Choice of Rebels: Stormwright (XoR2 WIP)

That is only partly true you have to use the best that is available but you can also dispose of (human) resources once they are of no further use or value, both literally and morally. Every choice has repercussions, purging Breden early on makes Elery trust you less and makes recruitment numbers a bit worse but if you plan to make a stand at the end that is more than compensated for by there being no poisoning plot when Breden is absent and that Breden cannot demoralize the band from making that stand and fighting. I have tested this in-game just for the final battle purging Breden means my mc can win without either hiding his theurgy or avoid having to burn down half the forest and suffers less casualties overall.
Plus Breden is fully caught up in the nightmare religion and that coupled with their charisma will likely cause more problems in book 2 than it is worth. I have no doubt other more charismatic followers will come in time and of course they bring their own issues but they may still align better with my or other mc’s than Breden does.

Well even when he was still just a rebel leader Mao purged a fair few people including some lieutenants.

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That’s mao not the greatest example, one man leading rebellion more offen then not end up decatorship which only replace the old or worse than the last regime.

Democry need multiple leaders so there is balance of power, and one didn’t end up a blood thrusty tyrant.

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That is true but establishing a modern, liberal democracy in whatever territories you control in post civil war remains of the Hegemony is completely impossible. A very flawed democracy is likely at the high end of what is going to be possible but that almost certainly requires foregoing any truly imperial ambitions.
Of course my mc does want an appella (quite possibly dominated by a vanguard party and/or political tutelage) and some form of elections to legitimize his rule, but that is mostly because he is set on foregoing and indeed destroying the traditional pillars of legitimacy in the present day Hegemony of the nightmare church and its caste system (which makes social advancement for helots not just impossible but a crime against nature) and any claims to nobility.

It is worth noting that after Mao’s death and before Xi recently undid it the PRC was in effect ruled by committee exactly to prevent a second Mao but those guardrails have now failed even more spectacularly in the era of Xi than US politicians and institutions did under Trump.

Depends on your point of view, as Havenstone said he was one of the more successful radical rebels in recent history who picked the radical “transform (almost) everything” option and managed to get an imperial scale state with a long lasting regime that survived him out of it, albeit at the tradeoff of rivers running red and significant cultural destruction.

As for the game, unlike China in Mao’s time, famine and mass starvation is going to be pretty much inevitable in the game, no matter who your mc and what their goals are and as for cultural destruction my mc, as I have said before, is actually quite likely to attempt his own cultural revolution against the more unsavoury parts of Hegemony culture.

We’ll never truly know now won’t we?

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Did Mao consider that a tradeoff, or was it a perk?

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It might have made china one of the global superpower but these so called reforms are the reason for it’s current worsening situation ( one child policy, skill set of average chinese are worse than a average Mexican despite more focus on education, ungodly amount of corruption, people are literally seen as chesse Pieces more than anywhere else).

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Mao didn’t do those reforms, it was his successor Deng.

Mao broke China and then died.

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one child policy was institute by mao. He fear population was growing too fast and will create problems with can threaten his regime

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No. One-child policy had nothing to do with Mao, he was dead when it was implemented.

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Off topic question

For iPad/iOS release of Stormwright

Will it release on the App Store or will it only be available through the Choice of Games app?

Since spring 2018, Apple hasn’t allowed CoG to publish standalone apps any more – so on iPad/iOS, the only way to get Stormwright will be through the CoG Omnibus app. Any games you bought as standalone apps can also be unlocked in the omnibus for ease of play.

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The modern Chinese state probably looks closer to what Chiang Kai-Shek wanted than what Mao did. Formally his state outlived him, but basically all of his actual ideas were abandoned as unworkable.

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Hi Author. I don’t know if negative feedback is appreciated (but knowing that you’re a good author, I’ll chance that you’re taking all feedback for the utility of it, not for how it may jab or inflate the pride), but I simply have to say that this installment of the rebellion story is hugely disappointing.

I imagine you have no shortage of feedback regarding the plot and such, but what I found the most objectionable was these three: characters, philosophy and immersion.

While in the first installment, there isn’t a single moment where I’m taken out of the story, in this one I found several. The major ones were the crab insult situation and all the discussions with Sojourn leaders, namely the one with the alastor, the one with the Nyr diplomat and the one with the guardian.

Coincidentally these are also the places where I found the quality of philosophy severely lacking. The gold standard being the discussion with Horion and his friend, these were nowhere near that standard. There’s never a moment I didn’t feel the MC preached to, never a moment where it felt like a conversation rather than the author lore dumping thinly disguised as a conversation. You know how people don’t like when characters have plot armour? Guardian/Nyr/Hallasurq points had a plot armour. Neither the MC nor the other characters are ever meaningfully challenged.

Which leads to the characters. In XoR1 I could always tell why x character is doing something. I could always trace their actions back to who they are and why they do what they do. Never on that way of character discovery did a red light go out. Never did I think “hold on, how exactly would that work in the world that I’m shown?”. In XoR2 Roxanne clearly didn’t listen to Sting.

