Or he asked people to only test for bugs, continuity errors, and so forth. Or the people testing thought their job was to only test for bugs and that they weren’t allowed to comment on the story. Any number of things could have happened.
But that’s the thing. I didn’t pay for the next episode’s excitement. I paid for the excitement and enjoyment of this game. I’m not investing in an uncertain future. I was paying for a product that failed to deliver and only leaves vague promises of improvement. If the story really couldn’t stand on it’s own weight, he shouldn’t have released it and claimed it was a finished product.
All three of the Heroes Rise games stood on their own in addition to forming an enjoyable series. This game fails to do the former and it’s up in the air if it’ll do the latter.
I also find your claim that the big showdown was epic to be…strange. Did we play the same game? I never felt any kind of danger for my MC, though I barely cared what happened to him at that point regardless. I also never felt stressed or carefully considered my options against the Voiceless, all the correct options were fairly obvious unlike in Heroes Rise where enemies had certain counters against particular manifestations of your powers. They weren’t a threat, they were an annoyance that was in the way of me killing Miss Boss.
Using CoG to teach others is all well and good, but outright deceiving people is not. The game was advertised as a game about Superheroes, going into it expecting Superhero antics is not unrealistic. Had this been advertised as a game about social discrimination with the backdrop of the Heroes Rise world, that would have been fine.
The fact that we’re highly critical of his games means nothing. One can be both critical and supportive. I don’t think anyone in this thread actually thinks Sergi’s a bad writer, simply that he could use some improvement, and considering how good HeroFall was we are rightfully worried he’s slipping back into his old habits that took an entire trilogy to break out of. The forums may be for the fans, but an author not utilizing them for feedback from their main audience is abnormal. Trying to say that the Choice of Game forum members are not the main audience of games posted directly on the Choice of Games site is also a pretty weak argument. Do you actually have any examples of major dissonance between sales and forum opinion? As far as I can tell Zombie Exodus, Robots, and Sabres are all the most popular games on the forums and are easily the best selling.
No heros don’t fight injustice, they fight villians. Superman didn’t go to Mexico and build sustainable housing, that would be one boring ass comic book. He fought General Zod. Daredevil did not fight for awareness for the blind, he fought Kingpin. One kind of conflict is interesting, another is boring. That’s the difference.
With the critiques going around, I do think we should be careful with how we talk about the discrimination storyline. There is a difference between expressing dissatisfaction with the focus on it and how it is executed and mocking stories about discrimination that the author may have based on what he has experienced.
I think it’s best when you can combine these two things in a superhero story. Injustice is such a fickle thing and I think we’re floating on two extremes in these views. Most of the time, villains in superhero stories tend to personify the injustices that the hero’s fighting and the conflict molds itself around that. Daredevil’s a perfect example of that. Kingpin’s status and ability to pretty much be untouchable by the law personifies almost everything that Murdock is against, all the injustices he wants to correct. (haha that’s all i’m gonna say on that for the fact that i actually don’t know that much about Daredevil)
But, yeah, I agree that we should tread carefully around some of the critiques. We’ve been pretty respectful of Zachary and his game, so far, and the criticism has been pretty constructive without being harmful to anyone. Things have been pretty awesome, so far, and the discussions have been engaging and enjoyable. We should definitely try to keep it at that level. D:
I beta test games. (Or at least did when I was well enough to). Someone please, feel free to start a general beta-testing thread and I’ll contribute in more depth about my process if you like.
I almost always do give feedback on how a storyline effects me. I give feedback on things like intersectionality, if I feel something is too heavy handed and that sort of thing. I’ve actually found Zachary Sergi’s one of the best authors in responding to my feedback. I know he reads the beta-test feedback, as does Choice of Games. They do take it into consideration, even if they don’t do everything that’s listed in it, it doesn’t mean our opinions aren’t valued. Just as they’re reading this thread.
@P_Tigras I played a small amount of one of the beta versions of Redemption Season. I found it immensely triggering, for reasons not actually discussed in this thread, and so I won’t actually be playing the full game. I don’t know if the storyline I found so upsetting is still there, of if it’s been changed. I did leave feedback on it, but I was unable to do any further testing.
