Okay I am focusing on doing 1,000 words starting…in about 30 seconds…but I just finished the Invincible series on Amazon and I freaking LOVED it. 10/10. The amount of tension they built in some of those scenes was amazing. And that final fight was tough to stomach, and I mean that in a very good way. I much preferred it to anything Marvel has put out in the last two years (other than NWH).
Highly recommend if you haven’t seen it!
How about an MC trying to mind control the Hero into loving them, but fails has the hero’s willpower is to strong. But sometimes the hero slips and says something flirtatious or sus
Wait, Shade is a literal genius? That’s both surprising and hilarious.
I’ve no problem with the MC being a true villain, but you describe the MC as a psychopath, imply that they don’t have a sympathetic motivation and state that their relationship with the hero of the story is inherently toxic and extremely problematic.
It makes me leery since it sounds like the MC is a very specific type of villain; the one that’s hard to connect with or even like.
Now, I could have misunderstood your intent with the MC here. Would you be able to tell us what directions we can take them in?
Well, what are some directions you have in mind?
I do want the player to enjoy a good amount of agency, within the framework of “it’s a villain story,” but I didn’t want to set expectations where players thought they could create “anti-heroes with secret hearts of gold” because…it’s already been established that your MC is pretty bad. You’ve probably already murdered some city council members (depending on your powers), you’ve already attacked Gemstone and tried to end him, and if you were with Putty, you may have done some serious violence to innocent bank employees. Not to mention what you do if you help Shade.
I do think the MC needs more personality sliders (beyond the current ‘solo/cooperative’ bar) to add some nuance to your character. If anyone has any suggestions for what those could be, fire away! I would need to go back and sprinkle those checks in, so the sooner the better.
And I also want to include more checks based on your motivation. For example, a person with a strong desire for the finer things in life could justify doing all sorts of bad things to get those finer things.
And I guess I would ask, what villains do people actually like or relate to? I mean, many comics fans love Joker in a “omg I love Joker!” way, but he’s an evil, deranged bastard. They may think he’s cool but do they really “like him” or “relate to him?” I dunno. Homelander, Darth Vader, Red Skull, Lex Luthor, Dr. Doom, I mean they have all done some really evil shit. It sort of comes with the territory.
I guess I am concerned that players might start out playing the game thinking “oh cool, I play as a villain” but then after reading 100k words or so, they start thinking “it’s not fun anymore to be such an evil bastard; can I get a redemption arc??”
Is the idea of “playing a villain” more appealing than actually doing all the bad stuff? Do people actually want “lovable” bad guys like MegaMind or Gru from Despicable Me?
I mean does it remain a villain story if we turn out to be good in the end. I kinda prefer that we are actually a villain who does terrible stuff rather than one being forced to do so by fate or something else or someone else.
Definitely not. I think the implication and concern was simply, “I can’t really relate to a psychopathic villain specifically.”
I would argue you’re not supposed to relate to a villain. Maybe with their motivations sometimes, but never with them. As you mentioned, people love the Joker as a character, but not as a person. That should be the goal for a villain.
And, honestly, Eric, I’m personally into this game so much because you aren’t afraid to let us be a real villain. A proper one. Its refreshing amid the Disneyfying of everyone these days. I think I speak for other players on this, too. So far, you’ve let us be truly evil. Give us that agency you mentioned, or maybe even the option to be a witty, relatable, maybe even slightly misunderstood bad guy, but that certainly should not be the main focus. It would greatly take away from what the game currently offers so much of.
I could be wrong, but I don’t think people are wanting anti-heros. I think they’re wanting anti-villains, like Poison Ivy.
Isn’t Political Change an antihero route?
Since you’re basically exposing shady and/or corrupt members of the government and saving animals.
Isn’t Poison Ivy a psychopath though? Feeding people to plants? Mind controlling people with her kisses to kill people? I thought she poisoned the water supply at one point? Maybe I’m misremembering. “Villainy” is a surely a sliding scale, and comic book writers change characters’ motivations all the time, but damn I always saw her as pretty messed up (toned down for the Harley cartoon, yes).
Maybe I should just get away from the “psychopath” label for your MC (not that it’s in the story, anyway) and worry about giving the player a range of stuff to do across the ‘villainy’ spectrum.
Well, what are some directions you have in mind?
I’m not expecting or advocating for an anti-hero route if that’s what you mean. I just want to know if there will be anything redeemable and/or humanizing about my character so that I can root for them; something that would make me understand why the MC is doing what they’re doing.
In other words, will we be Darth Vader or Homelander? Or will there be a range in-between?
