That was the first impression I got of the game though. A graphic calling one of the female characters a slut. So, it did seem like the game was about sexism. The impression I got from the graphics was that this game is somehow about objectifying, or harassing a woman until she attacks you, or she caves in. That makes me all sorts of uncomfortable.
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Not that I have anything to do with this, but thatâs a slight over-reaction donât you think (On the impression part, I can see where youâre coming from on the whole âslutâ thing)? I mean, the only way that I can understand something like that being construed is if one looked at the gifs only and mostly skipped over the text of the OP, and even then, thatâs just a bit of an unusual jump, to me, my first impression was, âOh, thatâs cool, it looks like I can say whatever I want to to an NPC, heck I can even be stupid on purpose for the funnies/to see what the NPCâs reaction will beâ, rather than the game being âsomehow about objectifying, or harassing a woman until she attacks you, or she caves inâ, itâs an NPC who also happens to be a girl, sure, but itâs meant to be a proof of concept, though perhaps bringing in another character and showing their dialogue as well would have helped, rather than focusing on the one character, though I still do think thatâs a bit of a far jump to make even with the OP as is, no matter how I look at it, itâs quite clearly just showing the different dialogues actually have consequence in game with characters, even the jackass/nagging/stupid dialogues.
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Iâve had a certain difficulty to truly engage in games with similar concept but it seems you are working hard to overcome some of the exact particularities that bothered me. Iâll let myself be hopeful with this project, as ambitious as it is, and would be glad if itâd be possible for me to take part in any future tests.
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No, I donât think it is an over-reaction.
First impressions do matter. Iâd expect the samples weâre given are supposed to give us a taster of the game, and what itâs like. Theyâre there to allow us to make judgements.
If I find the samples alienating, then Iâm not going to play the game, and surely thatâs doing the opposite of what theyâre intended to do? Theyâre supposed to draw people in.
It seemed as if the game itself was making the judgement that I was a heterosexual male, and that I was creeping on this girl Iâd just met, since most of the examples are us complimenting, or insulting her appearance.
I did like that she is hostile though instead of fawning like regular chat-bots.BUT that does make me feel like weâre harassing her with the conversation.
Itâs an interesting concept. I can see the potential in it. Itâs the sort of thing Iâd be all over back when I was interested in this style of game. I remember playing Galatea, and having fun with Eliza, and oh the Zap Dramatic attempts at negotiation simulators, and there was a game, about a couple having an argument, and Iâm trying to remember the name of it⌠Facade I think. Yeah those are all super-old examples. Itâs been a while.
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The name you are looking for is indeed Facade! Still got it in my computer. I didnt really notice at first but what you are saying is right, it does seem strange and I also think a better example could have been taken to show how the game mechanic work. I have a hard time thinking this have much to do with the actual game though. It seemed more like examples of simple commands while having a low karma. We also seem to have been kidnaped by cannibals wich she is a part of so harrassing her definitly wont end well for our character.
Dont get me wrong I completely understand what you mean when you say that this is not giving you a good first look of the game and like I said I definitly think better examples could have been used but I think this is a big misunderstanding. Hopefully you guys can help make sure the game doesnt give peolpes the wrong idea anymore.
I would find it really unfortunate if this game got backlash for a misunderstanding.
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Youâve got no argument there, I agree on that, like I said, it certainly would have helped if it were showing the same interactions with several characters, Iâm just saying that the example of a first impression you had is not one that the OP is entirely responsible for bringing up and isnât 100% founded in the graphics the OP put up.
Why do you say it seemed as if it was making the assumption that the player is a heterosexual male? Because of the âcreepâ factor in the dialogue? The fact that the character in the example (in failing/awkward fashion) compliments and insults Qara? Thatâs not something thatâs exclusive to heterosexual males, itâs a stereotype, sure, and it also happens, sure, but itâs certainly not exclusive only to heterosexual males. And again, itâs simply there to show you can be a creepy character, a jackass character, or what have you, and the game still will reply to you in kind. And that may be alienating, sure, but itâs there to show âproof of conceptâ and how the game is different from your usual one.
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That said Iâm happy the author did mention being a shtty person would be met with consequence. Like in real life if your character doesnt have the skills to get out of trouble when he is being a sht then he will get his *ss kicked or possibly worst. At least I would assume thats how it will go down. Here it seemed like being a creep will be met with becoming a roast.
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None of this is me being upset. Nor am I trying to attack the game. (And I certainly donât think any less of the author). Like I said, itâs an interesting idea. I think there are some things to take into consideration though.
It says in the text samples a few times that weâre a man. Also women tend to react differently to compliments given to them by other women, than they do compliments given by apparently heterosexual men.
