Choice of Rebels-Uprising Help/Hints


#628

Being a noble is most of it. Also, not attacking nobles. (They’re kinda squiffy about cosmopolitanism, unlike yeomen.)


#629

Try practically all of it, oh ye great master of understatements. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Not surprisingly since the Shayardene ones who might be sympathetic to the idea of rebellion and overthrowing the Hegemony already seem to have by and large thrown in their lot with the Halassur funded Laconnier usurpers. :unamused:


#630

It’s not even that. They respect the old blood and old Shayardene ways, but they also respect an old-blooded Shayardene who’s willing to give all that up by taking a Karagond name.

It’s the yeoman class who are mostly “Shayardmen proud and true.”

And even a helot can earn a certain degree of tolerance from the nobility - and much more than tolerance in later books. Meanwhile, I’m sure that Havenstone has set up traps that lie in wait for our aristocratic MCs :slight_smile:


#631

Yeah, I’m honestly looking forward to seeing how our dear author is going to handle that, even in our European systems it most often took about 2-3 generations for the newly ennobled to be properly viewed as part of the nobility. instead of jumped up commoners. Considering the Hegemony has a caste system that makes India’s look like a Mary Poppins act and no mechanisms at all for “elevating” deserving individuals out of the lower classes (because the religion flat out states nobody from the lower castes and classes will ever be deserving).

You betcha! For starters Halassur isn’t funding the Laconniers out of the kindness of their hearts in the spirit of the brotherhood of mankind to free the oppressed peoples of the Hegemony or some such.
Then there’s all of the noble business as usual, involving copious amounts of the stuff Mara’s dreams are made of that they’re certainly not going to put on hold or quit in the face of an impending regime change and all of that’s probably the tiniest tip of the iceberg.


#632

Makes sense. I just did a 2COM/1CHA Ruthless/Devout/Homelander Aristocrat playthrough where I copied the strategy in my “Aristocrat Wisard” guide, but I assaulted the Brecklanders to get 7 more Noble points out of it.

Earnn looks embarrassed. “Well…not that many helots were willing to talk to us, milord. Reckon they don’t see us as their rebellion.”

But…

Another scout volunteers, “Mikal de Rose led a band of Phalangites and a Theurge off into the Great Brecks. Said he’d heard you would be leading a sheep raid there. As far as we can make out from talking to his retainers, milord, that was something kurios de Rose made up out of whole cloth, just to lead them away where they’ll do no damage.”

and thus…

You brace yourselves for the next round of attack…and slowly, incredulously realize that none is coming. All the movement you can see through the trees is withdrawal. Without Theurgic support, the Phalangites aren’t foolish enough to keep assaulting an uphill position against a force well supplied with archers.

Worth.

Guess Reynard de Eramant will not be the champion of the slaves that so many hoped he would be. The nobility and free folk will prosper, though.


I find that in Aristo playthroughs where I let the Harrowing happen, I’m going to piss off the Helots anyways, so it helps to use Homelander to at least get the Yeomen positively predisposed to me.


#633

Well, if you piss off the helots, then you can always pay them off later.


#634

And I do, but I need a Winter recruitment source haha.

Anyways, I guess it’s still doable as Cosmopolitan, but don’t quote me on that.

Meanwhile, I’m sure that Havenstone has set up traps that lie in wait for our aristocratic MCs :slight_smile:

I’m not sure about a trap for Aristo players, but IIRC, Havenstone mentioned that Low Anarchy players will face larger Hegemonic armies (because they aren’t off restoring order to Shayard). This will lead to more tactical challenges compared to a High Anarchy player (especially one with High CHA). It seems that Aristocrats will like Low Anarchy, judging by Suzane refusing to join your rebellion if you have even moderate Anarchy.


#635

I refer to a trap for aristocrats to balance out the fact that helots don’t get easy access to aristocratic support, and in general aristos have a lot of advantages (which is why they tend to lead in the first place).

Suzane isn’t a typical aristo any more than Kala is a typical helot. She joins you because she imagines that your rebellion will be peaceful and orderly in general, while most aristocrats care whether you’re targeting aristocrats.

I mean, almost nobody cares if you knock off Alastor garrisons left and right, except Suzane. Suzane doesn’t see that you’re fighting the Hegemony; she just sees what happens when the Keriatou lose their grip on the Rim because they can’t afford to garrison market towns. Everyone arms themselves or hires guards, and uses those weapons to take care of long-simmering feuds and vendettas because the Alastors can’t effectively police them, while starving yeomen attack market towns to get enough grain to eat. Other people don’t blame you for that effect - just Suzane.


#636

Yeah, you have a point. I originally thought that recruitment depended on how much people love you, but past a relatively low floor, it doesn’t look like it does. Then it seems like Aristocrat players have it pretty good compared to Helot players, because it doesn’t look like there’s much advantage to having Helots love you to high heaven.

Then again, for 2INT Secret Theurges or 2CHA Low Anarchy players, the advantages provided by playing nice with Aristocrats are also superfluous, since you already have a way to eliminate all the Theurges.

Overall, the differences seem fairly minimal between Helot and Aristocrat, but it does seem that 2COM Aristocrats have an advantage going into the final round. I’m not sure what builds would favor a Helot, tbh.


