I'm Sorry, But I Think We Should See Other People - ROs You Hate

[HarrisPS]

@Zyrios

If you don’t… She barely puts in even a token effort, and you have to convince her to do even that much. And when it comes time for you to escape (or not), if you turned her down, I’m spite of her claims that she’ll still help you out and totally isn’t going to punish you for turning her down… she leaves you to the wolves. Her option is greyed out and says something to the effect of, “Ferrado won’t help me because she doesn’t like me enough.”

I’m not picking on you, and I’m sure it wouldn’t change your mind on the character, but this isn’t technically true - it’s based on romancing them, planning to be bought by them, or having a high enough relationship with them. I had to go and check because last time I played, my MC turned them down firmly but I was sure I was still able to ask for help so - yes, their help is conditional based on your earlier choices but it’s not as narrow as only happening if you’re romancing them.

(Carry on, citizens)
(I would absolutely enjoy seeing more of your homework, whether or not I personally agree with the conclusions!)

[vera]

Ferrado was especially LMAO if you don’t support the rebellion at all and bet your cards on getting bought out, which my character tried his best to do.

He kept talking about power imbalance, about rebellion, about some other inane stuff and my MC, I imagine, was looking at him like that Willy Wonka meme and asking himself “how many skulls do I have to crack in order for you to buy me?”. Optionally “I can’t imagine why you can’t bend me over already, we both know the nature of this arrangement”.

Cause, like, he dresses ya up and shit! He openly flashes you and Eryx in front of other nobles and probably would have kept doing so despite your discomfort. He clearly intends to keep you in a position of a beloved skull cracker slash favourite courtesan and it doesn’t take a genius to put pretty dresses and him constantly flashing you around to other people together.

So we play in tune, and what do we get. POWER IMBALANCE. Ugh. Can’t he be less… obvious in his intentions if he has no desire to screw us?

Oh, and the origin chances get even more fun if you actively play as less than illustrious person. Mine was a war criminal who dug out his own grave by engaging into a duel to the death. Yet he still got flashbacks about some nameless kid getting killed in his first fight, had an option to be afraid of fighting and blood (really now) and was outright forced into rebellion subplot by the end of the game.

[Zyrios]

Ah, my mistake, then. Must have been how I played it that influenced it (I, uh, kinda really didn’t give Ferrado much breathing room).

Still though, in the moment, it read an awful lot like she had gone back on her word at the last moment, even if that was more or less entirely my fault.

@vera

Ugh. Can’t he be less… obvious in his intentions if he has no desire to screw us?

Oh no no, Ferrado absolutely wants to have sex, that’s part of why she cries herself to sleep if you shut down her romance.

She’s just, uh… very vocal about that whole power imbalance thing. Constantly.

Also, poking around in the code, there’s an option to tell Ferrado that you’re only interested in the sex and have no interest in her romantically, and the response is her saying, “That sounds cool, but maybe some other time,” a.k.a. “Not tonight, honey, I have a headache.”

[HarrisPS]

I mean, if an NPC wants something that isn’t just no-strings, that’s OK though? I like when they specify a preference in one direction or another. As with Eryx - they’re someone for whom sex in a relationship is important.

I read Ferrado as getting a lot of self-worth/self-image from being “not like the other girls Illustrious” and being quite wrapped up in that self-perception; I think they are also anxious about their standing in relation to the MC and a bit worried about doing something silly because of having fallen too quickly/too hard. Which kind of makes them more human for me. I guess I find it a bit funny that they are mentioned in the same breath as ROs who horribly mistreat MCs or are otherwise mean to them, because they are too nice It feels like in some cases there was an expectation that this character would be more of a dom kind of figure who would step on the MC because of the way other Illustrious are presented, but then when they weren’t, that was disappointing?