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@Malebranche
âOh, thatâs cool, it looks like I can say whatever I want to to an NPC, heck I can even be stupid on purpose for the funnies/to see what the NPCâs reaction will beâ
This is exactly the reaction we are trying to achieve. Thanks for the kind words, you managed to provide really good arguments in the conversation above 
@Guhik
Yes, we are really trying to remove uncomfortable aspects of such kind of games and give player freedom in typing whatever he or she wants (no usual responses like âcanât parse this string, itâs not a verb I recognizeâ and so on)
@FairyGodfeather
We had 1 gif with âbad wordsâ and 3 without so I still donât fully understand why your first impression was so negative. And it wasnât even about, for example, poor writing style. Too bad for us! Well, I asked for feedback - and you provided a lot of feedback, finding our weak spots. Weâll polish that.
@cyanide
Right! I hope our future updates that will feature some interesting mechanics including combat system will remove any misunderstanding
The thing is, most of the NPCs in videogames are voiceless. They canât really protect themselves against playerâs actions and words, usually they tend to just ignore everything. NPCs in Dark Forest: Reborn donât ignore - they understand and they punish.
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I felt this way too. Itâs why I didnât initially comment on this thread. Iâm glad you brought this up.
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Same, same. It felt so very⌠het male, you know? Not up my alley at all.
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Absolutely!
Iâm not sure where this game is going and what the OP plans to include but it would it be nice if the game opened to people of various genders and sexualities
Of course, Iâm basing this off of the little we have seen so far.
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Well I believe it was but Iâm not certain. It seem really early in developpement so thereâs a bunch of info we dont have yet. I know there will be romance but Iâm not sure of the premise too much except what was said on the website. It seemed like it was set in a sort of post-apocalyptic setting but I didnt find anything about gender.
They also added that acting the way that made you uncomfortable was not acceptable just so you dont keep a wrong idea.[quote=âDarkForestCrow, post:1, topic:20201â]
No no, this type of âflirtingâ with NPCs like Qara is not okay. You will learn it after the meeting with her family.
[/quote]
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@attolia
Thatâs why I am actually here! To get some important information from experienced players (and just nice people) and feedback with first impressions. You should also take in consideration that itâs just impossible to show everything using one single announcement. Itâs impossible even for complete games (our concept is on pre-alpha). You saw some footages - but it doesnât mean that the entire game was shown in these footages and there wonât be any different kinds of relationships. Itâs good that you want to see more.
Can you give me an example of IF or other kind of game that is âopenedâ enough, please? It will be easier for me to understand you.
@Bagelthief
Hey, thanks for the feedback!
As I already said to attolia, itâs literally impossible to show everything on the early stage of development. So, please, donât think itâs the only thing we have and the only type of relationships we plan
If you want to help us with our concepts and if you have a bit of your time to give us some examples of games you enjoyed to play, please, do it!
@cyanide
You are right, gender of our protagonist is not specified.
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I see those quote marks, honey. 
also @cyanide can you please stop saying âeveryone is tired of thisâ or something similar every time the debate becomes too much for you personally?
The way the character thinks and talks implies to me that theyâre at very least written by a het male writer, or am I wrong?
Iâd love to help but Iâm really too autistic to take any initiative. Youâve got to ask me questions to get anything substantial out of me, most times.
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The thing is that these things were brought up, the author discussed it and made a few changes. We were done this subject and the game could move on.
I find their commentary to be uselessly aggressive and I dont want another argument to spring up when everything was taken care of. Sexism is alway a touchy subject so I find it useless to start another argument concerning this when it was already discussed with the author. I am not a mod and I am not trying to do their job but I wouldnt want this thread to turn in a debate zone when the game is so early in developpement.
I am on your side but this doesnt need to devolve.
Edit: the comment was flagged. Now we can speak about the game.
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Mini-update: teaser of our combat system added to the description.
More details about our combat system will be revealed soon. Weâre also going to discuss other aspects of Dark Forest: Reborn, such as other ways of solving your problems. Smashing everything to pieces is fun, but sometimes you donât want or just canât do such things.
@Bagelthief
Okay! Here is the list of games, can you write â+â if you played it and like the game, â-â if you donât like it, and nothing if you didnât play it?
1.) Baldurâs Gate 1/2
2.) Neverwinter Nights 1/2
3.) Fallout 1/2
4.) Arcanum
5.) Planescape: Torment / Tides of Numenera
6.) Dragon Age
7.) Mass Effect
8.) System Shock / Bioshock
9.) Divinity: Original Sin
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Havenât played any but ME and DA!
DA1: +
DA2: -
DAI: -
ME1: +
ME2: +
ME3: -
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Iâm just popping in to say that I loved Torment: Tides of Numenera. That was one heck of a game. I need to get back to it.
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@Bagelthief
Great! Thank you
We really enjoyed playing DA1 and, ofc., ME2.
@Lithophene
I agree, this game is a masterpiece! Itâs always nice to see when people like Brian Fargo or Chris Avellone have freedom in their creativity.
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