicy, that’s expected, I expected him to not give in so easily, but dear god, I remember the irritation little me felt after starting book 2’s demo.
Nate (who, surprisingly, turned out to be the only one I’ve liked in my new run), Felix get progression, wholesome support and a budding romance, even Mason moved a bit. Adam, however? Still the same commando, still fairly controlling and rude, still feels like I’m in book 1 given the fact he struggles with his feelings like a teen. It felt so deflating that I just stopped waiting for book 2 in general.
Doesn’t help that A’s romance feels like a doormat simulator. He constantly does the usual angsty brooding crap, he constantly pushes back MC and dear god, it’s so irritating! You’re over several centuries old, Adam! I thought you’d get some decision - making skills in these several centuries. Even Ann Rice’s vampires didn’t brood this much. And I’m saying this as someone who prefers the film version of Interview with the Vampire to book version solely because I didn’t have to read Louis’ purple prose.
I would understand if he’d tell detective they need to wait for him. I’d understand it because I did the same. I’d understand if they were clear about their feelings, but currently it just feels like goddamn leash. Adam isn’t sincere, Adam doesn’t talk with the person who loves him, Adam broods.
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It doesn’t get better with A in Book Two and Three’s demo, I think that’s where people started losing their patience with them. The rest of the RO’s will look with varying degrees of sympathy and ill-concealed pity at your MC as A pushes and pulls away for no good reason.
But at least you can smooch Bobby to make them jealous for a second.
That’s why I prefer A in LT route, at least they have a good reason to brood and stay away.
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This means you have to kiss Bobbie, though, which, eugh. Also, the Douglas path is better because:
i) more Tina;
ii) less Bobbie; and
iii) your car gets dented in a fight again*.
*I’m still somewhat sore that Sera didn’t damage the car again during the not!Murphy parking lot fight and during the Book 2 confrontation with the trappers
I just find it a waste that Sera didn’t turn “your car gets damaged every time violence happens in its vicinity” into a recurring joke.
Like, M getting yoinked into the fight by a thrall when you’re arguing about the car getting damaged again is just visually hilarious to me, and I wish there were more scenes like that, like what Sera did with A breaking something in your office. RIP spider-plant, still possibly the funniest scene in any CoG game that isn’t Jolly Good.
See, but the apartment scene isn’t funny, just like the first car damage isn’t funny. What’s funny are the follow-ups, like M being thrown against the car door and you arguing with them, and you remarking about how the apartment survived unscathed after the Falk attack.
The car still runs perfectly fine. Just imagine, if a supernatural ends up ripping its top off, you’ll have a(n irreversible) convertible. It’s an upgrade!
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I thought people talk about ROs they hate, not wanton manslaughter of Detective’s (our) car? Or you just want to spite M, so they wouldn’t get the “back seat” special?
Did you forget about our poor apartment? Hasn’t it suffered enough that you want the car to share its blighted fate/existence as well?
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Please, stop abusing the poor detective’s belongings, they’ve been through so much already! They’ve done nothing to deserve this!
I just want my detective to be able to have a roof over her head and drive to and from work, is that so wrong?
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Only if she doesn’t already. Because if she doesn’t already, she’s a criminal and doesn’t deserve it. (According to many people, myself not included) ((homelessness is actually legal here, but not like half an hour south of here))
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So I’ll admit, right off the bat, that I probably jaded my own opinion by not romancing her first, but I really have nothing nice to say about Neeris from Runt of the Litter.
Context before I go too much further, for folks who may not know what the story’s about: Essentially, you’re a poorly-treated servant of a, I don’t quite want to call it totalitarian empire - almost more like a shogunate, in a sense, since a great deal of power and prestige lies with the military - well, whatever one would classify it as, the Vaengren Empire isn’t very nice to people of your social class. You’re literally called a thrall, for crying out loud, they don’t even acknowledge you as a person.
The big drama of the plot centers around Thralls versus Keepers (as in Gryphon Keepers, as they ride gryphons into battle), and how thralls have been kicked around basically forever, whereas keepers can act with near-impunity, and thralls are expected to obey without question.
