I wouldn’t be surprised if some writers quietly abandoned their projects since they were frustrated by the lack of attention they received. I might have done the same if I had been in this position. (although I did barge into this community with a full 120k draft of a game, which was a crazy move in hindsight)
I think the real thing we need to do is to encourage everyone on this forum to make an effort to try out as many WIPs as possible, rather than just hanging around their favorite WIP megathread. For new writers, the competition for eyeballs can be downright brutal, something I learnt only when I had my own WIP thread.
We could benefit from more ways to publicize these WIPs, but we also need to enourage more forum members to give them a chance.
I’m quite busy these days (and have some personal issues), but I’m trying to make it a point to visit other WIP threads every now and then to try them out and leave a comment.
This is a great idea, in theory, but as someone who is a stubborn pain in the ass without a ton of free time, I only want to play WIPs that interest me. The problem is that it’s hard to tell whether or not a game will interest me by the title (and the description, many times), so I end up waiting for someone whose taste I trust (@lo6otia , @RenataC, @seiji172 , @Eiwynn, or @JBento, typically) to tell me a game is worth playing.
Most times I’ve taken the initiative to play a random WIP, I’ve ended up disappointed because I didn’t get the toy that was promised on the Cracker Jack Box. I have found a few gems on accident, though.
I think there’s a rec thread around here somewhere, but last I checked it wasn’t really that helpful (other than “this game is good!”). Perhaps if we had a rec thread with a quick summary of what’s good about the WIP, or even a quick description of what we can expect from the game, it would help. A quick, bulleted list, maybe? What readers see and what authors intend often differ, so getting recs with what we’re really getting would be useful.
I think that, even if we don’t personally like a game, it would help to provide that to get others interested in it. For example, The Gray Painter wasn’t my thing, but I did beta for it and ended up suggesting it to people I thought would like it… because it’s well-written and engaging. I just found it depressing, which isn’t my thing.
I do agree that feedback is crucial. Knowing that someone is reading what you write is always helpful, and encourages you to keep going.
You’re right, that’s a different one - I am not sure on that. I was planning to ask down the line when HB is getting towards being released.
What I will say on this is that it isn’t something that can come from top-down (99.9% of the time, CoG staff aren’t involved with WIPs until they’re submitted for publication) or from moderators either (although @Eiwynn is doing a fantastic job with the writer support threads which are a lovely more centralised space for discussion, and I’ve been trying out the monthly list of updates which seems to be going well). In all honesty there isn’t really a single reliable way to push readers to try something they wouldn’t already have an interest in.
Most of the small handful of extraordinarily active WIP threads on here are almost entirely:
a) from extremely popular years-long series with existing enthusiastic fanbases
b) went viral elsewhere which boosts discussion here from new users
c) have been through a years-long development, steadily building discussion (which can then turn into a) if another game comes out in the series)
d) have high amounts of drama/arguments or otherwise generally aren’t really about giving feedback
a) and c) can be attempted by working very hard over a long period of time: focusing on writing the game, putting up regular updates or regular progress reports, perhaps providing discussion prompts to readers, creating supplementary material (though I’d argue that there’s a danger there of distraction from the main project so beware!) and so on.
b) is gold for professional marketing teams but it’s not really sensible for people here to aim for those heights because luck is such a big part of it.
d) isn’t, for me, really desirable as an author because while of course it’s exciting to see post numbers going up and people getting excited about a game, there are downsides that come with it too.
So, none of these things are easy to replicate quickly (and like I say some may not be desirable anyway) as a new or even an established author and I wouldn’t really advise trying to aim for that because it likely won’t reach such high levels of activity anyway.
A more reliable way to get eyeballs on a game is for an author to write something to the best of their ability, play it themself at least a few times, do a spellcheck, make sure it passes QuickTest and RandomTest, and write their initial WIP post in a way that’s easy to understand at a glance. When I collate my monthly lists, I sometimes see games that could well be very good, but the posts at the top of their WIP thread have a lot of errors or aren’t easy to grasp. Which is a shame because I imagine that’s part of how those games get overlooked.
Putting up a substantial chunk of the game - not an exact science, but there needs to be enough for players to get a sense of what the game’s going to be like to play - is very helpful. It is also immensely useful to play lots of games, popular and unpopular, whether you enjoy them or not, to get a sense of what might gain interest but also crucially what you find interesting to create.
