Guenevere (WIP)

That’s true based on what is moraly and pollitically correct TODAY. Women from the medieval times didn’t had a say on that sort of thing - they either obliged or suffered the consequences We need to remember two things:

  1. Europe was under a patriarchal political system that placed men above women in all things. If a married man wanted to have kids, the wife was semi forced to provide.
  2. Homosexuality was considered a serious taboo. Not only was it was shunned by the populace, the church considered such acts as henious and abominable.

The author is free to write whatever they wish, its their world afterall, however, when people start arguing about what is moraly and politically correct based on today’s standards I’m always worried that the authors are going to start cutting corners just to appease those individuals.

1 Like

[details=Putting my entire post under a cut - trigger warning because the conversation is about rape][quote=“IvoryOwl, post:8139, topic:1996, full:true”]

That’s true based on what is moraly and pollitically correct TODAY. Women from the medieval times didn’t had a say on that sort of thing - they either obliged or suffered the consequences We need to remember two things:

  1. Europe was under a patriarchal political system that placed men above women in all things. If a married man wanted to have kids, the wife was semi forced to provide.
  2. Homosexuality was considered a serious taboo. Not only was it was shunned by the populace, the church considered such acts as henious and abominable.

The author is free to write whatever they wish, its their world afterall, but if we’re talking about adding some degree of historical realism then one should stick as close to the book as possible. When people start arguing about what is moraly and politically correct based on today’s standards I’m always worried that the authors are going to start cutting corners just to appease those individuals.
[/quote]

This is not a historical retelling of the story of King Arthur, because such a thing never existed to begin with. This version of the story does include anachronistic elements when it suits the author, whether as major as not including Christianity or as minor as Arthur playing with marbles as a kid.

I absolutely think marital consent should be one of the anachronistic elements included.[/details]

11 Likes

TW: rape.

[spoiler]Did you read my previous clarification? I wasn’t talking about the book or what someone is free to write, I was talking about what was a (likely unintentional) rape joke made earlier in the thread. Because these remarks leave lasting impressions on people about what is and isn’t acceptable behaviour towards another person, even if they’re unintentional. Furthermore I think you need to look up spousal rape statistics and laws around the world - this is not a “historical” issue, it is a right now issue. Its happening to a real person right now (even in Europe) and you need to stop talking about it like there ever was and ever will be a justification.

ETA: I was assuming those comments were unintentional, I really doubt they were now.[/spoiler]

7 Likes

“This game is no exception. It actively embraces anachronism. It puts Merlin’s seventeenth-century lab apparatuses alongside early medieval chain mail and late medieval plate mail, with Roman soldiers who act and dress like they’re in the first century. All of these elements have appeared elsewhere in different versions of Arthurian legend.”

#bye

And before you talk to me about “realism” - remember, I read the original Le Morte D’Arthur, unedited. It’s piss. It’s still going to be piss. It’s fantasy. Just because it was written ages ago doesn’t make it any different from a fantasy novel of today.

8 Likes

America too. I believe marital rape is illegal in most if not all states, but there are plenty of people who don’t agree and believe marriage means blanket consent at all times.

This is precisely why I love that Arthur respects consent. I can’t accept a person as a heroic figure in a work of fiction if they commit rape. I hope I’m not alone in this, haha.

You have my condolences! I had to read Le Morte D’Arthur in college and was pissed off the entire time. I don’t know if I already mentioned that Jean’s writing has rehabilitated the whole King Arthur and the Round Table setting for me. I avoided this thread like the plague for a long time until someone in another thread praised the writing and the author’s handling of the consent issues raised. I’m glad I gave it a shot.

10 Likes

Arthurian legend is medieval or worse pagan and like that is filled with rape incest and violence. However, like all legend could and must be adapted by the author. And @jeantown had made a brilliant work totally wipe out rape and let the incest more or less sorted out. Is nice for once not have to be shove in a rape scene of a poor woman or trans lesbian or not. In a world of a legend wjere magic and gods walk among people talking about realism is a grain of salt.

5 Likes

I don’t think I’ve mentioned this but Arthur’s story, is, actually and originally, a person in the 15th century writing about someone in the 5th century, and has all the anachronisms and historical inaccuracies you would expect of someone in the 21st century writing about the 11th century today.

It’s meant to be revitalised. It’s a story; a story based on widespread historical tales and mythology from throughout time dolled up in magic and strung together with a main character that everyone can root for, written by a bored man in prison, who was also most likely a rapist himself.

Take it. Run with it. Create something out of it that means something to this era. This reminded me of Mists of Avalon, was that intentional? Anyway, noice.

4 Likes

TW: rape.

