I would love to see Placeholder Name to make it through… at least once, somewhere 
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In my college D&D game, with noble naming conventions not unlike the XoR gameworld’s, the frequently appearing “random d’Loriad” became an actual “Cousin Random!”
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I am having a hard time keeping track of cast, but I’m not particularly good with names irl. I wouldn’t expect something bad happening to the band while you were away in the Xaos lands to have much of an emotional impact on casual readers. They probably won’t remember who Pin or Yebben are after so many words away.
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I am also having a hard time with the characters so far. Minus big ones like Suzane and Brenden who we have constant contact with, kinda slips
I didn’t even know we had the smart accountant lad till we had the option for him as a replacement command
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Book 1 - no.
Book 2 - yes.
I think the replayreadability factor here is working in your favour, though it takes time to kick in. I read book 2 3-ish times and the only names I can confidently recall are Cerlotta and M’kyar. I do remember characters well enough, but putting a name to them might be a challange. But that’s not really a problem, is it? When the complicated weave of plot and/or intrigue brings some characters or mentions of characters back, hundreds of pages after we last seen them you can just evoke them with an image along with the name.
I don’t think I ever got that part. Isn’t being a theurge and having theurgic spears in book 1 mutually exclusive? Or do you always get them if you failed at stopping the harrowing and got locked up? Anyways - is being penetrable to theurgic spears also being penetrable to non-theurgic weaponry?
I’m not trying to be nitpicky at all, I’m more than aware that there’s always going to be a disconnect between the science of our world and the reality of the story’s world, hence the name of the bloody genre. But the more magic system is grounded and fleshed out the more easily do real-world-related queries pop up (as in, variables from real world are injected into the semi-subconscious process of establishing coherence). I’m more likely to raise an eyebrow at a curious application of sympathy from a young redhead arcanist than at Gandalf pulling a rabbit out of a hat. I’m less inclined to be unfazed by folks ingesting metals than by little girls sprouting invisible blades from their knuckles (and I’m inclined to believe my references too obscure to carry any information, my apologies).
I personally prefer the former, I think the grounded, fleshed out magic is more difficult to pull off but also more rewarding if you manage it.
I remember Pin and Yebben very well. Pin in fact was one of my favourite characters.
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Like, I dare say, most professional politicians with any degree of success. 
So do your NCO’s keep track of your marines’ names for you then? 
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Oh, I should rephrase my comments because this wasn’t what I was saying.
At a baseline, there’s a disconnect between the science of our world and the reality of our world, and likewise there’d be a disconnect between the science of the story’s world and the reality of the story’s world. My assertion is that there can exist an enormous gap between the science of our world and the science of the story’s world without there being a significant gap between the reality of each (blood magic aside). This has to do with what science is: it’s our method to grow our knowledge through testable hypotheses and models. We aim to understand our universe as we’ve observed it, but this is not equivalent to the universe itself.
I then claim that our base reality at the scale of human existence generally carries over to fictional settings (that aren’t actively exploring strange, otherworldly physics utterly unlike our own) because it’s inherent to how we experience the world. Imagine writing for a world where momentum doesn’t exist as a concept, for example. Which is to say, my answer to the question of
is that they have to, one way or another, because they describe how the world works. But their existence doesn’t strictly imply much about the causes behind the action, which itself is reflective of Newtonian physics. Principia made no claims as to the fundamental cause of gravity, just that its mathematical description of gravity works for the observed phenomena of the time. Maybe the base units of ΧoR’s imagined reality are the 4+1 elements, or maybe it’s one-dimensional strings, or something entirely different. Maybe ‘space’ is ΧoR is a vacuum, or maybe it’s made of luminiferous aether, or something entirely different. And any knowledge we do gain can’t be assumed as the end of the road for discovery: there is always the possibility of something unknown. These aren’t things we can know without experiments in the story — or with Word of God, the author (though even then, proponents of Death of the Author would argue against that).
Only after all that do we get to what I think you’re actually interested in, the ‘hardness’ of the magic system, which I admit I only implicitly addressed at first.
