Choice of Rebels: Stormwright (XoR2 WIP)

The heart of the answer is “beat his system” – even an all-powerful mage can’t directly dominate a continent. As for him personally, I commented on this a year and a half ago:

As for the Floating Palace:

Yep, just tens or hundreds of thousands, depending on how long you reign. It’s a powerful symbol if you manage it.

@11110 , let me get back to you on those big questions – they’re not forgotten, but I can’t just toss off answers to them like I can the other, simpler questions in this post. :slight_smile:

A linear Ward would prevent stuff going through it just fine. It would (obviously) not prevent stuff going around it. From the time the last Border Ward was fired up under Eosphora and her Ennearchs, there’s never been a moment when the Hegemony has not been completely encircled – but by nine great Wards end-to-end, not a single loop.

Pushing out a Ward involves adding a new arc of wall outside it, then doing something to make the Ward recognize the outer arc rather than the inner one as the relevant wall. The force of exclusion then rolls from one to the other, pushing back anything that the Ward rejects in the newly added zone.

That’s to keep that Ward a continuous line. In theory they wouldn’t need to – Horion’s team could have built a wall sticking out perpendicular to the current Ward and Changed it so that instead of running to the next Ward in Wiendrj, the southwestern border ward now ran out into the Xaos lands and stopped there. But that would be…suboptimal.

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You mention they need to build an arch over water to have a ward go over water does the ward effect extend into and through the water?

For the gates in the ward does the ward effect go over the top of the gate? How is the effect prevented from going into the gatehouse if so?

Can you walk under the floating place with a weapon or with something changed by theurgy?

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The Ward effect goes through water as well as earth – the Dead can’t get through by tunnelling until they find an aquifer. :slight_smile: Anywhere you can build a wall, you can get a Ward effect above and below it.

Wardgates are special structures with normal Ward-wall built over and below them. Something in how they’re Theurgically designed allows the Ward to recognize their telos as “door” and allow passage unhindered (or differently hindered) there.

The Floating Palace has no special Ward-like exclusion effects of its own. It’s inside the City-ward of Aekos, but if you’ve managed to get your hands on a weapon – say, by using Cerlota’s Xaos-storm exploit against the Aekos ward in G3 Ch 3 – you would have no trouble carrying that weapon into, under, or over the Palace.

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Guess I know how my justice system will be structured.

Also, I know Phalangites have red scale armor but is it pure red or are there accents? For some reason I was imagining their helmets as black.

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In the demo when you choose your main personality stats, you get one of the recruitable characters from the previous game Korszata & Bjel/Betthune, Etthena/Diakon Edwer.

My main question here is, if we didn’t get one or more of these recruitable characters in the first game will we have a chance to meet and recruit them in game 2, or worst case fight them?

I also saw that the minimum to recruit Simon/Suzane is to have 20 anarchy in the demo. Is 21 anarchy considered high anarchy? I know this is very nitpicking to ask.

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I think it’s been confirmed we will meet them in some capacity. It will depend on how the rebellion has gone whether the meeting is antagonistic or not.

I don’t think 21 is necessarily high, but it is the threshold at which disruption in the Rim is noticeable. Kalt can still find the MC to be too soft even if recruited.

Looking at the code for how high anarchy can go, I think the Rim is such a backwater that its effect can still be diluted without any monumental efforts if you want to change direction going forward. My MC spent all winter stealing from the merchants to avoid alienating anyone else, but will probably want to try to get them on side as well going forward.

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Mathematics has got about to European Renaissance levels. Theurges and engineers are thoroughly familiar with algebra and trigonometry, but no one has invented Cartesian geometry or calculus.

Sociology, psychology, economics, and political thinking are all still just parts of philosophy; none of them has anything resembling the data-driven empiricism most people think of today when we talk about “social science.” Nor will they for centuries. Studying culture isn’t yet conceived as a science in the gameworld either.

Economically, the Karagond Syntechnia guildmasters are the only people allowed to act in a bank-like way – making formal large-scale loans to the army, the priesthood, and the great magnates (mostly noble, mostly Karagond) of the Hegemony. For everyone else, small-scale, high-interest credit is widely available from local merchants, or the local lord/lady.

The urban areas along river/canal corridors have a pretty monetized economy for everyday transactions, relying on silver and gold struck in the Hegemony’s fifty-odd mints. In more rural areas, people tend to get by without much coin, using other locally variable means of keeping track of mutual obligations.

For transactions in between the “day-to-day” and “fund an army” scale, the Syntechnia merchants use their formal knot and seal system to avoid the need to constantly move hard currency around, and also to keep certain guarantees and transactions out of view of the Telones, who aren’t taught the whole knot-language. For the most part, that’s the Hegemony’s equivalent of promissory notes and bills of exchange.

