Choice of Rebels: Uprising — Lead the revolt against a bloodthirsty empire!

[poison_mara]

That was my first take of Evil Gandhi. But it doesn’t resonance with a global image I wanted to keeping. I started as a cosmopolitan anti religion noble that will wanted take over but maintain the system. But after known more lore it just doesn’t seem right. I will however made a Character that will follow the cosmopolitan make a new Hegemony with me on top. But I don’t have the details of his background probably a intel based aristo with more anarchy.

And you what’s your main pc has changed with time?

[Norilinde]

@poison_mara

And you what’s your main pc has changed with time?

Hmmm. Probably one of the biggest changes is how much my MC came to hate Breden the more my MC knew of Breden.

@Norilinde

@Ramidel

Unless you’re an aristocrat, it’s impossible to even dislike them until it becomes apparent that there’s a traitor.

Even noble MCs are forced to still feel attracted to Breden months later at the end of winter celebration even if the MC has had months to come to dislike Breden.

@idonotlikeusernames

Heroes Rise with Black Magic and Psy High are far worse offenders here. I simply said it irks me a bit.

I actually think Breden is worse than those two. When I first played this game, I actually liked Breden. However, the problem with Breden is that “less is more”, by which I mean “the less you know Breden, the more you’ll like Breden”. Conversely, “the more you know Breden, the less you’ll like Breden”. Breden is not only a RO shoved down our throats, Breden is a deliberately intensely flawed RO who after you have played enough different paths proves to be both arrogant and cowardly.

@Havenstone

Straight characters have only one RO in this game: Breden. As I’ve said elsewhere, apologies, but I’ve written a rebellion that is an extremely poor dating service.

There’s no “being straight later on.” Your choice when you first encounter Breden determines whether you’re attracted to men, women, or neither. The choice of “both” comes later, when you meet Kalt/a or Simon/Suzane. It is possible with a bit of squinting to ignore that, as @Ramidel says, and the author’s intent is binding on no one.

As stated by @Havenstone in the XOR 1 WIP thread:

Breden belongs (by definition) to a sex that you’re attracted to. That’s part of the mix that’s meant to make your relationship with Breden complex and memorable. I’m still not convinced that the initial pang of attraction should be a choice, any more than I get a choice in real life to feel attracted to a striking, highly charismatic woman. As you get to know Breden better, there are almost immediately options that take you down a not-attracted-to-this-individual path. As a noble, you can be pissed off at her manipulation of you in the helot meetings, you can reject her, and when she forces the issue in Ch 2, you can shut it down permanently. I wholly understand people hankering for noble romance options from your preferred sex, but I’m afraid I don’t intend those to crop up until Game II – when they will crop up in abundance.

and

The MC isn’t forced to like Breden. She’s attractive, and starts the game interested in you; but you can have a wide range of responses to her, many of which will quickly put the relationship into collegial or hostile territory. And yes, a non-bi MC has Breden or no one in Game 1. (Unless, as Taylor says, you interpret the initial “you couldn’t help noticing how attractive s/he was” as, for example, the way I inevitably recognize Channing Tatum as an attractive guy despite being straight myself). Other ROs will pop up in Game 2.

The first game is already out so I am less concerned with things that are too late to change than with how the sequels will be.

If the MC is a covert wisard and stops the Fourth Harrowing with a speech involving knowledge of the weak position of the Theurges, then Breden actually joins in though whether the MC feels Breden deserves any credit for that depends on whether or not the MC thinks Breden is a traitor and thus whether or not Breden’s life was ever at risk.

However if the MC stops the Fourth Harrowing as an overt wisard then Breden contributes absolutely nothing so my MC feels stronger grounds for suspecting Breden. Then if the MC gives the perfectly honest and reasonable answer that the MC is not sure who to trust, Breden actually has the gall to say:

Breden’s face hardens. “I thought I’d earned more of your trust than that, de Serin. Damn it, how do you hope to lead this band without relying on anyone?”

You keep your voice and eyes steady. “I’ll rely only on people who prove themselves trustworthy. The stakes are too high for me to make an exception for my friends. Even close friends.”