I am still interested in the world, and interested in the game, so I’ve been reading this thread to find out what’s happened.
I already gave an example, the first Heroes Rise game, was heavily criticised on the forums. It is also one of their most popular games. Have a look at the Heroes Rise facebook page, in contrast to the comments here. There’s so many people who absolutely love the games.
I think we’ve got a unique insight here, given that we are the most passionate about the games, and often we get to see under the engines of them, so to speak. I’m not saying anyone’s opinions aren’t valid, just we’re a small, vocal part of a larger whole.
I know that this thread wouldn’t be so long, and that people wouldn’t be posting what they did if they weren’t actually invested in the Heroes Rise series.
It’s not abnormal for writers not to read every review, not to read every single piece of feedback they get. Actually I think that sort of thing tends to be discouraged, since then you have things like the time Anne Rice started replying to feedback on Amazon.
Choice of Games staff play a very important role in shaping all of the official games that are written. They have heavy involvement in the whole game-writing process. They’re reading this thread, and that’s far more important than the author doing so, because it means they can take it into consideration for all of the games they’re making. We’re not going unheard.
Just for clarification when I was talking about hired beta testing, it has been just that, hiring beta testing, not the people of the forum who like me beta free just because we love the games. External beta is important because we could see how casuals may think about it. Sergei is one of my favorite writers here and yes I am yes, Icritical with the games he made, because I like it, If I actually don’t like something I don’t care even in post comments about that game. I think he focused too much on the discrimination and too little on building and with our hero. I think I would like the game even so heavy it is in propaganda if we had more e insight of character development and personality. Don’t tell me about the beach scene with jk. Show me the care and sense of empathy with her in the beach. That would be a good starting place for game and suddenly our sister have and attack and have to go to the fortune cookie heal girl who gives the order of participate in the tv show. Character just feel predetermined and that kills the illusion of choice for me, and too much you feeling this even if stats or my choices show otherwise. No enough show me.
As far as I’m aware, Choice of Games do not hire beta-testers. The beta-testers, are those of us on the forums who do it for free.
Ah, I thought they had for official games. Maybe I am mistaken Cog with Derelit or others who actually pay for professional beta testing. In some cases I think a external site beta could be good to see casual people perspective on a game. I have beta some games Including Versus and some other ZS games and he is supportive with feedback from people.
I tried playing through this using an import from one of the other heroes I’ve run through the original trilogy and it’s just painfully boring. There have been games of distinctly mixed quality from CoG but this is the first game I genuinely regret buying.
I’ve read through the demo and I found it somewhat lacking. There was little, if any, buildup and therefore little motivation for me to actually buy the game. (Which, in my country, is more expensive than a full length novel)
Now don’t get me wrong. The writing is good, very solid. The world building was okay but was not as good as in Heroes Rise: Prodigy. Which is rather odd considering that Prodigy had the far harder job of introducing us to a whole new universe while Redemption Season is just introducing us to a place we’ve been to before and a ‘show’ we’ve participated in before, so it should be easier this time around. But no.
I have loved and thoroughly enjoyed the Heroes Rise Trilogy and was stoked when I found out that Redemption Season was out, but the demo disappointed me. The MC was very bland and I couldn’t bring myself to care for him/her (or whatever identity you choose). In fact, the only characters I found interesting were your partner, the astronaut (I’ve forgotten his name already. Sorry!) and JK, your sister.
It also spent far too much time and words telling me how I felt, telling me what happened, telling me this and that. But not showing. It seems that this wonderful author has forgotten the classic ‘show do not tell’ adage of storytelling. Telling me, and just doing that, will make me give the same amount of ^&@*s as I do when I read a History text book.
And I believe everyone has already said things about the overly done political and discrimination stuff. If I wanted to learn more about such things, I’d ask genuine LGBT people. Or read an article and watch the news. I do NOT really want to see them as main themes in games.
Can anyone still convince me that this game is still worth buying despite all of that? Is the full game any better, or is it more of the same?