The major language groups roughly correspond to the provinces, though all of them have a lot of distinctive dialects. For Wiendrj in particular those dialects vary enough that they should really be considered as about two dozen different languages, with local dialect variation almost valley-to-valley through the mountains. You’ll get more details on the Shayarin language in Ch 2 when I’m done with it. The Koine (common) Karagond language unites the provinces.

There isn’t really “an” imperial bureaucracy – none of the gameworld empires have developed China’s repertoire of control. China was relatively rare in our world in its reliance from a very early stage on a centralized, professionalized civil service, where other empires tended to coopt local elites to get things done in ways suited to the local culture and context. The Hegemony sends out its priests, Alastors, and Telones – three very different institutions in scale, literacy levels, and capacity – but also delegates a lot of practical authority to loyal aristarchs. The balance of functions between the local elites and Hegemonic institutions varies wildly from place to place, as done the extent of record-keeping.

Theurgy helps with the construction and maintenance of deep wells, aqueducts, and big sewer drains, but the big cities are still for the most part miasmic and unsanitary. Only the intervention of healing mages keep the urban population from collapsing due to epidemics.

This is going to be one of the things that correlates with how big you want your Game 5 realm to be. Satisfied with a small state? You can do more with whatever state capacity you’ve managed to preserve/create, including making your population more legible to you and exerting more control over institutions. Want to try to build a new big empire on the ruins of the collapsed empire? …I don’t want to prejudge the emergent results of Game 5 now, but even if you’re pursuing a low-anarchy strategy, I think it would be pretty nearly impossible to come out of an imperial collapse (when plenty of others will be stirring up chaos!) with a net gain in state capacity and the legibility of your population on a continent-wide scale.

“A war of ideas through the illicit printing press,” I mentioned in the thread’s first post. It bears emphasising that “press” in the gameworld isn’t a metonym for “newspaper.” It’s just the literal machine that lets you do mass printing. Given low literacy and tight control over printing techne by the priesthood, there’s never been a tradition of newspapers in the gameworld.

If you get hold of a press in Grand Shayard, you could fire off a lot of one-page broadsides and chapbooks to reach the yeomanry or free urban poor, maybe short pamphlets of 5-10 pages if you’re trying to sway more literate demographics like the aristos and priests. But no one’s going to be founding the Grand Shayard Times, I’m afraid.

Jonglers, musicians, dramatists performing plays, rhetors performing speeches, acrobats and contortionists. And probably more I haven’t thought of yet. :slight_smile:

Your realm’s post-collapse murder rate (and crime rate more generally) will vary based on total anarchy. A low-anarchy strategy will be helpful for lots of state-building purposes, but inconvenient for any MC who wants lots of criminals to send to the Harrower. A high anarchy approach (that avoids going right off the anarchy cliff) would probably leave you with a rate like the most dangerous non-failed states in our world, say 40 or 50 murders per hundred thousand people.

Let’s reckon that you find someone halfway credible to blame for 60% of those murders (if you wanted to actually solve them beyond a reasonable doubt in a high-anarchy early modern state, you’ll end up with a lot fewer executions). That would yield about 67,000 Harrowed murderers per year across the whole Hegemony at current population levels. If you want to prioritize keeping the palace in the air, that’s one-sixth to one-fifth of your murderers’ blood harvest gone every year before you’ve ripened a single crop or warped a single Plektos.

Obviously a state of the kind you have in mind won’t have murder as its only capital crime. But I think the back-of-envelope estimates above suggest that it will be pretty hard to run a Harrower-state off executions alone without slipping into one or another dystopian outcome. (“100% of murders in my jurisdiction result in someone getting convicted and Harrowed! And 100% of the attempted murders too! That guy was just thinking about killing somebody!” “We recently expanded the death penalty to include ‘loitering with intent’.” “Out here, it’s a capital crime to be Karagond.”)

So, yeah, I think any MC really committed to keeping the palace in the air is going to need to adopt a Harrowing strategy that goes well beyond anything deserving the name of a justice system.

Red with black accents, especially a black accented omphalos symbol, would fit just fine for them. I’m happy to make their helmets black. :slight_smile:

Only K and S will show up regardless of your G1 approach, not Edwer/Etthena, or Bethune/Bjel and Korszata. I mean, I reserve the right to change my mind and make things more complicated for myself any time… but I don’t think I’ll have them join you for anything other than a high G1 score.

Certainly not for the end of G1, by which time I think the most committed high-anarchy runs have been racking up scores in the 60-80 range. But it’s high enough, given what it means for how you’ve played to that point, to turn off Simon/Suzane in Ch 2.

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Ah, that sounds cool.

What sort of helms do they wear? Are they scale as well, or more of a plate construction? Can we see their faces?