[spoiler][quote=“bobsmyuncle, post:8143, topic:1996”]
I can’t accept a person as a heroic figure in a work of fiction if they commit rape. I hope I’m not alone in this, haha.
[/quote]

You’re definitely not alone. So many writers whack in a rape scene to show how bad a character is (or how far the protagonist has fallen) and then they just can’t commit to that character being a rapist and suddenly we have Rapist To The Rescue moments that make no sense whatsoever but clearly we aren’t meant to remember the rape scene (History’s Vikings does this).[/spoiler]

3 Likes

There are books about the Arthurian legend from XI not the actual ones of course The French version is from XIII Spanish traditional version where is no rape anywhere at all. is XII and is in poetry. The Arthur story is totally a STORY so anyone can put whatever the problem is most authors were men that love rape and those stuff basically. In Spanish version Guen was in love then get bored of him going everywhere banging all girls so she fall in the don Juan lancelot. She was forgiven and return all happy with arthur and lives in the other world wanting to rule Britain again. So if you saw a raven could be Arthur protecting Britain

4 Likes

And Lancelot got added because one day a French author was like “Hey guys, remember those stories about that cool king? Well his best friend was FRENCH and he was the greatest best most handsome knight of anywhere ever. Also the queen was totally in love with him.”

It’s all fanfiction just do what you want with it :laughing:

12 Likes

Um… a jet-lagged hello from my layover in Hong Kong… I should have known the thread would get active again just when I wasn’t around… I’m afraid I don’t have the battery life to respond to everything, but I do want to say thank you to the people who have brought up my in-game notes on historical “accuracy,” and I would direct anyone who hasn’t read them to take a look. They’re in the notes on the game accessible from the stats screen. I will repeat, yet again, that this game is, and always had been, a work of fantasy. :slight_smile:

And now to catch another plane! I haven’t slept in 36 hours, and it will probably be another 9 or more before I can sleep… good times!

24 Likes

That’s what happens when you turn your back on us :wink:

1 Like

Just here to say that after thousands of ill-timed crashes stopping my Guenevere in the middle of book one, I’ve finished it for the first time! I lost my save code, but I finished it for the first time!

And I love this game. I love the romances, the characters, the Arthurian saga…I just really enjoy this game. Thank you for making it!

2 Likes

Well, problems… dismissed for another time, let’s change topic!

Sooooo… I always thought of Guen as a black woman, anyone with me? Anyone here watched BBC Merlin, you get me, right? You see where I’m coming from? Such an iconic Guen for me, so very uniquely brave and active as compared to the ideas of a passive Guen I grew up on. What’s your iconic Guinevere or, Guen faceclaim?

6 Likes

I never watched that show, I always thought the young Merlin thing just didn’t fit. And honestly I’ve never been into Arthuriana before this game. I enjoy King Arthur as a character, with the struggle to create a utopia and the tragedy that he will never achieve it. But in English lit, there was a simplistic, judgmental tone of “this is all Guinevere’s fault” that drove me batty.

On Guen’s appearance, I picture her as a statuesque redhead. Blame the illustrations of Romantic paintings included in my textbooks, I guess :slight_smile:

4 Likes

Angel Coulby is always the first face I see when I think of Guenevere now (Merlin-watchers FTW!!), she wasn’t the first Guen I saw but she absolutely killed it in that role. One of my Guens is pretty much Angel Coulby because I had to influence her storyline but the rest are oddly featureless in my head. I never gave much thought of what they looked like.

ETA: that may be unclear. Angel Coulby is the first face I see… but she is not the first actress I saw as Guen; that was Lena Headey when I was a kid but I only remember that she looked really well-dressed.

2 Likes

in the end of the day Arthur wouldn’t be the one that pressure her it just not his character. But I would not be surprised if Morgan actually put some pressure on her. Not including the court and then they’re both there families.

There is no way it’s in character for Morgana to pressure Guen to have a child if she doesn’t want to. I can pull quotes from the published game if you don’t believe me.

18 Likes

Didnt before but I sure as hell will now

@bobsmyuncle You inspired me to play through the game again. I now think you are correct that Morgana’s marriage appears to have happened before Arthur became king. I thought I remembered a scene where Count Grimald was asking why Morgana is not also addressed as a queen, but having reread that part, it does not appear relevant to the timing of Morgana’s forced marriage. I do not however feel that it changes much in the assessment of this game’s Arthur. Morgana is miserable and wears her misery for anyone who cares to see, but all Arthur cares about is putting her dark magic to use.

I adore Morgana and anyone who harms her or causes her pain will rue the day they crossed my Guen’s path.

As was probably obvious from my post, I love that movie and while it re-imagines some Arthurian canon particularly concerning Lancelot, I still think it is excellent. I also love the sound track.

1 Like