I, the Forgotten One Release Thread (1.2)

[filebkeg]

@Bacondoneright

I genuinely set out with the idea of exploring that trope from a more realistic lens and breaking down why it’s questionable IRL. And then I wrote Whiskey-Four where 86% of readers saw a big, fluttering red flag and charged straight toward it.

I declare myself guilty.

[starpendle]

Did a full playthrough during my vacation as a female marshal. Pretty happy how this run turned out, my first one pre-patch was rooough. I’m not sure if I made the right choices or you renovated the last battle with Rade entirely, was rather surprised how successful I was first try. The best I could do my first run was a stalemate (but I was also unused to army management I suppose).

Can’t bring myself to betray Elya, loved helping her grow. The scene made me proud lol.

endgame scene

Looking forward for the sequel!!

[Bacondoneright]

@fancyparadise

no one can be trusted in politics and marrying mc is different situation. it is political alliance.why would mc betray his own wife ? there is no reason for that.

@fsix

The same greed which caused them to betray in the first place. Why uphold an alliance if you can just murder your ally and take over their holdings? You can then marry with another “ally”.

I mean put yourself in Milon/Lada’s shoes. Here is this war veteran you are infatuated with, who then reveals themselves not to be stoic and deep, but rather deeply damaged. Said war veteran proceeds to then launch a coup for the throne against someone who trusted them. Said war veteran may then proceed to be many ruthless actions to keep the throne.

Infatuation fades. It always does. At what point does sense overwhelm feelings of attraction?

@BlindSwift

You can even Napoleon it and take the crown and do it yourself.

It’s ballsy, that’s for sure. But is it smart? Ehhh…

@Valixon

that got me to thinking while not currently important will our MCs or us as players ever find out that bit of history that lead to it? As well the history of what happened to the orgional forgotten one for whom we are named after? Title wise.

Nope. They’re the “Forgotten One” for a reason.

@Valixon

As well cohesion went down a lot quicker for myside though i suspect its more from the choices made than anything else at this moment.

I increased casualties for the loyalist side.

@fancyparadise

it looks like you just hate king mc path. that’s why you are talking like this.

It’s not that the Bastard King/Queen path is bad–I think it’s really, really interesting–it’s just, from a purely objective strategic standpoint, a really, really bad idea. I definitely have no intention of pigeon-holing you into a bad ending, but it’s going to be difficult.

@0Meletti

I honestly don’t see how a lot of people around here genuinely think the ursurper path will be good for the kingdom.

I sincerely hope the question asked during that route is a “is it worth it?” At what point is “getting my dues” no longer worth the bloodshed required.

@fancyparadise

sobik is dead and church says mc is king.

The archbishop of Wrido says the MC is the king.

@Phenrex

I’m so glad Bacon decided not to follow the “mentor dies to make the main character grow” trope, I was actually a bit worried since I thought it was overdone and I personally think of Darin died when the assassin was there it would quite literally break the Marshal.

I added as many death flags as possible and then subverted it. The artistic reasoning was to juxtapose the scenes of Darin’s kindness and gentleness toward the MC with the utter ruthlessness in how he dispatches the assassin. He opens up to the MC in one scene and stomps a dagger into a young man’s throat in the next.

The less artistic reason is that I really wanted to fuck with the readers.

@Snowflower

I’m also imagining the Holy Father saying something like “While you weren’t deserving of your dishonor before, you have certainly earned it now,” when asked about rehonoring Monarch!Marshal.

Miljenko’s final advice at the end of chapter 10 echoes this.

@0Meletti

It would be really cool/funny if the Holy Father is just a totaly chill guy.

I’ve tried to portray religion in a very nuanced light. There’s the scummy archbishop, sure, but there’s also Father Miljenko. The Catholic Church had some serious corruption problems (just look at the Avignon Papacy), but that doesn’t mean every Pope was evil or even unreasonable.

@Cataphrak

than another turn on the cycle of feudal power struggle which Elya’s reign in the company of a still-powerful nobility is likely to bring about.

It’s an interesting thought experiment to consider who is the best to support from a broad, human cost perspective. What would cost more lives–Rade’s subjugation of Kanton, the MC’s, or Elya’s? Lying down and letting Rade take the throne might spare the people of Wrido, but what about the six years of war after?

@Cataphrak

But if those assumptions hold, then the Bastard Monarch isn’t doomed to a bad ending - they may in fact be on track for becoming a genuinely positive figure not just in the immediate present of the setting, but for the trajectory of Kanton’s development for generations to come.