“Close friends? Xthonos burn you, you brainsick dandy. This isn’t about finding traitors. You’re just like the rest—behind all your pretty words, you still believe that only nobles can be trusted to lead.” You open your mouth to protest, but Breden cuts you off. “See how many helots will give you their trust when you’re so sparing with your own.” He stalks away.

My noble MC gave up EVERYTHING and risked the MC’s own life to try to save the MC’s friends while Breden did absolutely NOTHING. I don’t know whether or not the noble culture permits or encourages dueling to resolve disputes. If so, then Breden should count himself/herself lucky my MC had COM 0 or my MC would have been tempted to draw steel to settle that. As it is, I imagine my MC clutching tightly to the phials of aetherial blood and repeatedly reasoning out that Breden is not worth wasting blood for wisardry on.

At the end-of-winter celebration, the MC is forced to still feel attracted to Breden and Breden has the oblivious gall to ask the MC to dance. Rather than attraction, it would be closer to barely contained fury. In the strongest possible terms, I resent that the MC is still forced to feel attracted to Breden months after their first meeting and months after the mortal insults Breden gave to the MC. The only aspect of my MC that would still feel an irresistible attraction to Breden by the end-of-winter celebration after how insulting and arrogant Breden had been is my MC’s steel blade. Just because my MC treats helots with the same decency as any human being would deserve does not mean my MC is willing in any way, shape, or form to forgive or forget Breden’s arrogant oblivious rudeness.

and

@Norilinde

@Eric_knight

Actually Breden’s main strength is her/his charisma and organising skill… Breden’s charm help to unify the rebels and for my case, she help get me donation in term of Mules , food, money and shelter for the children… these are essential for my rebellion since i am leading “minimum violence” rebellion … where i never even once rob and raid other villages , my anarchy remain 2 at the end of winter, everyday me and Breden had to visit different place to request donation to get us through the winter without robbing, and with her charisma added to mine, the discontent among my rebels basically are non existence …

under real life situation , charm and charisma are the Beacon of hope … which i am grateful that Breden is on my side and she gave me her Kryptast code , which is the most sacred weapon of the spy-assassin organisation

To be clear, I meant Breden had the nerve to insult the MC after Breden did absolutely NOTHING at the Fourth Harrowing. I am well aware that Breden is supposed to be charismatic and I have seen the Kryptast code scene. My MC reluctantly puts up with Breden’s personality for the sake of Breden’s skills since during winter the band has no other charismatic options since my MC only has CHA 1. Breden’s true personality shines through at the Fourth Harrowing, if you express caution as to whom to trust, and if you send Breden to bring in the strangers in the woods. None of these things reflect well on Breden.

By “minimum violence” rebellion, I assume you mean the one where your MC and Breden stand by and do nothing while the children are Harrowed?

@idonotlikeusernames

This goes for any mc at the Harrowing, doubly so for an open theurge. Of course the helot mc doesn’t have to give up anything, quite the contrary. Still Breden is always highly suspicious and at least somewhat unreliable no matter what.

The helot also doesn’t get called a “dandy”.

Yes, the helot MC is better off as a rebel regardless. My noble MC however particularly as an overt wisard was not amused by Breden’s speech and for Breden to expect my overt wisard MC to agree to dance was delusional at best. “Breden, that ship hasn’t sailed. It was torpedoed and then the sunken wreck was depth-charged.”

@Norilinde

@Havenstone

I hear this, and after the next XoR update, the following response should be available when Breden asks you to dance:

#“With you? I’d sooner throw myself into the fire.” I can’t keep my dislike for ${xhim} in check any longer.

Thank you @Havenstone. I hope the MC gets the chance to throw Breden’s own insults following the Fourth Harrowing back in Breden’s face.

I also liked Elery until I realized she was one of Breden’s bootlickers and an ingrate although this really ties into views on Breden.

With the recent lore info, it looks like my MC’s rebellion will have to do some kind of harvesting of aetherial blood. Prior to the lore dump, I had assumed that merely training people to use their own blood would cancel out the advantages of Theurges using aetherial blood but that appears not to be the case. My MC is not willing to permit the rebellion to fail so my MC’s rebellion is going to be a case of total war.