And to paraphrase @Jacic, who I’ve seen say something like this many times: a really good way for authors to encourage people to look more at their WIPs is to connect with other WIP authors, give comments and support, and show that you have interesting things to say about writing. Which isn’t to say be mercenary about it, but playing a variety of games and talking about them has a positive effect for everyone involved.
Recommendations are also great: there are a couple of megathreads for them:
People should absolutely feel free to post recommendations in those with details of why they liked a game.
There probably isn’t a direct way to “fix” this, but I do agree with the idea that a writer should just try to write something well to attract those eyeballs, and hopefully trust in those recommendations, which could help in directing the right audience to the right writer, maybe without worrying about aiming for creating a megathread.
I’ve seen this quite a few times while lurking, which I why I do what I do.
Also, not going to lie, being hooked into the existing community and doing a bit of self-promotion does wonders. My little game wouldn’t have gotten nearly as much attention (even the meager amount that it has) if I wasn’t a known entity on the discord side of things doing my best to make people aware I had made something. That can’t really be replicated by a brand new author who’s first appearance on the forums is a WIP post.
There’s only 24 hours in a day, and there’s only one of me (they tried making another, but there wasn’t enough Quality left).
Oh, you poor sad fool!
Uh.
I mean.
I’ll be sure to only use my powers for good.
The thing, of course, is that my taste tends to not align with other people’s, otherwise I’d be saying everyone should get Book of Hours, which is the bestest gamest of all timesest. You, for example, probably should not? But ask me again once House of Light DLC comes out, with more visitor interactions, maybe?
Similarly, I also love the also-stellar In Other Waters, but how interested are you in being a non-diving-suit-AI in the diving suit of a xenobiologist trying to find her missing ex-girlfriend in the depths of an alien ocean (and also analysing and building the library of the alien ecosystem)?
Is there a discord server for CS games? The only two IF discord servers I’ve found seem mostly focused on other forms of IF storytelling, which is fine, I just feel a bit like an oddball there (par for the course in my life though so I’m used to it).
Hard same. Though I agree with @HarrisPS that it’s a good idea to play as many games as you can whether you like them or not, this falls apart in practice for me as I have very little time to spend reading/playing and I DNF books and other media super fast if I find it doesn’t grab my attention. I’m simply too busy to push through when I’m not invested in a story. Which means a writer has to make me care about the characters from the get-go and give me an adventure worth taking.
That is not to say that anything I’m not interested in isn’t worth reading. On the contrary, I’m super picky and not the ideal reader for many genres. My point is, the first thing people read (description and first chapter/prologue) has to be engaging enough to make them continue reading. This is obvious, and something every writer has to learn an do in their own way, but isn’t always easy to pull off. That said, there are some pretty fantastic intros in some of the WIPs. I might not read everyone’s work but I’m consistently impressed with many of the writers I’ve found through this forum.
So much this. And recommendations go a long way. One of these days I’m going to have to play Book of Hours.
I recommend watching someone play for a bit before commiting. Like I said, this is my favourite game ever, but it’s very much not a for-everyone thing.
I wonder… would it be possible to make a stickied post at the top of that thread with consolidated lists of recs, possibly separated by type (i.e., “Good romance”, “Good Male [and another with female] LIs”, “Good/Responsive MC”, “Good stat raiser”, “Good overall story”, etc.)? That kind of thing would help me immensely for choosing which games to play (and which to avoid, really). But I have OCD and like making lists, so…
And, see, that’s why I trust you. You have a good handle on what I will enjoy and what I won’t. I took a look at the link and, I agree, the visitor interactions would be my thing. I like the review of: “I have no idea what’s happening”. I’ve felt that way in some games, too…
Same. And I would rather quit immediately, because if I get a full chapter or two in, the completionist side of me will usually force me to keep at it even if it makes me miserable.
Exactly. And when the description clashes with the meat of the game/book, it makes it even worse for me. I hate it when the label promises me something I don’t get at all or, at best, at the very end. That irks me.
I do feel this a lot to be fair, and I don’t always follow my own advice - if I had more time I would definitely play more!
There is a general one here, though it’s quite quiet.