The Bastard King/Queen ending isn’t doomed to a bad ending, but it’s just as you said: there’s a hell of a lot of IFs. There’s a few more, too, and it depends on the MC’s successors. If the only thing keeping the country together and under this centralized structure is the MC’s sheer force of will, then upon their death, the vultures may begin to circle.

They might not even wait that long. What happens once the MC becomes too old to ride their horse? What happens if the man placed in charge of the army decides he would make a better ruler instead?

@Snowflower

(but he does acknowledge that getting there is going to be supremely difficult and it is going to be much worse before it gets better).

So is it worth the cost, then?

@Cataphrak

Of course, the idea would be to break the nobility by using the succession war as justification

A favorite tactic of mine in Crusader Kings. Wait until the vassals revolt (or even provoke an uprising), then imprison them, strip them of their titles, and replace them with loyalists.

@Cataphrak

She doesn’t have to break the nobility the way the Bastard Monarch would, because she has enough legitimacy to start with.

Which might make her the best option if your only goal is to prevent the loss of life.

@Phenrex

Though I’ll admit that the ending felt really fast with how the pacing was up until that point? Like you go from barely holding hands to 'lets go to bone zone.’

I wasn’t trying to imply anything sexual at all. It was much more of a “we can’t keep pining forever” moment. I just find it a little unrealistic that two people would dance around the question endlessly.

@Cataphrak

I think Rade’s main source of legitimacy is the same as the Marshal’s: he’s got a big army and knows how to use it. “I don’t want to fight them because they’ll beat the shit out of me” is a valid - if fleeting - source of legitimacy.

Emphasis on fleeting. If something happens to the army or the marshal’s ability to lead it, then another war is inevitable.

@Phenrex

That was just cuddling?

I don’t even think it got that far. I’ll have to reread, but I think there’s only hugging. Vertical cuddling, if you will.

@Urban

If the Ruler MC marries Lada or Milon, they can have a good foundation for their future power base

The issue arises if Lada or Milon’s fear and mistrust for the MC overrules their love.

@filebkeg

I assume that our approach to this position will be an important point in the sequel, but still, questions questions questions…

Oh absolutely. Nobles will be scrambling over themselves to fill that role. Hell, maybe if the MC loses their dishonored status and does a good of enough job, they might be allowed the keep the throne.

@Sujan_Dhakal

is it intended that you always lose a fourth of your light cavalry during the attack of the crossing in chapter 5? You’d think if you had a lot of guys, the percentage would scale downwards somewhat

Good point. I fix

@fsix

That the battle doesn’t wipe out smaller cavalry unit completely is more of a mercy on author’s part than anything else.

And fast horses that don’t have to lug around riders.

@NGC-1097

I feel like I lose a bunch of Rangers and Light Calvary whenever I pick it.

Yes, but you keep the rest of your army intact. If you shoot for the less aggressive options, you can keep most of your army completely untouched.

@Snowflower

Who is your favorite secondary character of ITFO?

I’m weirdly a sucker for Lord Moren for reasons I cannot explain

@Saint.C03

Also, am I the only who thinks he’s a bit of Mary Sue?

Velinor? I guess that depends entirely on your definition of Mary Sue, but I’d disagree with it.

@KZV

but she’s a duke’s sister and all of that independence might go away if she has to accept a political marriage to some nobleman who expects her to stay safely at home popping out heirs.

Exactly. It’s not that she’s trying to avoid marriage, it’s that she wants a good husband. Preferably a hot and interesting one, too.

@anon12679161

I think you are misunderstanding the term adoptive here. It doesn’t denote that she is the one who was adopted, it just defines their brother/sister relationship as an adoptive one.

^^^ Milon is the adopted one.

@anon12679161

EDIT: Actually just learnt something new.

And now I have, too, lol

@Nevantyr

who’s the adopted one oh dear author?

Milon

@Snowflower

Screenshots of Milon’s disappearing/reappearing leg injury

I swear to god, it’s Milon’s leg and these damn zombie cavalrymen that have given me the most grief in terms of coding.

@Aselia

Though my tone is accusatory, I’'ve yet hope that what I perceive as a cheap trick wasn’t something you had done with ill intent.

I… wasn’t setting out to trick people.

@Arkuja

It just sucks not being represented.