My view for understanding blood magic in ΧoR is to begin from an assumption that blood magic can do nothing, and then building up from there. Works of other people’s Theurgy become phenomena with only vague and/or hypothetical explanations. Works of Theurgy more familiar to us become phenomena with a workable explanation. Gradually, we see more of the latter become the former, just like how the mechanics of Theurgic flight, biological change, and Xaos-storms have (to varying extents) been illuminated so far in Stormwright. Sometimes explanations can imply certain possibilities: testing whether that hypothesis reflects reality would test the strength of those explanations. But these explanations are not necessarily the truth of the world; they’re just useful mechanisms for interacting with the world.
In this way, we weave this magic onto our previous understanding of the world as something that exists. And, importantly, I don’t think there’s much to suggest that blood magic inherently suspends the behavior of base reality (though this seems very similar to what the meta-telos suspension used in Xaos-storms and Seracca biology does, in a targeted way): while an object is subject to blood magic, it’s still subject to the world. Permanent Changes are the clearest example of this: a Theurge-forged sword still behaves as a sword, and a Xaos-changed person is subject to the same physics as anyone else.
This: you always get them if you fail to stop the Harrowing.
We’ve yet to observe a case where a Theurge’s cowl has been penetrated while it was actively being protected (it takes distracting them, or forcing them to expend so much aetherial blood, that they stop protecting it — often with fatal consequences during the battle of the Whendward), but as far as we know Theurge-forged weapons are special mostly in being inhumanly sharp. For practical purposes, we don’t particularly have reason to believe that the technology exists in ΧoR to penetrate it with mundane methods. But if we placed magecloth under a water jet cutter, who’s to say?
Due to the cowl’s property of being actively enhanced rather than permanently enhanced, there are hypothetically ways to “penetrate” it that don’t involve directly overcoming the Theurgic gap, due to the aforementioned limits from concentration and aether supply. If the force of an impact is still distributed, for instance, it’d still hurt, and hurt them enough and maybe they won’t be able to maintain the Change. Maybe one fatal blow wouldn’t do the trick, but twenty would: a problem that Theurges would rarely face because of their air superiority.
Or, to avoid speculation altogether, hurting someplace unprotected by the cowl. Alira’s able to nail one such shot into a narrow gap when a Theurge stayed still for too long (fighting us). Or how the score for Theurges vs Bees is currently a dominating victory for the bees.
average interaction with that random counterrevolutionary we met in a bar 10 years ago, circa 1 year after the Fall of Aekos
Speaking of nonsensical things, this phrase:
led me down a brief rabbit hole into English law and history that included such gems as the Great Parliament of the Tinners and the Lord Warden of the Stannaries and Henry VII’s brief 1496–7 war against Scotland.
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No but it is a test I need to study for. Normally my first order of business taking over a unit is to get bios with headshots from every Marine, and I do an interview with all the NCOs after I read up on them. Typically do the same with my students as well.
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@Havenstone Does the Syntechnia have any notable sub-factions? It’s been mentioned that they’re increasingly frustrated with Karagon’s restrictions, but does the leadership have conflicting ideas about how this should be dealt with?
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What is the link to the most rescent draft of Game 2? Is it the one that was last updated in December 2022?
PS: this is the first time that I have written anything in his site and the only way to comment that I can see is by using the “reply” button, so if I @ someone, this is accidental
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It’s the link at the top, Havenstone has no patreon so the public version is the most recent version and the only version
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Yup it is
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Welcome, @Vrangel_RIP! I’ve spent most of the year making a world model I’m happy with and planning some of the overarching stories that will run through Games 2-5, but for the last couple months I’ve been banging away at Ch 2. So that link should get a major update soon.
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The de Syrnon bloodline is a Shayardene one, i.e. from Grand Shayard.
1- How much credibility/relationship points would de Syrnon claimant MC would risk/lose with his Laconnier (and other Homelander factions) supporter base if he decided to move his faction’s capital from Grand Shayard to Aveche? (between and/or during G4-G5)
2- Would MC’s pragmatism be understood/accepted as intended, or might it instead perhaps be cynically misconstrued as “abandoning House de Syrnon’s roots/birthright?”
3- Alternatively, perhaps there may be a more nuanced opinion of dissenters (towards MC’s envisioned “let’s move our HQ from Grand Shayard to Aveche” agenda): “Aveche is too contested for the time being; don’t put the cart before the horse, it’s better to first decisively win our G5 wars before we commit to moving the capital to Aveche.”