To that end, naturally, the four ROs of the game are:
-
A gruff, brutish thrall who jumps to the defense of his fellow thralls and is thus highly respected among his kind
-
A kind-hearted thrall who is more a healer than a fighter
-
A laid-back keeper who dangerously toes the line of the status quo on a regular basis
and
- A by-the-book, no-nonsense keeper who has a compassionate heart for gryphons and is willing to do right by thralls, but also has no problem talking down her nose at them when the mood takes her.
If you guessed RO number four is Neeris, then you’re correct.
When she’s first introduced and your first few interactions with her, Neeris comes off as tough but fair. I almost get to the point of liking her. I say “almost” because she and the gruff thrall RO constantly bitch at each other about, “the High Council treats us like shit!” “Well, we’re doing it for your own good, you ungrateful wretch!” (literally how? The keepers are practically helpless without thralls doing all their busywork for them, the empire is fighting a losing war with an enemy of superior strength, the High Council is paranoid about thralls trying to rise up against them and punishes any thrall for any little thing they can think of, the keepers point fingers and accuse treachery over any presumed slight, including a poor medic who was imprisoned for not having found a cure for a previously unknown sickness yet, and anybody who tries to speak out can expect to either be exiled into hostile lands, forced into military service on the front lines, or executed on the spot), which is already cooling whatever interest I may have had in her on its own.
And then the mid-story happens.
In the mid-story, you’re forced to make what the narrative would like you to believe is a major moral choice, except the choice in question is, “save a friendly and defenseless thrall who’s injured, in danger, and stuck on a cliff, OR save the rat bastard keeper who injured him for a laugh and was torturing him and also has been nothing but a shitwad for the entire story up to now, but he’s in danger of being killed by enemy forces, OR make some wild attempt to save both.”
Okay, so, what are the stakes?
“Well, if you don’t save both, the faction of whoever you don’t save will hate you.”
Oh, damn, so I have to choose between losing the friendship of my fellow thralls, who have had my back from chapter one, or these rando keepers who probably didn’t even know I existed before today? Man, tough choice, that is.
So yeah, I chose to save the thrall. Cue Neeris trying to dump responsibility for the keeper’s life in my lap: “If he dies, it’ll be on your head.” Bitch, you have your own gryphon, and it’s significantly more experienced than mine. Furthermore, the guy’s YOUR comrade, not mine, so no, honey, his life is YOUR responsibility, nice try. And besides, all he’s ever done is piss all over us thralls, so how is it MY problem if he bites it? That’ll be a solid improvement for the thralls’ quality of life, I should think.
“You have a gryphon, so you have a duty.”
To what, the empire who will have my head on a pike if they ever find out about the gyphon I have that, legally, I am not supposed to have? To the bitch-ass keeper who’s done nothing but antagonize my fellow thralls from moment one? To you, trying to dump this burden on my shoulders and expecting me to take it? Nah, my duty is to my fellow thralls, go pound sand.
“Don’t you care about the potential risk of enemies within our borders?”
If it means the High Council gets roasted and thralls can have a fair chance at a reasonable life, then no, not particularly. (Admittedly, this is shown later to be unlikely, as the enemy ALSO has their version of thralls, and ALSO mistreats them to the point of building tensions and probable revolt, but you don’t know this information at the time, and you have to try and be sneaky in order to learn about it, so it’s missable info.)
“You’re a traitor!”
That would require me to have EVER been on your side, and if my Thrall/Council bar of 90/10 is any indicator, that is rather not the case.
“We only treat you the way we do because we’re trying to protect you.”
No, you literally are not. You’re trying to protect yourselves. If I were to talk back to one of your fellow keepers, I’d be on my way to the front lines or the executioner come morning.
Welp, there goes any chance Neeris might have had with me, how do things go from here?
Well:
Without getting too much into what happens, you get exiled. At some point, Neeris finds you out in the wilderness. If you went pro-thrall like I did, she spends the entire conversation bitching you out and talking down to you. And the narrative, for some idiotic reason, makes your character respond like they’re so terribly hurt about it, with a literal choked-out, “I thought we were friends” line from out of nowhere.