Ooh, that would be fun - I’m not sure it’s something that would be easy to organise with sifting through so many though, because it’s all such a subjective thing. There was a similar set of recommendations here which is great; it might be something that’s easier done by people on an individual basis. I’d be a bit wary of something coming across as “official” recs or an objective truth if that makes sense?
I think a lot of people don’t try out wips as much as they used to because they’re jaded by wips being dropped and or abandoned LOL. Which is fine, I get things happen and life takes precedence but damn I do not want to grieve another wip lmaoo. I typically don’t start new wips now unless it’s been highly highly recommended by friends, most of which are also wip wary lol
I feel like it’s certainly more difficult to do nowadays. Like Hannah has said, a lot of games’ WiP pages that are super active are ones that have quite a bit of discourse. Which is fine, discourse is healthy, but it also can turn into people making the same points, then people responding to those points with the same counter arguments, then the mods step in, then the cycle repeats. I mean, probably the most active my thread ever was (about 90 comments in the span of 2 days or so) was because people were arguing whether or not a character exploring their gender identity belonged in a mystery-murder. Granted, I asked people for their opinions to start with on whether or not that would detract enjoyment from the game for one reason or another, but believe me when I say it turned into… something I didn’t want it to turn into.
On the flip side, before that, the thread was consistently active upon implementation of the Text Box Investigation mechanics. My hope for that was people would discuss about what they found and how it led to different outcomes in that scene (which there are numerous of). That was true for a while, then it turned into “What’s the password for the laptop?” so eventually I just started offering to DM it to people because I didn’t want it splayed out on the forum (unless it was spoilered) because not everyone who visits the forum will want the answer just given to them. (Fun fact though, there’s still a from that scene that I haven’t heard anyone say they’ve found yet).
To be honest, the expectation I had for when I got this far into the story with as many character scenes as I’ve written, were for there to be a fair amount of discussion about the characters themselves, and maybe a couple of theories about the plot since people are in the thick of it now. Which may very well be my fault because I might just not know how to spark discussion in my own thread. Regardless, I don’t think author’s should beat themselves up too bad over not having a ton of discussion, because there are very few WiP posts that get the amount of interaction and excitement we as author’s strive to achieve. And hey, just because someone doesn’t comment doesn’t mean they’re not excited about your work, so there’s always that knowledge as well.
I’m overall pretty satisfied with the amount of traction my own WiP has gotten here on the forum over the past few years. It may not turn out to be the best selling, or the most talked about, or meme’d about on the subreddit, but as long as I can make something that reaches people who read it that I can be proud of, that’s what I’ll be happy with.
Reason I decided to reply to this post in particular: all this is coming from a person who’s first post/presence on this forum was their WiP. All the way back in 2021. A whole 10 years ago now. A miracle how time flies, huh?
That’s me too. Also why I haven’t ever made a WIP post even though I have a couple of them (each one in a different level of completion). I know it’s not ideal, but I’d hate to post my WIP and drop it and then disappoint the readers.
Maybe it’s selfish of me but I don’t really have any interest in WiP’s. I feel the same about video games with early access, betas, et cetera. I just want the finished product.
Raises hand
My first game got a LOT of support here way back in the olden days (Well not really the olden days but the forum has changed a lot in focus even over the last few years). If it had’ve been more like the response a lot of games get now that the forum is bigger and less open to different types of projects and the focus tends to got to a smaller number of ones that get a lot of attention instead I don’t know if I ever would have finished it. If I didn’t enjoy writing for writing’s sake and like interacting with a number of people and game WIPs on this forum then I yeah, it’s unlikely I’d still be here either and sometimes (ok often) I question why I continue to make games here rather than just do jam projects on itch or just write stuff in my spare time and send them to HG when done without any progress threads which can just make you a bit depressed about how poorly you then know the game will be received in advance rather than once it’s done. I can see why some people, especially if new to the forum get frustrated and leave, or worse think their work is bad and get disheartened and stop trying to write IF. (Sometimes different can turn out to actually be surprisingly good despite it seeming like it’s not going to be. Only way is to try it to see )
It’s not the only reason why projects get abandoned, that’s always happened, but I do find it sad that the focus has shifted in this way although I do also understand why it has. I mean why bother with a low traffic WIP, because the assumption is if it has few comments then it’s probably not going to be very good… Right? (No I don’t agree with this, but I do understand why this sentiment exists, and popular threads are popular because the author is obviously checking the boxes for a game people want to play so are getting attention for a reason.) The only advice I have to give on this, is people with low traffic WIPs to try and support other low traffic WIPs as they get the time with some comments with no strings attached. Just spread the attention and love arounds (I get everyone is busy, that’s the bane of my life too. So spread the love within the constraints of the hours of the day I guess )
Advertising new/updated WIPs is a step in the right direction (thanks @HarrisPS ! I have no idea how long that took you to put together!) But it changes little in the scheme of things if no one actually interacts with threads. Just an observation but it’s super disheartening to have sometimes hundreds of clicks on the game link and close to no comments. Even a 1 sentence comment if you even somewhat liked it can make a huge difference to a low traffic WIP’s author’s day.