Also, I was curious how many Phalangites came from Wiendrj? Seems the nation is known for them.

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Strong resurgence of the feudal elements of the system a distinct possibility in a place like Shayard?

How possible would the start of a parliamentary system be? Thinking something like the early English parliament where there’s a house of peers and the lower house represents merchants and yeoman with larger than normal holdings.

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I mean, it doesn’t need to in the air constantly. Just land it somewhere and occasionally fly it for special occasions.

Maybe strap a set of air cannons on it and rain hell on Hallassur from above.

“The blood of the wicked shall fuel our liberation of the people from the false gods!”

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If I’m reading this right, going into game 2 Ch 2 with 21 anarchy, S will have second thoughts about our rebellion, or are you referring to game 1 Ch 2 where S won’t join our rebellion and we get K instead?

If the former is true, then I might be in trouble, as I put S as leader of the band, while I took a holiday in the Xaos Lands. :sunglasses: :desert:

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Imperial collapse, sure, but the way I see it state capacity and capability can be uneven and vary widely between one capital “model” province and the rest of the realm, to the extent it might represent warlord or early republic china somewhat. Depending on if the mc gets to develop a model province state capacity might actually improve there while declining everywhere else.
In very short, use the remaining telone corps to build a professional, or at least more professional and divorced from any religion than there is now, administrative apparatus and education system in a model province and then gradually expand from there over decades of post game 5 campaigning.

That is true, beyond the model province my mc may have to accept some of the same temporary tradeoffs nationalist China did like tolerating, if grudgingly, some self-appointed “governors” in a lot of the (new) provinces until the state can expand enough to subsume their de-facto realms again. Obviously due to Japanese invasion the Chinese nationalists never made it this far, which is why my mc hopes for some sort of MAD enforced cold war or even cold peace with Halassur. in addition to those guys we presumably also have to still fight off real internal rebellions like revolutionary France had to for the first decades as well. In short the first decades post liberation will likely be a colossal mess still.

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Idk about mutually assured but I happen to have several floating mountains I need to land to save resources.

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So, can players make math or economic inventions to change this situation?

Also, what exactly will the patent and Monopoly license system that you were talking about look like?

And what kind of judicial system can be created in the case of low anarchy? What will be the crime and conviction rates?

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For helmet design, think something like this, in black: Byzantine Helmets

As I’ve been finalizing the world model, the exact numbers and proportions are shifting a bit – for example, at present I’ve got to change my earlier tentative estimate of how many Phalangites there are in total to be more like 1.8m, rather than 1.4m. But on my current numbers about 527,000 of them (29%) are Wiends, significantly more than from any other province. (Shayard: 24%, Nyryal: 21%, Erezza: 19%, Karagon: 7%) Wiendrj has more of a food deficit than any other province; its handful of big cities are press-ganged much more intensively, and its rural areas routinely send out their young men and women to join the army to stay food secure.

Absolutely. And some sort of parliamentary body of representation will be possible, yes.

Alas, just because it’s grounded doesn’t mean it wouldn’t need its monthly blood infusion to keep it flight-capable.

No, your second guess was correct – I was talking about S joining you in Ch 2 of Game 1.

Definitely. Control in the center and chaos on the periphery describes a lot of late-stage empires (and post-imperial efforts to revive an empire).

Not sure. We’ll see what makes most sense to have on the list of high-INT innovations and inventions for the late game.

You can declare that within the realm, one person or guild has exclusive rights to carry out certain types of production or economic activity…and then decide how much effort you want to put into enforcing it.

A collapsing empire is going to have substantial crime no matter what, but if you’re focused on a small scale territory, a low anarchy MC should be able to keep crime low in their patch. The more territory you’re trying to hold, the more crime will rise. Not going to try to venture numbers or details at this point, since there’s every likelihood I’d change them before we get to the games where they’re relevant.

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I think a good contender is double entry bookkeeping. Basically, went viral during the Renaissance. I don’t think its too much of an exaggeration to say it allowed the Italian city states of the era to marshal their wealth into hard power well out of proportion to their modest means and outperformed much larger neighbors financially. Given the tech level this might be around the right time for it to be introduced and it would give the embracing factions a much higher level of literacy over economies (blood or otherwise). Might be available to a high INT MC who is willing to deal with the merchants.

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What if we added a compartment where theurges could generate a wind vortex that pulls up those below for harrowing like a flying saucer tractor beam? Then we send it over to Halassur and feed it with enemy soldiers!

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Reminds me of a pretty great movie that came out last year. :slight_smile:

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Nope?

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So, obviously no exact numbers right now, but can you tell us what you mean when you say “small-scale”? With an empire as large as the Hegemony, scale is relative, I just want to make sure reader and author expectations aren’t misaligned.

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