4- Per your current envisioned map/resources, what are the logistical pros and cons of “Archonty Shayard+Archonty Erezza only”-sized state with Aveche as the capital, versus a “Archonty Shayard+Archonty Erezza only”-sized state with Grand Shayard as its capital?
Again, I currently grasp/accept that Aveche, in general, will be super-contested amongst multiple factions (once the time comes to compete in G4-G5), but what other factors should I consider?
Irduin, the town where you’ll spend most of this chapter, is a bit more prosperous than Rim Square and significantly better connected to the rest of the Hegemony. It’s definitely not an impoverished wilderness like the Brecks.
On another note, as fellow Southriding elite families, did House de Irde ever have any special relationship with House de Syrnon (e.g. married into the royal family as consort(s), had special trade agreement(s), and/or were favored retainers/administrators of the budding Shayardene empire) back in the founding days of Shayard’s gradual expansion?
If…
1- Abelard turns out to be too stuffy/old-fashioned (to be considered an acceptable ‘forged credentials’ king for Laconnier MC to back),
2- and if MC’s hunches about House de Irde’s hypothetical close ties with House de Syrnon are correct,
3- AND if MC comes to believe that directly occupying the coveted de Syrnon throne himself would put too huge of a target on his back,
MC may instead consider seeking to elevate one of the (relatively more progressive/open-minded) House de Irde aristo NPCs to the de Syrnon throne.
Finally, you might be able to win the allegiance of weaker factions in each nation, who (a) have given up their hope of prevailing against the dominant local leadership using only their own resources, and (b) could be persuaded to accept your sovereignty in exchange for the assistance that strengthens them enough to seize power from the current rulers. A koinon of usurpers would be tough to form and hold together, but conceivable.
If MC did hypothetically help his and Cerlota’s top favorite Erezzianno family triumph over the rest, then would said family demand a relatively cheaper price for their ongoing loyalty and/or collaboration to MC’s aspiring imperial power? (Compared to MC making deals with multiple top Erezziano families)
Think back on your own past speculation about the Laconniers operating like Kryptasts (and my own past related speculation that the Laconniers have partially hijacked the Kryptasts).
Is it possible that Abelard’s refusal to openly rebel (aka save the children from the woodchipper) is not necessarily borne out of cowardice, but as a result of reluctantly following protocol/orders to minimize the risk of being caught (and then potentially being interrogated/forced by the Hegemony to prematurely expose the Laconnier infiltration of the Kryptasts?).
It’s one thing to covertly break out two aspiring rebels (Breden and MC) from a lightly guarded Keriatou prison cell, but it’s another matter to risk one’s life to take on multiple Theurges and soldiers all by yourself in a public setting (aka Game 1’s Harrowing in Rim Square). With Southriding families such as his own presumably under tighter scrutiny by the Hegemony (compared to MC’s small-time community in the Rim), Abelard doesn’t have much leeway to openly act against the Hegemony, right?
The Laconniers have an established track record of openly fighting and losing against the Hegemony three times, so it shouldn’t come as a surprise that they are much inclined to preserve their secrecy/“invisible hand” influence at all costs.
How’s this for a perceived tradeoff: rather than paying out of his own pocket, perhaps the most crucial asset that Abelard is endangering is both his faction’s (and his own) social capital/credibility?
To specify, my current hunch tells me that the most devout Xthonists amongst the Laconniers (and amongst other Homelander factions) are severely displeased with the Laconniers’ current direction/choice of benefactor (aka being a pawn of the “child-killer heathen” Halassurqs).
You can be one of many flavors of authoritarian, including the idealistic kind. I’m just not trying to write any of those flavors as the natural, optimal, or divinely appointed outcome.
@Havenstone, will a Juan Carlos-inspired direction be possible for MCs? (aka MC deliberately worming their way into the line of succession of a dictatorship for the explicit purpose of last-minute leveraging their newfound leadership to introduce democratic reforms)
Granted, I still do remember past discussions mentioning how the ingrained “hierarchy/authoritarianism is everything” philosophy of XoR’s setting will most likely limit the democratic reforms to “flawed rule by oligarchs,” at best, but my above question still stands.
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Dall-E tries its best to show how a Karagond Army might look…a Theurge with fire ready to throw, well-armored knights, and a giant Plektos in the background.