[poison_mara]

I have the sensation Eleri and Breden has some relationship… is very suspicious. Elery thankful is dead in my game

[Eric_knight]

@Jeeshadow1

I did not even realize there was a Suzanne character (gotta figure out the potential romances for my MC. Do not have highest hopes for him and the heir ) !

Suzanne is the opposite of Simon, to have Suzanne in the game, remember to choose Breden as Male … and if your anarchy is low (perhaps lower than 10 ), she will come to find you… I think it doesn’t matter whether you are Helot or Aristocrat

There is some complicated way to court Suzanne, and unlike Breden… she won’t have in-dept intimacy in Book one, just sort of a promise ( in the style of Arthurian Courtly love)… Mail me if you have problem romancing her

Personally i think she sacrifice a lots when she hand over her family sword and follow me to Xaos

@Norilinde

how much my MC came to hate Breden the more my MC knew of Breden.

I think Breden’s romance is the classical love-hate relationship of a potential enemy , don’t forget she is willing to sacrifice her identify to give us her code, and she could had kill us easily if she want

think of Breden as Milady de Winter from the Musketeer TV series , she married Athos and killed his brother , but hope Athos will understand her stance … she mentioned she is a soldier just like Athos, with a split loyalty , Athos initially sentenced De Winter for hanging , but he left and allow his friend to save her … De Winter will later continue such love-hate relationship with Athos

So i can actually feel that the Breden romance could go down into such route as well , only different is that Breden seems much “nicer” than de Winter and less violent than de Winter… I think with Breden , there should be a tragic romance route

[Norilinde]

@Eric_knight

I think Breden’s romance is the classical love-hate relationship of a potential enemy , don’t forget she is willing to sacrifice her identify to give us her code, and she could had kill us easily if she want

think of Breden as Milady de Winter from the Musketeer TV series , she married Athos and killed his brother , but hope Athos will understand her stance … she mentioned she is a soldier just like Athos, with a split loyalty , Athos initially sentenced De Winter for hanging , but he left and allow his friend to save her … De Winter will later continue such love-hate relationship with Athos

So i can actually feel that the Breden romance could go down into such route as well , only different is that Breden seems much “nicer” than de Winter and less violent than de Winter… I think with Breden , there should be a tragic romance route

If you expanded the details of my earlier quote, I already mentioned the Kryptast code scene. I also explained at great lengths why my MC despises Breden Reaper. There were repeated discussions of Breden’s general untrustworthiness on the XOR WIP thread. I haven’t seen that TV series. Personally, I already think it would be tragic for the MC to romance Breden.

[Kuria_Aliki]

@Havenstone This maybe too early to ask. After my mc’s successful rebellion, if she choose to abolish the caste system but still keep (a reformed) Xthonism as a state religion, there probably is a need for a new teaching on what one’s telos is. One idea is to teach that each person’s telos is “written in a soul” of each person, and thus, is completely unrelated to his/her social/financial status nor family business. It is a holy duty to a child (and teenage) to try out many things to find his/her own telos, and the sign of discovering one’s own telos is joy and gladness. The person’s body is doing what the soul is telling, and the result is harmony. According to this teaching, a person who, in a modern language, choose a career that he/she doesn’t like, would be inviting Xaos.

I wonder if this would be an in-game option. You have said that any teaching must be based on ideas that exists in the game world. And “following your passion” is a pretty modern concept.

[Norilinde]

@Havenstone

Thaumatarch Hera was thought to have been the one who finally cracked that problem, through a carefully guarded refinement process. In fact, while she did discover a new alchemical pathway for reducing sublimation, her truly crucial insights were (1) that other human bodily tissues have a much higher aether concentration than blood (If you go kamikaze and pull down a mountain in Game 1, you’re basically drawing on a whole bunch of that aether, not just the stuff in your bloodstream) and that (2) it would be possible to mask a fairly large-scale process of harvesting those tissues thanks to the Krypteia traditions of helot-hunting in certain city-states.