I genuinely don’t want to be argumentative (I love seeing character interpretations that differ from mine) and I don’t tend to keep up with this thread, but I am very curious - I would love to hear about examples of very high-status ROs with a lower-status MC that people who didn’t like Ferrado enjoy. That’s maybe beyond the scope of this thread, but I try to glean any tidbits of interesting information from player opinions that I can from wherever possible.

[RenataC]

For me (and I must say Ferrado is the only romance that I didn’t enjoy in Heart of the Battle) the problem isn’t their higher status, but the nature of their relationship with the MC. Not all power imbalance talks in the world would lessen the fact that, well, MC is a slave and this person is one of those responsible for funding the system that got MC in this position. I got very uncomfortable in some scenes with Ferrado because I was forced to go to their home, and even if I didn’t manifest any interest in them - I only was polite and that’s all - this person says that is interested in me. Was I supposed to feel bad when Ferrado says they probably will cry after the rejection? I feel bad for the people being forced to fight to the death in the Arena, not for a rich person who is sad because they got rejected, sorry. I liked the other ROs, and I liked the story, but I didn’t play it any other way than supporting the rebels. To be honest, even if it’s a fantasy setting, I wasn’t able to ignore my beliefs in this story. Themes like slavery, even when it’s fictional, don’t leave much space for this, at least for me.

[Dragomer]

@Zyrios

For starters, she is entirely insistent that the only two ways you have of getting out of the arena are to be bought by an Illustrious (read: Coritan noble caste), or to be granted a pardon and integrated into Coritan society by way of exceptional performance and good behavior.

To be fair, her overall point is that those two are the only way to get out and have a good life, as a former noble who’s not welcome back home, it’s pretty logical of her to see a life on the run as not an option or even worse than the Arena.

The fact that at the end of the game the whole Gladiator Arena is in no state to bother chasing after an escapee is something she couldn’t foresee.

@Zyrios

Also… she lost one fight. Granted, it was a big fight, and the victors did terrible things to her, but like, you’re leading a rebellion against tyranny.

Once again, to be fair, like 99% of rebellions DO get broken at that point, it’s done because it works and only very few humans can just get back up after that.

And generally those who do get back up from it do it after rescue while surrounded by allies, not while imprisoned.

The problem for me was the complet 180 the route takes if you do reignite her fire, because dealing with a raging ‘rebel’ who act like more like someone with anger issues than anything else just isn’t my thing compared to the much calmer ‘defeated’ Remi.

@Zyrios

But Dragomer in particular, they REALLY don’t like Ferrado.

In my defense, nothing make me go in circle more than wasted potentials and characters being gutted just to insert morality tales while I’m playing a romance game (which mean the characters are the most important part).

@vera

Ferrado was especially LMAO if you don’t support the rebellion at all and bet your cards on getting bought out, which my character tried his best to do.

It’s even funnier if you do like me and have your character be like ‘Well, I did the crime, I kinda deserve the sentence but if something good pass by, why not try?’. So you have all those characters trying to bribe my character with pledging support or help on stuff I NEVER showed any interest into in my whole playthrough.

@HannahPS

because they are too nice

I wouldn’t say the problem with Ferado is that she’s too nice, it’s that she says things socially acceptable for someone in 2023 on twitter, down to supporting the vague rebellion that’s literally against her own regime but is still and conduct business as a Roman consul in an empire that practice slavery and gladiator fights more consistently brutal than even Rome itself had so you get the worst of both world where you don’t get the benefit of ‘Social Justice Ferado’ where she just free you and you don’t get the benefit of ‘Triumvirate Ferado’ where she just bitch slap the Wizard asshole for daring to put a scratch on her favorite eye candy.

So you’re just stuck with a weird paradox character who just doesn’t do much.

[Zyrios]

@Dragomer

To be fair, her overall point is that those two are the only way to get out and have a good life, as a former noble who’s not welcome back home, it’s pretty logical of her to see a life on the run as not an option or even worse than the Arena.

The fact that at the end of the game the whole Gladiator Arena is in no state to bother chasing after an escapee is something she couldn’t foresee.