DUDE, WE HAVE NEVER FOR A MOMENT BEEN FRIENDS WITH HER, SNAP OUT OF IT
And if you get a good ending to the story, there’s another passing moment where the story goes, “You sometimes miss Neeris and Arvo (who is the other keeper RO), but they never forgave you for their fellow keeper’s death.”
Again: Not my fault he died. His two comrades could have done a better job, but decided to lump the blame on me like a pair of clods. Not to mention that the guy could’ve, you know, for once in his life decided not to torture and harass an innocent thrall for cheap kicks, which is chiefly what landed him in his predicament to begin with.
And again: I’ve never been friends with these people, so no, story, I don’t particularly miss them.
Again: This is me not having romanced Neeris or Arvo, so I can’t say for certain whether their romances are worth it or not. But, at least for Neeris… yeah. Whether her romance is decent or not, I don’t plan on dipping my toes into those waters anytime soon. Even as a casual acquaintance, I wish I had the option to just not engage with her at any point.
Yeah, I was, like, pro thrall, to the absolute extreme. My character was straight-up anti-Council from the word go. That might be the difference, honestly.
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I went pro thrall and none of this happened to me with her lol. She must’ve hated you from the beginning 
.
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These two quotes pretty much sum up the Adam “romance” for me as well. Honestly, I have yet to see any romance in the romance, other than almost touches and longing looks that might actually be indigestion. And an MC who pushes makes me extremely uncomfortable playing that path–because it feels like the MC is sexually harassing A, who repeatedly says “No!!” despite all the mixed signals. The only good news is that, in the b3 demo, your MC can walk away from him before he pulls away. I’m hoping for more of that. My MC is just rolling her eyes and sighing at him every time he starts with the melodrama now.
Unlike you, I like Mason… most of the time. In book 2, he really treats the MC with more respect than the rest of the bunch (he is the one to put his foot down in the bickering couple of Adam and Nate and insist that the MC actually chooses their own path). The “I don’t understand” shtick, however, is going to get old really quick, as will the SPOILER AHEAD! hot and cold, push/pull routine that is dumped on us in book 3, which appears to be thrown is as a bucket of ice water to remind us that Mason is an asshole presently incapable of feeling anything other than a need to bang (for now). Given that M is marked as a very slow burn and feelings won’t come till late in the games, I have a feeling that M is going to become A on steroids–just with some sex thrown in for those who want something a bit more mature feeling than A’s teen angst fest.
I really wish the MC could make out with Bobby right in A’s face. My A-mancer wouldn’t do it, but I’d play a MC that would just to see A’s stone face crack for a moment. The other plus to A in the LT is that A actually gives some solid signs they want the MC, at least more than what the MC gets in A’s solo route.
I want that car to be gone. It feels like there’s a damned romance with that car because Sera is so attached to it and I want the option to break up with it. Two of my MCs would set it on fire and throw a party to celebrate its death if they had a chance. One of them wants a motorcycle and the other would prefer walking or riding a skateboard to work over driving that deathtrap piece of shit. The other two couldn’t care less, and one gets sentimentally attached to pieces of lint, so it’s no surprise she’s attached to that bucket of bolts.
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I’m not a fan of the overly clingy yandere kinds where they will like kill anyone who so much as looks at you
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Okay so I’m aware that this is an unpopular opinion but…
Personally, I’m not a fan of Fitzie. Honestly, I’d even go so far as to say Fitzie makes me enjoy Jolly Good less than I would’ve otherwise I think. I’m just not a fan of the way they expect you to just go along with whatever they say and how pissy they get if you don’t (not saying it isn’t realistic, just not a fan). Like I get that Fitzie has had issues w employers in the past and they’re trying to take back some semblance of control with how they treat the MC in a relationship, but also it just feels really gross and toxic to me.
Obviously that could be because it’s a whole employer/employee thing which is already a bit dodgy to me, but I absolutely loved Rory in Tally Ho and their romance. Probably because you could tell they cared about the MC right from the get go, while with Fitzie I still can’t really tell how he feels about the MC and if he’s ever gonna stop treating the MC like an idiot to push around.