And I understand that, but the story behind the romance in ITFO is a little convoluted. In my very, very early drafts, there was no romance. Then I figured adding the ability to reciprocate Milon’s and Lada’s advances was a good idea. I was very uncomfortable with writing romance, so I wanted the fewest number of ROs as possible.

I ended up adding Obren as an RO option retrospectively about halfway through the writing process and was simply too far in to go adding extra female characters just so they can be romanced.

@apple

Is there actually anything wrong with putting him in charge?

His lack of legitimacy means that, even if the crown doesn’t oppose him, others will. I think Darin touches on this. If might is the only thing supporting someone’s claim, then a bunch of others are going to shoot their own shot. Even if they lose in the end, that’s still a long, brutal civil war. Elya’s legitimacy makes her a beacon to rally around and put a decisive end to the conflict.

@filebkeg

I declare myself guilty.

I don’t judge. Red flags are just interesting to write.

@starpendle

The best I could do my first run was a stalemate (but I was also unused to army management I suppose).

And a stalemate’s not bad at all, considering you’re likely outnumbered two-to-one. You’ll still do a sizable amount of damage to Rade’s army, too, but you just don’t get the glory of a full victory.

[filebkeg]

@Bacondoneright

Oh absolutely. Nobles will be scrambling over themselves to fill that role. Hell, maybe if the MC loses their dishonored status and does a good of enough job, they might be allowed the keep the throne.

Oh dear… Here we go again. After feeling that I was slowly getting over my power-hungry ways, you throw me straight into the fire, Bacon.

[Snowflower]

@Bacondoneright

I swear to god, it’s Milon’s leg and these damn zombie cavalrymen that have given me the most grief in terms of coding.

Milon has a necromantic magical armor from Old Ravaria that allows for the healing and resurrection of the wearer (it worked to heal his leg), and full sets of this is what many cavalrymen wear into battle so that they will be resurrected if they die.

[filebkeg]

@Bacondoneright

A favorite tactic of mine in Crusader Kings. Wait until the vassals revolt (or even provoke an uprising), then imprison them, strip them of their titles, and replace them with loyalists.

Vassal revolts are scary only at first and if you don’t have competent commanders. In reality they are a golden oportunity to re-organize the house and perhaps remind those pesky counts about the divine right of kings.

[KZV]

@Bacondoneright

It’d be good for establishing his new allies as a threat as well, and establishing the difficulties of coalition warfare. Maybe one of the flanks of the army gets goaded into charging and is encircled and destroyed by the enemy horse archers.

Honestly, there are times when just surviving is a victory. I think “managed to retreat without routing” would be a perfectly fine victory condition, even if you lost the battle itself by author fiat. IMO, Rade really needs to win some battles to feel like a legitimate threat. In this game, his losses are fine. A lot of them aren’t even his losses, they’re just incompetent underlings getting stomped. The siege is him, but it’s sort of a case of ‘put up or shut up’ where he doesn’t have that many options available and doesn’t even know if the Marshal is in charge of the opposition. The one battle he really does lose is the last battle, and that’s fine.

@Bacondoneright

And then I wrote Whiskey-Four where 86% of readers saw a big, fluttering red flag and charged straight toward it.

I think part of this might be that she’s the only woman in the demo that’s up who really shows an interest that way. Castle sort of feels like an “RO in name only” where I’ve never really felt like she was that interested in Whiskey.

@Bacondoneright

I think it’d be weird to spare Vedran in combat only to kill him later when you don’t have any excuses

I think it could work if there was a trial or something like that. There’s a substantial difference between “shot in the street by the sheriff” and “sentenced to hang by the judge”.

[Snowflower]

@KZV

I think it could work if there was a trial or something like that.

In Ending 2, Elya could accuse him of high treason and dooming the Queen to a fate worse than death and the Magister Militum to death (if they are both women, then she’d say they both faced a fate worse than death) at the hands of Rade and his army. Basically saying that Vedran shot first in the kinslaying/kin-dooming. But no matter how neatly it’s done, Vedran’s execution instead of his death in the Marshal’s self-defense (or “self-defense” but no one can prove otherwise) is almost certainly going to follow the Marshal and Elya around even if they avoid the worst PR penalty.

@filebkeg He can become enough of a not-dipshit that he can leave the cell? I will play that route a lot in Book 2.

@Bacondoneright Does Vedran, if he survives, have an epilogue? I could have sworn he had one pre-patch.