And that’s fair, I do admit. And certainly, she and Remi have both seen their fair share of failed escape attempts, which have come down negatively on their necks as a consequence, so it does make sense that she’d be inclined to try and talk you down from the ledge.

I do still feel, however, that after a certain point, regardless of how much she likes the MC, if they have stubbornly insisted on searching for a means to escape in spite of all her warnings, that same attitude of, “I don’t agree but certainly won’t try and stop you” that she displays with others should start coming into effect again. In particular, an MC who, like mine, doesn’t really like her in the first place and isn’t putting in much effort for her sake - it’s been made clear beyond a shadow of doubt that we’re not friends, and I haven’t exactly been throwing my hat in the ring for her, I feel like she should be more than happy to let me screw around and find out in that instance.

@Dragomer

Once again, to be fair, like 99% of rebellions DO get broken at that point, it’s done because it works and only very few humans can just get back up after that.

And generally those who do get back up from it do it after rescue while surrounded by allies, not while imprisoned.

Also fair. I’m speaking more from the perspective of someone spoiled by fantasy rebellions that just keep soldiering on in spite of the atrocities thrown at them, that’s primarily why I hold Remi to a, perhaps unreasonably, higher standard. Given how the rebellion plot angle turns out in this story, though, I honestly feel like it wouldn’t have damaged her character arc that much harder for her to have had her passion be bruised, but still very much be in the fight.

@Dragomer

The problem for me was the complet 180 the route takes if you do reignite her fire, because dealing with a raging ‘rebel’ who act like more like someone with anger issues than anything else just isn’t my thing compared to the much calmer ‘defeated’ Remi.

Yeah, ditto. Like I said, it probably wouldn’t have hurt her to come back cautious, but still jonesing for justice… but not like that. I wasn’t exactly looking to trade Sad Remi for The Only Thing They Fear Is Remi.

[HarrisPS]

@Dragomer

I wouldn’t say the problem with Ferado is that she’s too nice, it’s that she says things socially acceptable for someone in 2023 on twitter, down to supporting the vague rebellion that’s literally against her own regime but is still and conduct business as a Roman consul in an empire that practice slavery and gladiator fights more consistently brutal than even Rome itself had so you get the worst of both world where you don’t get the benefit of ‘Social Justice Ferado’ where she just free you and you don’t get the benefit of ‘Triumvirate Ferado’ where she just bitch slap the Wizard asshole for daring to put a scratch on her favorite eye candy.

So you’re just stuck with a weird paradox character who just doesn’t do much.

I would say that it isn’t a historical game, and there are a bunch of things about the setting that depart from Roman values and way of life - but I see where you’re coming from and appreciate your thoughts. Thank you!

[Zyrios]

@Dragomer

So you’re just stuck with a weird paradox character who just doesn’t do much.

I’m gonna piggyback on this point for my own reasoning:

I mentioned earlier that I just couldn’t take Ferrado seriously, and this is largely why. She constantly makes bold claims about supporting the rebel cause and standing up and fighting for the less fortunate in the arena and making real change in an exploitative, cruel system, but thanks to both her perpetual excuse of “power imbalance” (look, lady, flexing your political chops might cause harm on the way to improving people’s lot in life, sure, but at least you’re actually doing something, which is much more laudable than sitting on your thumbs and being scared of causing a wildfire to help a new society bloom) and the potentiality of you not liking her or wanting to be bought by her, she instead spends more of her time waffling about and making token gestures here and there, at most.

And while I do concede now that I played so negatively that she put in the bare minimum of effort, the fact remains that how much of a damn she chooses to give about the cause depends on you. For someone who’s so supposedly invested in fighting for a good cause, she seems more than happy to just let the issue fester instead if you don’t give her a big enough push to do better - and fantasy story or not, someone who makes these bold, grandiose claims, but then backs off on them if not given enough of a motivation to make good on their word… that person is a fraud, plain and simple.