(The AI tends to struggle with prompts like this).
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Wonder how much blood it would take to make the ultra mega Plektos. It could be Kleitos’ version of the Death Star.
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Using Serracan plektosis to create my own. Unleash (literally) Wolfzilla!
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Since we have specialization for the two schools of magic, is it possible to specialize in different, say two, schools, for charisma and combat as well? like pathos vs logos.
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I meant indifference more than cowardice, but you know what, it is cowardice — a natural cowardice, one that I’d probably share in those circumstances, but cowardice nevertheless — and such fear being institutional doesn’t make it any better, I’d say. Basically, if that’s what following protocol entails, then it means protocol is standing by as helots die, and in this case as helot children die, all for the sake of the mission. And that mission? Placing some descendant of the family whose claim to rule is that their ancestor had the strongest army in the region? Retvrning to traditions that they’ve seemingly reinvented? Those are the weights on the scale.
It is natural, I think, to not endanger your own life for the slim chance of saving a stranger’s, especially when faced with reality-warping blood mages. That’s the kind of cowardice that is interpolated onto every being under Hegemony, and the kind that should be forgiven. It takes a kind of madness to overcome that fear: that’s the madness that places our protagonist at a fulcrum of history. And it’s why I’m at least willing to view some aristo MCs as one of the “good aristos” — and on the reverse, why Abelard’s actions don’t make me perceive him as one.
The Laconniers have their own interests. At the moment, the lives of Pin, Elery, Yebben, and all those folk weren’t a part of it. And there hasn’t been much indication for me that such people hold value to Them beyond being tools to wield against the Karagonds while the Laconniers continue hiding in the shadows.
There’s a peculiar stability to relationships where both sides see themselves as taking advantage of the other. Halassur can wield the empire-killer of nationalism against the great enemy; the Laconniers can receive wealth and weaponry that no doubt could be turned against Halassur should the time ever come.
It’s the United States arming the mujahideen in Afghanistan against the Soviet Union.
What makes Halassur such a potentially useful partner to the Laconniers is that the Laconniers weren’t going to have a good time winning over many of the people they’d alienate anyway: the people of Erezza. A Shayarin court, purging foreign influence — and a revanchist conquest of “Aveche” would probably be a non-starter with Soretto.
- (Incidentally, I’ve only just noticed that, as a consequence of our characters’ own geographic limitations, the name “Avezia” has never appeared once to date in the core Choice of Rebels text; it’s always referred to as “Aveche”)
Not to mention that for now, such arrangements are likely secret; and even hard proof can struggle to shake ideological belief. Take for example how our backwoods rebels can potentially perceive the gift of Theurge-forged spears:
Yet looking at the spear juddering from the rocky outcrop, you found yourself a believer—at least for a few moments. There is a True Queen somewhere, or True King. Hearing that a rebellion had begun at last, They have sent you Their most precious weapons to bear in defense of Shayard. It sent a shiver down your spine.
At the end of the day, the Laconniers work towards the world they desire, and the powers that be of Halassur works towards the world they desire. It just so happens that there’s probably significant overlap between the two, not out of any ideological loyalty to each other, but as mere consequence.
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I don’t think so, actually. We have been shown that there are numerous ‘heretical’ interpretation’s of the Xthonic state-religion of the Hegemony and even within the state-imposed orthodoxy of the 'Karagond ‘Canon’, sufficient differences have developed between the archonties. IIRC the biggest such heresy in Shayard, that of the Shayardene Codex, is only really popular within Shayard itself. I think the Shayardene priesthood could easily excuse an alliance with Hallasur on the basis that the other peoples of the Hegemony are little better than heathens anyway, given the ‘wrongness’ of their Xthonic worship.
EDIT: Speaking of religion, how is the religious structure organised? Shayard appears to have an ‘Archimandrite’, which sounds rather low ranking. Not even worth of a full-on Episkopos? And what is the relationship of the Eclects to this hierarchy? All Ennearchs are Eclects but Thneton is the one leading the Ecclesiasts, so does he lead the ‘Church’ structure in theory? Yet when the MC is declared Eclect by Linos, he dislikes it if you go leading on sacraments on your own. You’d think the person chosen by the Angels would have that power at least.
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