I’d argue C) is impossible for a lot of writers to achieve. If not one is commenting, there’s no way to build a discussion and it becomes a cycle of an older game that no one seems to want to play. They’re either going to get finished and released to whatever my come, or abandoned well before they can obtain an audience around here in those cases. I do agree that the popular threads have manged to often do this, but some do just seem to have gotten a viral like following quite suddenly. (Example POMA which has been getting a lot of attention since it first was posted.)
Thanks for the clarification. I suspect it may get a little confusing to have demos linking to other sites? Not sure though, could possibly work the other way and get a little more exposure for a game. Not sure about everyone else but the main site that seems to be referring people to my itch games would not be one that would have a large perentage of people willing to buy the paid ones I think. I do get some clicks through from general itch searches though for keywords.
I don’t think that’s the only reason. In fact there are examples I can point to of finished games (or almost finished so they have a high chance of completion) being posted on the forums and getting very little traffic at all probably at least in part because they’re already done so the ability to influence the story as it is written isn’t there. It seems more like many readers want the interactive experience as the game is written, rather than only a finished game. It certainly doesn’t stop the mega threads from going and just because a game is popular does not mean there is any certainty it will be finished, especially when early or from an unpublished author.
Actually, I agree with this. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy if people do not care about a WIP because they think it’ll probably be abandoned, and the writer later decides to quietly abandon it because nobody is interested.
Abandoned WIPs are definitely something I don’t wish to see. I’m personally upset that some WIPs I liked seem to be abandoned at this point, but some of these had struggled to gain attention, and I wouldn’t be surprised if these writers felt disheartened/bitter about that fact few seemed to care about something they put work into, and decided that it wasn’t worth the effort to keep the story going.
But for what its worth, Dragon of Steelthorne was a “completed” WIP right out of the gate, and now in the publishing process. If anyone was afraid of abandoned WIPs, (I think) I had the counter to that. Scarlet Sorceress will likely be released at a 30% complete state, just to see how it goes.
Most choicescript discord servers are just for a game/series/author though the big ones (Well big relatively) like to talk about other games too. Apple was talking about building up a audience using them as a starting point
one game that suffered from this the worst imo was Magikiras The poor authors thread was so dead that they completely dropped the sequel, I always feel so bad about that because I lurked a lot back then and I LOVEEEE magikiras but didn’t think what I had to say really contributed anything so I just silently watched its downfall. I still think of it sometimes, like even if all I had to say was ‘I LOVE YOUR GAME’ maybe just one more comment would have made the author feel less ignored. This is kind of off topic at this point but I never understood the lack of hype behind that game…
I guess another factor to consider is the number of people who play CoG/HG/HC games who are on the forum vs. the amount of people who play them who aren’t on the forum. I have no numbers but I’d guess there are a lot more people on the newsletter vs. people participating here (and many who are more comfortable lurking), so even if a game isn’t getting a lot of traction in the forum, there’s still a chance it might find its readers if it’s brought to completion and published.
I took a look at the link and, I agree, the visitor interactions would be my thing. I like the review of: “I have no idea what’s happening”. I’ve felt that way in some games, too…
Last time I checked we were living the year 2024.
)
(I get everyone is busy, that’s the bane of my life too. So spread the love within the constraints of the hours of the day I guess 
)
This is kind of off topic at this point but I never understood the lack of hype behind that game…