[filebkeg]

While I killed him in my “canon” playthrought (the one to be carried to book 2), it would be rather neat to see Vedran getting dishonored and having to work his way up to redemption. Maybe the Marshal can even become his mentor in this process.

[Arkuja]

@Bacondoneright

And I understand that, but the story behind the romance in ITFO is a little convoluted. In my very, very early drafts, there was no romance. Then I figured adding the ability to reciprocate Milon’s and Lada’s advances was a good idea. I was very uncomfortable with writing romance, so I wanted the fewest number of ROs as possible.

I ended up adding Obren as an RO option retrospectively about halfway through the writing process and was simply too far in to go adding extra female characters just so they can be romanced.

As I said, I understand why it wasn’t included. I just hope in ITUO there will be that representation. That being said, I loved ITFO and will be reading ITUO either way.

[idonotlikeusernames]

@Bacondoneright

And then I wrote Whiskey-Four where 86% of readers saw a big, fluttering red flag and charged straight toward it.

But Whiskey himself might be quite a bit into red flag territory for us ordinary humans as well…it takes two to tango and Whiskey is himself just as capable of having a romantic moment amidst the carnage as Uly is. Shonin too would be a bit of a red flag for normal, well-adjusted people.

In a similar vein V from Cyberpunk is probably also a walking red flag, no matter how cute they may look on the outside and that was even before adding the Silverhand personality construct into the mix.

[Urban]

@Bacondoneright

Place yourself in Darin’s head. A very mentally unstable 24 year old just usurped the throne, throwing away most of the legitimacy of the royalist cause, and potentially dragging out the current ongoing civil war. In the man’s own words: “One succession crisis at a time”. I personally don’t think of it as “do what I want”, but more of a “stop being a dumb ass”.

Then if he helps Elya he is dragging out the civil war and adding one more succession crisis into the mix.
And what is “stop being a dumbass” then a way to say “do what I think is better”?

And “One succession crisis at a time” is just a way to sabotage the MC. If the MC doesn’t negotiate the possibility of getting the crown while he has some power, how is he going to negotiate after the war when he has nothing to offer? Just trust that Elya will be good and handle it to him?

And what about it the MC want to be the King of Kanton? That was the point chance the MC would ever have to actually get that, waiting after the war is over, wouldn’t be smart.

And if we want to prevent more death, the easiest way would be to side with Rade and force Elya to marry him. Still, I don’t think anyone would say that is a good option, even if it was the one that would prevent the most deaths.

[Sheepfarmer]

@Urban

Then if he helps Elya he is dragging out the civil war and adding one more succession crisis into the mix.

Not really, that’s the only succession crisis that’s happening that he can influence. I wouldn’t really describe it as a succession crisis either, Elya’s legitimacy isn’t in any question, it’s more of a civil war triggered by opportunistic nobles.

@Urban

And “One succession crisis at a time” is just a way to sabotage the MC. If the MC doesn’t negotiate the possibility of getting the crown while he has some power, how is he going to negotiate after the war when he has nothing to offer? Just trust that Elya will be good and handle it to him?

Assuming you are talking about the crown of Krorid, there isn’t really a point in Elya refusing? It puts someone with legitimacy on the throne of a nation that is probably going to try and take their independence anyways, and if you are not a dick to her, she can rely on your personal loyalty to her as her half-sibling. You are beloved enough that there’s unlikely to be a revolt against you, so everybody kinda wins?

[Urban]

@Sheepfarmer

Not really, that’s the only succession crisis that’s happening that he can influence. I wouldn’t really describe it as a succession crisis either, Elya’s legitimacy isn’t in any question, it’s more of a civil war triggered by opportunistic nobles.

If he helps Elya to escape prison, he is putting more fire into the woods. The MC had already dealt with Elya, without help she wouldn’t be a problem. Now there is only one way to solve the dispute between the siblings, with the death of the other. If what Derin wanted was to prevent more deaths, he failed.

@Sheepfarmer

Assuming you are talking about the crown of Krorid, there isn’t really a point in Elya refusing?

There is one, she can be the ruler. That is why she deflects your questions when you asks her about it.

@Sheepfarmer

You are beloved enough that there’s unlikely to be a revolt against you, so everybody kinda wins?

And who said she will give it to you because she loves you instead of keeping it for herself?
I think the story already showed that family ties aren’t that strong when power is involved.