Thus began the conquest, and the Thaumatarchy.

Those aether-dense tissues (brain, mostly, but the eyes also have enough to be worth harvesting) lose less to sublimation before the aether can be “fixed” through the alchemical process that begins in the Harrower (yielding an inert precursor that can later be refined into usable form). Blood remains a useful natural solvent, contributing a bit to the solution’s potency… and “blood” makes an even more useful, politically tolerable label for the final product.

@Havenstone I wish it had occurred to me to ask this sooner, but if the aether can be “fixed” to avoid losses by sublimation, then could this be done with normal blood without brain or eye tissue? It might look different and would probably be less potent than aetherial blood unless vast quantities of it could be distilled into a more concentrated form, but it at least would be a renewable resource not requiring death. After all, “you can shear a sheep many times but you can skin him only once.” It might deserve a new name such as “liberty blood”, freely donated by free people fighting for their freedom and that of their descendants (no helots were Harrowed in the making of this “liberty blood”).

[Jeeshadow1]

@Eric_knight

There is some complicated way to court Suzanne, and unlike Breden… she won’t have in-dept intimacy in Book one, just sort of a promise ( in the style of Arthurian Courtly love)… Mail me if you have problem romancing her

Thanks! I definitely should do that as I feel Suzanne may work better as a romance for my character than Bredan for a variety of reasons! I am still interested in the Heir, but as I want my character to at least try to be a not terrible human, where as I have my doubts if the heir will be decent

[idonotlikeusernames]

@Norilinde

I wish it had occurred to me to ask this sooner, but

Hmmm…if it can be done it is probably not with the current(ly known) techniques, otherwise someone would be doing it by now. I think finding a way to acquire meteorites to make totems would be the better long term solution. The disadvantage being that it might take a very long time to develop to technological capability to reach and harvest those, so that by that time its most useful god-like use might indeed be as FTL starship fuel

[Norilinde]

@Norilinde

I wish it had occurred to me to ask this sooner, but if the aether can be “fixed” to avoid losses by sublimation, then could this be done with normal blood without brain or eye tissue? It might look different and would probably be less potent than aetherial blood unless vast quantities of it could be distilled into a more concentrated form, but it at least would be a renewable resource not requiring death. After all, “you can shear a sheep many times but you can skin him only once.” It might deserve a new name such as “liberty blood”, freely donated by free people fighting for their freedom and that of their descendants (no helots were Harrowed in the making of this “liberty blood”).

@idonotlikeusernames

Hmmm…if it can be done it is probably not with the current(ly known) techniques, otherwise someone would be doing it by now. I think finding a way to acquire meteorites to make totems would be the better long term solution. The disadvantage being that it might take a very long time to develop to technological capability to reach and harvest those, so that by that time its most useful god-like use might indeed be as FTL starship fuel

@Havenstone

Yep. Unfortunately, “blood” isn’t just blood, as will become clear early in Game 2… So an Empire-wide blood tax/donation scheme would have to hit a much higher total volume to accomplish the same effects.

If even repeated collecting of “liberty blood” yields less total aether than Harrowing someone, then Halassur and the Hegemony may never have bothered attempting it on a large scale. My MC’s rebellion on the other hand cares more about human life and so the trade-off may be worthwhile.

[Eric_knight]

@Jeeshadow1

I am still interested in the Heir,

Well… in my case Suzanne came to find me in her own will , and join my cause willingly …hence i regard Suzanne much higher than the “heir”

@Norilinde

Personally, I already think it would be tragic for the MC to romance Breden.

Yupe… I agree that Breden had many different interpretation and a divide figure, we can only get the final conclusion of this after many years…Lol But i do hope there will be a happy ending with Breden

[Fate880]

Okay I gotta admit part of me hopes Breden is some sort or spy or something along those lines just because the angst it will create, especially on the romance path…

[Gforce]

@idonotlikeusernames

Ha ha!!
I have not the slightest of interest in knowing the history of Netherlands or any such country.(oh! There are a hell lot of countries in this world.)