Tbh the only way I can do a Fitzie route without cringing is by sticking him with an MC that cares way more about their reputation and actively tells Fitzie off (as far as possible, while still staying on the romance route). I just can’t stand upperhand!Fitzie I suppose.
Like my dislike for Fitzie goes so deep I try to trigger the Fitzie Crush variable every time I play (especially when I’m not romancing them) just so I can see them get crushed when the MC hopefully gets the chance to reject them and break their heart in book two. Also really can’t wait to fire Fitzie in book two my lord, I’d rather have an uptight, reputation obsessed Starling over Fitzie any day.
It’s okay, you can say Jun/Ko.
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i mean she’s a very good example but there are others i just find it very very off-putting and unhealthy
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Strangely enough, Jun grew on me. I like the dynamics, previous history, sweet juicy drama and the ability to headbutt him into submission each time he tries to pull any of his early chapter tricks. I denied each and every attempt, have beaten him in ice skating (which is amazing, I adore ice skating) and the relationship between ronin and him only got better once he lessened the amount of crap.
But mainly I like Jun because I don’t like anyone else. I started playing SoH in fifteen and I hoped to romance Masashi - I genuinely liked him, I hoped for a nice prince and the pauper vibe. But I get it would be creepy. Toshio… eh? He’s okay, but I don’t vibe with him and the dynamic is too… mild. No spiciness.
But, truth be told, I like spicy romances, constant bickering, opposite sides, medium versions of tsunderes, equal MC and RO. I hate feeling like a doormat, even if I pushed for romance myself. Either give me rivalmance a - la Fenris and mage Hawke, either give me begrudging respect and inconvenient attraction or give me death.
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I despise Junko as a person, and I say this as someone who likes morally dark characters. But as a character, I find that she’s really well written and I like her romance route for specifically that reason. The fact that there isn’t much development with the other characters is part of that but I’m also curious to see how her route will end up and how her characterization changes throughout it. We see parts of that near the end of the fourth book and hopefully will get more of it. That, and the possible pregnancy thing should ratchet up the tension
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[quote="vera, post:832, [quote=“vera, post:832, topic:114033, full:true”]
But, truth be told, I like spicy romances, constant bickering, opposite sides, medium versions of tsunderes, equal MC and RO. I hate feeling like a doormat, even if I pushed for romance myself. Either give me rivalmance a - la Fenris and mage Hawke, either give me begrudging respect and inconvenient attraction or give me death.
[/quote]
I get that but im not talking a rivalmance like mage hawke and fenris i mean like anders threatening to drown kirkwall in blood if it gets between you two
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Oh same. I adore Rory to bits, she’s just a funny character all around and it really doesn’t help that I’m a big sucker for pining subordinate and soft master.
Then Fitz came around, insulted my previous Mc and immediately stated that they made the rules. Lost interest in them almost instantly lmao
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I love and hate fitzie… Agreed that fitzie is the most annoying character (upperhand fitzie is even worse) and he treats mc like a doormat just becasue they care for him. But the way the story potrays his character is realistic and thats why i cant fully hate him. I feel that other ros in the book cant hold a candle to fitzie when it comes to character development and complexity and thats why we love and hate him.
Also hoping that in book 2 we can make fitzie realize that if he keeps treating the mc like a puppet they will eventually lose interest and sack him. And yes I make my mc have the upperhand and refute fitzie’s advances every chance they get.
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The A path in Wayhaven is starting to get on my nerves a bit. In the book 3 demo you have the option to pat their arm twice in the first chapter or two, and it says they look down at the spot with arched brows.
Arched brows, really? Firstly, I feel like the author over uses that expression and secondly, considering book 2 ends with the detective either holding hands or putting their head on A’s shoulder so why is book 3 A still arching them brows/pulling away over physical contact?
And then later on we finally have the option to break contact first but it’s written in a way that’s supposed to kinda make us feel bad afterwards.
I still like and will play the A path, but there is a difference between a slow burn and going in circles. And so far it is feeling like the latter.
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