Both Darth Vader and Homelander have committed inhumane acts, but Vader not only had things that humanized him, you could also understand why he turned out the way he did. At the same time, it in no way justified his actions.
Homelander though? There’s nothing redeemable about that guy. You want him to die.
I’m concerned that we’ll get 100k words into the story only to realize we’re Homelander fighting against Starlight instead of Darth Vader fighting against Luke Skywalker.
Is the idea of “playing a villain” more appealing than actually doing all the bad stuff? Do people actually want “lovable” bad guys like MegaMind or Gru from Despicable Me?
There’s definitely a market for villain stories, you don’t have to worry about that; this thread is proof of that.
Seriously though, no matter what I tweak, I really think the MC needs some more personality sliders. So toss out ideas if you have any!
I thought one might be “impulsive/calculating.” It’s used often in games, but I think it might apply pretty well here.
And I also need to figure out if I’m married to keeping “First person POV, past tense” allll the way to the end. I like writing this way, it’s freeing and it’s fun, but it’s also possible that writing in first person POV is causing me write the MC as editorializing about a lot of stuff that might not match players’ vision for their MCs, and that those editorial comments would be better served as actual choices.
If I’m going to change to second-person POV and/or to present tense, I really need to do that now. Time for another poll.
I think it’s better to be replaced with “improviser/planner”: living in the moment and going with the flow or having a long-term goal.
also merciful/ruthless but renamed to “dominator/destroyer”: preserve life so it could serve me, myself and i or noone’s gonna report me if everyone’s dead
but if u want impulsive/calculating as well, rename it to “prideful(arrogant)/pragmatic”: look at the time, it’s time to monologue or every second counts to achieve success
why fancy names for sliders?
A manipulation vs hands-on slider could be fun. It would be interesting trying to go against the obvious type. A mental villain who likes to be in the thick of things, or strong villain who tries to trick people into doing the dirty work.
Yet another vitally important poll. Your guidance thus far as been invaluable. It’s always wise to know what the audience prefers.
So about POV and tense. Right now 98% of the game is told in First Person POV/Past Tense. My vision has always been that the narrative of the game is your MC monologuing, with your MC’s arch enemy as their audience. I think it makes sense.
But it doesn’t have to be that way.
I could easily retain the Second Person POV/Present Tense that’s used in the ‘present’ scenes’ and use it for the entire game, basically just shifting your MC back to a (really) extended flashback. So your story would be told all in present tense, even though you know it’s already happened. And I’m a bit worried that maybe using First Person POV is causing me to have your MC editorialize/give opinions about things instead of making those choices where you get to pick your MC’s opinion on such things. Like maybe the First Person POV voice is too strong? Like it pushes aside some of your preferences?
We all know Second Person POV/Present Tense is the general standard for Hosted Games. Would the story be more fun if you were playing it out as it happened?
0 voters
The “monologue” setup is so much of what attracts me to this game. Rather than changing the perspective, maybe just make sure to “check in” with the present often enough to keep it feeling like the reader is the one “speaking”?
Also, I thought part of the plan for this game was to make it possible to create whatever kind of villain you want, as much as possible. I know there have to be some limitations on how much you can include, but I think it would make for a better game (and much higher replayability) to have a broader range of villain types to play. I would love to be a complete psychopath one day, the fanatic who thinks she’s the hero the next day, and someone taking out his semi-righteous anger on the world the day after that.
I have a few ideas:
For the personality sliders, I would recommend something like Secret identity/plain to see, it would represent if your character keeps his villain identity as a secret or is open about it like the joker.
Being able to use shape-shifting power to become different people, not only animals.
Maybe something like a power combination, for example, if I choose mind control and pheromones it would be easier to control people (basically kilgrave).
Making the insignia of the villain optional or at least an option to not put it in the costume (and put it in something like a note), I came up with this because I choose shape-shifting as one of my powers and I thought it would be dumb to have an insignia if I could just transform in different people every time I did a crime.
Pd: Personally, I like the idea of a redemption arc, or a not completely evil villain, maybe a villain that has a higher purpose but uses the wrong ways to achieve it. I also love the first-person perspective, I find it refreshing.
Yeah I think I need to do a quick sweep back over back over Module 1, remove some of the editorializing, and insert a few more choices, based on the new MC variables I’ll add as well as the existing motivation stats. I think that will add more agency for the MC.
Thanks! I think I might use a couple of those. Although I think your hours-long monologue implies some level of arrogance. 
Honestly I’d rather not have a have a Redemption arc honestly. But that doesn’t mean we can be good friends with our side kick or other villains. Maybe you could let people choose how they feel about people.