[PurpleCritter]

What’s that quote that goes something like, “That couple has huge red flags, I hope they never break up so they don’t involve anyone else with it”?

[Arella]

…Would it happen to be this one? I’ve only got it saved because I totally don’t love red flags, no way. /s But yeah, it’s really perfect for Whiskey and Uly.

[PurpleCritter]

Yes that’s it!! Thank you for forwarding it, I’ll save it and keep it on hand too <3

[Sheepfarmer]

@Urban

There is one, she can be the ruler. That is why she deflects your questions when you asks her about it.

She deflects your question because it’s a bit of a pointless one at the current moment. You are embroiled in a civil war, you literally don’t have the time to decide upon the next ruler of a region that already has one. Even if she promises you Krorid then, circumstances can change super easily during the civil war; they might revolt, meaning it’s no longer her’s to give; there might be another family that claims the title. It’s a lot of unknowns to deal with and think through when you already have a life-threatening situation at hand that you need to deal with first, before that matter is discussed.

@Urban

And who said she will give it to you because she loves you instead of keeping it for herself?

Why would she? It’s a region that doesn’t want to be ruled by her, and after a fractuous civil war she will likely have bigger things to worry about than both spurning her top military commander who commands the loyalty of the army, and trying to keep Krorid from revolting, or trying to crush it if it does.

@Urban

I think the story already showed that family ties aren’t that strong when power is involved.

If anything it shows Elya being the exception to that rule? She defends you against the baron, she supports you throughout the story pretty much unconditionally when politically it’s poor to centralize so much under their leading general(you can literally coup her because of this). She thanks you repeatedly for your help and promises to show more appreciation later. I really don’t know where you are getting the reading that Elya’s some sort of cold manipulator who plans to give the MC nothing for their efforts/refuse to give control over Krorid, especially since likely giving the MC Krorid solves two problems at once with virtually no drawbacks?

[maximo_caseres]

@Bacondoneright

It’s not that the Bastard King/Queen path is bad–I think it’s really, really interesting–it’s just, from a purely objective strategic standpoint, a really, really bad idea. I definitely have no intention of pigeon-holing you into a bad ending, but it’s going to be difficult.

That’s okay, whoever said being in power would be easy?
I want my evil ending to leave the kingdom in shambles until I end the entirety of the Stiedry family and crush Rade’s little rebellion.

@Bacondoneright

I sincerely hope the question asked during that route is a “is it worth it?” At what point is “getting my dues” no longer worth the bloodshed required.

Looking at my tactician MC who got all “Butchery upon the walls”, “The atiming river massacre” and “The decisive blow” achievements, sitting at an approximate 18000 kills
And many more will fall…

And on the other hand there is my leadership MC who got “Total Loyalty” and is sitting at like -2 jealousy with a 4 strength Elya.

[Urban]

@Sheepfarmer

She deflects your question because it’s a bit of a pointless one at the current moment. You are embroiled in a civil war, you literally don’t have the time to decide upon the next ruler of a region that already has one. Even if she promises you Krorid then, circumstances can change super easily during the civil war; they might revolt, meaning it’s no longer her’s to give; there might be another family that claims the title. It’s a lot of unknowns to deal with and think through when you already have a life-threatening situation at hand that you need to deal with first, before that matter is discussed

And that is the perfect moment for the MC to negotiate that. The moment that she actually needs to give something to the MC if she wants to win.
That exactly what Lord Moren did, he didn’t wait until the war is over to negotiate the independence, because at that time Ekya would just say no.

@Sheepfarmer

Why would she? It’s a region that doesn’t want to be ruled by her, and after a fractuous civil war she will likely have bigger things to worry about than both spurning her top military commander who commands the loyalty of the army, and trying to keep Krorid from revolting, or trying to crush it if it does.

Are you really asking why a monarch would want to keep a huge chunk of land to themselves? Do you think she wouldn’t go to war? She is already planning on how to not lose Krorid even before they get independence.

After she wins the civil war, she will not need the MC anymore, he will not have any bargaining chips to give to her.

@Sheepfarmer

If anything it shows Elya being the exception to that rule?

No, because she is making sure you don’t get Krorid.
And she doesn’t need to be a cold manipulator to want to keep Krorid under her rule.

@Sheepfarmer

especially since likely giving the MC Krorid solves two problems at once with virtually no drawbacks?

But there is nothing showing she wants that. And there is a drawback of her losing power.