It’s a good question. I missed Prodigal enough that I was thrilled to see her back, in whatever form. (She’s your new MeChip’s default personality.) At several points in the story, I fell into the writing and really enjoyed myself. The action scenes, the relationship with your sister, and the power set are all interesting, as are some of the themes. I wouldn’t have been so disappointed with the low points (which I think you pointed out really accurately, amazingly so for someone who only played a demo) if I didn’t expect such amazing things from the author and the series.
It’s up to you whether it’s worth the price of admission to gamble on this addition to the world. A lot is still up in the air - whether certain characters will come back, whether you’ll have more freedom over your character in the next installment, even whether you win the contest at all, which is left as a cliffhanger at the end of this game.
I enjoyed Redemption Season (I was immersed enough to play it straight through) but it also pissed me off. It’s the B movie cousin of Heroes Rise, your least favorite Final Fantasy game that might set up the next one that you liked. If I had the chance to do it over, I’d buy and play it again, flaws and all. But the choice is yours.
Seriously? Even the ending is a cliffhanger? That is so not a selling point for me.
I have read Prodigal in the demo, yes. Rather odd for her not to mention Heroes Rise’s MC, considering how obsessed she was with him/her/sex. (Or does she at some point?)
Well… (smiles) a demo is a demo. Although making me see the low points was probably not what they were aiming for…
Thank you for replying! As for now though, I’ll think I’ll just wait and see how it goes. The reviews and what I have seen from the demo are not giving me a good picture so…
but maybe I might just be expecting too much after playing through Guns of Infinity…
Does that mean you haven’t played the original Heroes Rise trilogy? If you haven’t, you should as soon as possible. I have to stop talking about it now or I’m going to gush about spoilers, but - it’s just awesome.
I have played it through. Even reached 100 Legend score in HeroFall after who knows how many tries. haha
Which is why THP2 seems so disappointing.
Anyone know how to get the clues?
If you have less than 50 of reputation with Loa you get the second clue and if you have more than 49 you get the first one.
The first is just like the second, the only diference is that she says someone will try to sabotage you for to be eliminated
I have to say that I’m a huge fan of the herorise series and that I also loved this game, maybe not as much but still. One of my favorite parts was when the cab driver refuses to let you and your sister in. The reason that I liked THIS so much was because it was the first time in the game that shows us the discrimination and doesn’t just tell us about it. Showing vs. Telling. That is one of the biggest things that the next game needs to change.
I really liked it, but I do agree with the problems most people have. The issue was shoved on us and at the end our character just suddenly decides that they want to become an anti discrimination mascot. That needed to be a choice, do we fight against discrimination or do we only try to take care of our sister. Either one could have worked and both would have created very interesting story lines down the road.
Another thing, Jury and BM. I never romanced Jury, but sucked the way that relationship was just destroyed off screen. That was a really cheap move by the author and it needs a proper explanation in the next story. And Bright Magic, really? How the hell could they think that was a good idea. Black magic was supposed to be the bad girl. She did bad things but she did them to help people. That was what made her so awesome in the first game.
Even after all that and more smaller things I can’t remember, I liked it. Overall not a bad game. Interesting powers and the discrimination angle if done right can be very interesting. I hope the author reads all of this and considers things very carefully, because this new series can be really good, I have hope.
So am I the only one thinking/hoping Crystalline gets upgraded to a love interest in the future? With Miss Boss either dead or in a coma, the only female option (sans Weaver) is gone, leaving a slot open and I thought it was strange your character could have a crush on her if nothing came of it. From what I saw of her I liked her, she seemed sweet and more interesting than the other LI’s, the only one of which I kind of like is Weaver. And the show could do something interesting with a “showmance”/love triangle between her, the PC and Ignite (which I usually hate, but with this set-up actually could be okay).
Huh, so Crystalline isn’t actually a RO? I didn’t pick her, but I figured since the option was there…
That said, she wasn’t of interest to me either. She seems like a nice girl and…that’s about it. Honestly, I’m trying to figure out which of the characters I would have liked to be available for romance, but I’m pretty much drawing a blank. What about you guys? Who would you have liked to romance or who do you hope will become available in the future?