#637

As of now, the one area where Homelander helots win is with Carles’ survival.

Other than that, the fact is that aristos are a lot harder to buy off than helots are. Also, aristos have the free use of Calea’s support in dealing with Hector and spying on the enemy, they have Ismene de Galis to help with aristo rep and the Architelone, lower-INT aristos can teach reading…

Yeah. I think the area where there’s the least effective difference is probably 2INT, because those helots can teach reading and writing, and a Secret Theurge is an I-win button for the finale.


#638

Hmmm…I guess that a Helot has an easier time getting to +51 Helot Cred (the number required to secure the Helot’s aid in the battle) than an Aristocrat has of getting to +101. An Aristocrat can do it (pay the helots, brutalize authorities, noble barn/estate raids, murder the de Merres), but the path requires pissing off other factions…in effect, the Aristocrat converts himself into a Helot.


#639

This is true, a helot Theurge is also the most damaging the to Hegemony’s prestige and the Xthonic religion both.
That said everything has trade-offs and educating your minions is more likely to make them less obedient and the helot mc doesn’t get any natural, inculcated “deference” from their followers. Then again our resident Tiger used to call helots the hard mode, what I want to do the “impossible” mode and also called for the aristo’s to not have it as easy as they do now. :wink:

I’m not sure I’d go as far as “win” here Carles seems to be a spy for Halassur, the rival superpower with its own agenda who are also backing the Laconnier pretenders.
It goes for both helots and aristo’s that being a homelander helps with getting the band as large as possible, provided that’s what you’re aiming for.

I also think succesful aristo’s can basically take over the Laconnier cause (and title) if they’re so inclined, helots not so much.

Well the author did hint at some opportunistic possible Calea “support” for helots but that will be the furthest thing from “free” as I understand it. My mc would also rather die then give into Calea’s whims of course.


#640

This is true, a helot Theurge is also the most damaging the to Hegemony’s prestige and the Xthonic religion both.
That said everything has trade-offs and educating your minions is more likely to make them less obedient and the helot mc doesn’t get any natural, inculcated “deference” from their followers. Then again our resident Tiger used to call helots the hard mode, what I want to do the “impossible” mode and also called for the aristo’s to not have it as easy as they do now. :wink:

I wouldn’t say that there’s an easymode or a hardmode…I guess in the particular situation of a 2COM build where you play nice with the aristos, being an Aristocrat would make the final battle easier. But for Secret Theurge or 2CHA Low Anarchy, the numerical advantage endowed by playing nice with Helots would give an advantage to the Helot (or for a traitorous Aristocrat that becomes a de facto Helot). For other builds, there’s minimal gameplay differences IME…in Book 1, at least.

I also think succesful aristo’s can basically take over the Laconnier cause (and title) if they’re so inclined, helots not so much.

But I thought the whole point of the Laconnier Conspiracy was to place a descendant of the last Shayardene queen on the throne of a free Shayard (analogous to the Golden Company and the Blackfyre Pretenders in Game of Thrones). They’re not going to give up the entirety of their work to a petty aristo like you…not without a fight, at least.

Well the author did hint at some opportunistic possible Calea “support” for helots but that will be the furthest thing from “free” as I understand it. My mc would also rather die then give into Calea’s whims of course.

I’d say sleeping with Calea is a much smaller price to pay than most things I’ve lost in the rebellion thusfar.


#641

Well like almost all of my characters my mc here is super-duper gay, so sleeping with Calea would not be something he’d naturally be inclined to even consider, on top of that she’s already killed one his crushes (poor Dann. :cry: ) and we know she disposes of her helot boytoys whenever she gets tired of them. Oh, and she’s from the family my mc probably hates more than anything.
So I’d say that price would be impossibly high.


#642

Hey, my helot MC ain’t one for scruples or revenge that doesn’t serve his purposes. If getting with Calea can potentially help legitimatize any claim to “lost nobility” that he might be inclined to seek, then he’ll suddenly be all for letting bygones be bygones. He was always in it primarily for himself anyways, with the freedom of his fellow helots, while still something he’d like to see, was always secondary to his personal ambitions.


#643

Well Calea still wouldn’t be the one my mc would want to get close to in that case. If you want to end up the sex-toy of a perverted noble and are okay with the rebellion ending in a restoration of sorts it seems you can make out with prince(ss) nippletwister who will be the same gender as Breden apparently, so at least they can be male.


#644

I doubt we’d end up as her toy, to be honest. Though I’m glad to be reminded of the prince(ss)’s nickname. Good meme is good.


#645

I don’t think Calea really regards helots as people, her brother certainly doesn’t and in the Hegemony’s caste system that’s not an uncommon view in the higher castes and echelons of society.


#646

What MC is the best/easiest for beating the army? Is it 2 COM, 2 INT or 2 CHA?
Also can you beat the army without losing that much followers? It seems a bit counterproductive to lose most of your followers in the fighting after you worked hard recruiting people.


#647

Eh, I guess we’ll see in future games. I doubt Havenstone will let Calea be too one note, though it’s unlikely she’ll be in it for anyone but herself and possibly her family.