So whatever you said about your national history, I have no way to know to what extent your claim is true. It might be half-truth as well.

@idonotlikeusernames

I have always been drawing some comparisons and it helps that for a time me and mom lived next to Indian, Dalit refugees. So I did hear some of the horror stories.

So you are saying that you have encountered some Backward Class(Dalit) people in some refugee camp.
(Please tell me the whole story. Not here in this thread, Message me personally. This thread/forum is only for the discussion of choice of games…

@idonotlikeusernames

Add to that the fact that in the modern India of mr. Modi caste-based discrimination again seems to be getting much worse, not better

…And specifically not for any argument, when you drag it to malign the reputation of others’, when you know little about something/someone only from some deceitful Media.)

But in India, I am pretty sure there happens no such incident, where a Dalit is likely to leave India and go to a refugee camp, again to a country as far as Netherlands.
It seems you know nothing about the huge number of welfare governmental schemes put forth by our PM Mr. Modi.

Well for your information, I am not a Priest(Brahmin).
I belong to a Backward Class in my home state of Odisha.
And here we are not subjected to any such discrimination or untouchability.
Yeah I agree it was there for a long time. But the scenario has changed dramatically from those late 1960’s.

And we are well aware of the Noble deeds of those Western Medias to twist the truth, provide misguiding half truths and maligning our culture.
Well the western media have every justification for their own misdeeds.

When I have a great admiration for our Author for his rich literature, and dedication in his work,
I don’t want to litter this thread with needless arguments with you @idonotlikeusernames.

[Eiwynn]

This is a gentle reminder to please keep conversations directed at the topic at hand and not at the individuals themselves. Focusing replies on the individuals themselves instead of the topic at hand can lead to friction between members and often causes the thread to derail.

Please remember that we can always agree to disagree.

Finally, if you see disrespectful posts please do not reply to them. Rather please use the report feature and let forum staff de-escalate friction.

[Gforce]

Here seems that everyone is finishing the last chapter with selling almost all his mules either to buy steel weapons for war or to bring the yeomanry and the helots to their side. And all are left with around 15-20 mules at best.

I completely disagree with this strategy. I have a thinking that we will need those mules more than ever in the next year.
We will need them for smuggling, may be for bringing back food grains for our even more number of followers than we ever had in the hard winter, or for carrying looted/bought steel weapons, armor and other stuffs.

So I have worked out some strategy that will make me a folk hero among the yeomanry as well as among the helots. While still keeping almost all the mules with me.

[Ramidel]

It’s unlikely that we’ll need more than 16 mules. Remember that a mule train longer than 11 mules attracts unwanted attention from Theurges.

Now, you don’t need to sell any if you go with a profitable high-anarchy strategy, but if you prefer not to spend the winter wantonly breaking things,

[Eric_knight]

I didn’t know the mules can survive in the end if we keep them…

[Gforce]

But while carrying back grains from the Tithe barns we were able to use as much mules as possible. And never got caught by any Theurge.

It is possible even with low anarchy. You just need to spare the lives of the authorities at the 4th Harrowing, or can also have a fair trial for the authorities to limit your anarchy within 2 to 3.
Then in the winter, just raid Tithe barns and Noble grain barns alternatively whenever there is a demand.(I also raided the Architelone)
So at last you will find your anarchy level at 18-19, and can have Simon.
Meanwhile you need to convince helots and yeomanry for joining your rebellion.
You will automatically be named as a folk hero.

[Ramidel]

I assume that your Ch. 4 strategy is not to stand and fight.

[Gforce]

Yeah, fighting the Phalangites, when your outlaws have little to no expertise is complete madness. You will loose 2/3rd or even more of your followers. Better fight and finish them off when you are well prepared, have a well trained standing army.
But in this 1st game, it is not fair to send your followers to get butchered by these Phalangites.
I prefer, my followers infiltrate into the Rim. Then with the Kryptast secret I can easily get a Theurge forged Sword for my little band.
Get Yebben some basic training.
Travel for seeking the renegade Theurge.
I will only strike them when I have a fair chance of defeating them decisively.