Fittingly, if you say her name fast enough, “fraud” is about what it sounds like.

This fraudulence continues into her romance: sure, wanting more than just sex is fine, I don’t begrudge her that. What I do begrudge her, however, is her presumptive attitude towards you, potentially acting against your wishes multiple times in rapid succession in the hopes that lavishing you in exorbitant wealth will be enough to get you to be okay with it; the fact that she tried this stunt once with Remi and got her ass burnt, and should therefore really know better than to think it’ll work the second time around; and also, once again, her laughable claim that she hasn’t been bought in by a fantasy she concocted of you in her mind.

I must again stress, she barely knows you at all. Prior to chapter four, she’s met you once, and that was on an inspection line where you were forced to be on your best behavior. Maybe you chose to be rebellious back then, but even still, she has one example - one - of seeing you in action, and is trying to claim that she knows you for the real you, and is truly interested in the real you.

That line was such a lie that it boggled my mind that she managed to say it with a straight face.

Ultimately, I don’t have a problem with the noble who wants to change a rotten system, even at direct expense to themselves. I like that character arc, it’s fine when it’s done well. But with Ferrado, it has not been done well, in my mind.

[vera]

This stunt is especially hilarious if you’re very proactive in flirting with Ferrado. My character had no time to blush and stammer, he grabbed the bull by the horns and started digging a trench to Ferrado the second he saw him - and weirdly enough, he was quite receptive to this.

He certainly didn’t mind racy comments and ogling stares, he didn’t shy away from bold flirting and dressed up Eryx in stockings (really should check how the poly route goes with those two, I didn’t mind Eryx). But the second we’re alone and ready for some X-rated pastime, it’s “oh no, Camilo, power imbalance, I simply cannot do that after leading you on”.

[HarrisPS]

@Zyrios

once again, her laughable claim that she hasn’t been bought in by a fantasy she concocted of you in her mind.

I must again stress, she barely knows you at all.

see I think for me, I was like “that claim shows the character’s lack of self-awareness, this is a crush where they’ve built up a version of the MC in their head, and that flaw is something that makes them interesting to me” especially with the Remi situation previously. I think that ties into the holding back once they’re in a position to take things further - they realise that they’ve thrown their feelings at something unknown again. (I read the “crying to sleep” comment as a self deprecating joke, heh. Last time I played my character was very anti Ferrado and brushed them off at almost every chance.) But I can totally see why that doesn’t appeal to everyone.

[Midnight_Sloth]

I’ve got no new RO discourse of my own but you guys have to see how down bad the HG subreddit is rn

They're the complete opposite of this thread

They’re so unabashedly horny to the point that I can’t stop laughing. I fucking love those guys

[vera]

Each day I come there in hope to see another LI like Hawkins, but all I get is post-Tibet Jian Zhu…

[EvilChani]

I love the fact that they’re all looking for abuse and misery, but then in the middle, there’s just that one with the, “How about some recs where the ROs actually care about the MC???”

Good luck with that, buddy.

[vera]

He can have most of the bloody library, then. I was starving with my preference for mecha, but now I’m just miserable in my search for anything resembling my favourite waifu. It’s either nice, dickwad or Jun-tier, and neither is what I want.

[Zeom]

Ferrado got me so frustrated and bored that I didn’t finish the game.

[SnowPhoniex]

That first one is wild Jesus almighty……

[EvilChani]

It feels like that’s what A’s doing, only emotionally, instead of physically.

My husband thinks three of the four “romances” in Wayhaven are abusive. He says F is broken, but is not abusive to the MC in their path… but F is abusive to their friends (the way they behave in A and M’s routes, specifically, and how they think it’s funny to make things worse). He’s pretty on point.

[h_neptune]

That one in particular is a copypasta.

[Midnight_Sloth]

The “please, for the love of all that is good in this world” is so genuine it floored me when I found it