The crab claw character - he just saw a guy dump a boulder on a monster swarm with a power of magic, and his first idea is to fight that guy to the death over an insult? It’s fine that a character would do that, there’s validity to thoughtless, fury-driven characters. But such a character being able to survive and thrive in an extremely hostile environment where more often than not the thing he would rage at would be his demise is a lot hand waving to ask for from a reader. Unless he’s not thoughtless normally and doesn’t jump at any threat he sees, only does it this once, because the plot wants him to, in which case…

Pretty much the same is the issue with other characters. Yed is inconsistent with his sentiments. The Sojourn leader is smart and capable in all situations except the one or two when plot demands him to not be. The Nyr diplomat is difficult to reconcile with the world I’m shown. The Abhumans are plot armoured Mary Sues (it’s fine if they are the heroes of the story, it just needs to be discovered and stand against challange, the author’s knowledge of X being awesome should not lead to plot being driven by preconception that X is awesome). And most of all the MC is neutered in regards to these issues. In XoR1 whenever I felt like I’d like to challenge X event or person or opinion or information being shared, I was pleasantly surprised that I could. Sometimes it would be just cosmetic, sometimes it would make a firebrand helot sacrifice himself to save MCs life.

I’m sorry for the longwinded and negative opinion. If I wasn’t such a huge fan of yours, Author, I wouldn’t even bother sharing it. But I know how rare great prose is and how terrible a waste it would be not to make more of it. Stormwright still has your marvellous penmanship and world building. Just the routes you choose require infinitely more effort to indulge and still manage a good quality fiction.

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Don’t be, at all. :slight_smile: I value all feedback, positive or negative, and especially from people I know are sincere fans (who if I’m not mistaken long ago expressed some worries about the direction of G2). I just wanted the first response to be thank you, and your comments are welcome here. Look for a more thorough response later.

Edit: So, looking over your post again, the main thing I’d ask is: examples, please, if you don’t mind taking the time! Where specifically did you not find the option to ask or challenge someone that you wanted to? Where was Herne dumb or Yed inconsistent? Where did you feel the Abhumans were “plot armored” and against what?

We won’t necessarily agree in our readings. When it comes to the crab insult, for example, I’m grateful for your feedback but still think that’s consistent with the village as I’ve written it: a place where most residents live with the unspoken fear of being kicked out into the Storms because they pissed off the elders, and where the elders are quick to expel people who look like trouble. I also don’t think it’s implausible that the village would have a culture where insults were taken seriously, and mocking someone’s Change was one of the greatest dishonors you could do to them.

But in other cases, I might well agree. I added the arrogant noble path in G1 after early reader feedback. I can easily imagine adding equivalents here.

The exception, you’ll probably be unsurprised to hear, is for any readers who want the choice to respond to Jev’s gender with outright rejection and intolerance, rather than the tolerant confusion which is at present the far end of the response spectrum. I don’t think all plausible worlds have gender intolerance baked into them, and I’m on board with CoG’s mission to write equal-opportunity escapism for trans and cis people alike.

For any readers unsure whether your thoughts on Jev cross a line that might get you banned from the forum, feel free to PM me.

One last comment: much of the info being dumped in the chapter is by people with an agenda; it shouldn’t be taken as “voice of the author.” By the end of Game 2 both Halassur and the Abhumans will be looking rather different than they seem in their introductions here. The full picture may or may not be any more satisfying to you – we’ll see then – but for the time being, do bear in mind that what we have in Ch 1 isn’t it.

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I’ll try to supply some examples, then. I don’t promise I’ll find them all.

Of course. The only thing that felt odd was Veorn’s and Torane’s willingness to kill or (more likely) die for it. I just re-read it with a different choice (MC doesn’t use theurgy, they struggle more and then just deny his party a refuge) and it reads infinitely better. Fighting a theurge over an insult was the only thing that felt unrealistic (or rather, someone who would do such a thing surviving long enough in xaoslands to become a chief huntsman in a local village).

Herne was dumb when he thought that he can both keep the fact that they might be in Hegemony’s crosshair’s secret and train his followers to fight theurges. It’s even addressed in the text by one of the characters questioning why are they learning to fight theurges.
Yed being inconsistent I can’t find in my second preadthrough, if I recall correctly it was him being utterly deferential to the MC the entire time and in the later parts of the chapter becoming obstinate over something trivial (?).

M’kyar thus far has all the bearings of a Mary Sue. It’s too soon to tell for sure, but from what little is shown of her, that’s how she reads. She either is or seems physically, mentally, morally and emotionally superior to all the characters around her. I could not spot a single flaw so far, other than her penchant for liberal use of a racial slur. So perhaps my opinion is influenced by them being introduced by such a character but in my opinion Abhumans felt plot armored against moral and metaphysical scrutiny. Which examples of I’ll show below.

When the MC asks M’kyar about allying with Hallasurq, she mentions the reason being the injustices of Hegemony. The obvious thing to ask would be - what about the injustices of Hallasurq? Are those ok?
Later in that same conversation when she talks about spirits, she says that they can’t be measured but can be described. That point is absurd, you can derive any number of measurements from a description. MC takes it in like a gospel and moves on to other questions. When the MC questions whether low population density is enough to prevent any abuse of theurgic power, M’kyar give a non-answer and the MC just moves on to another question rather than pointing out that it’s not an answer or asking for a clarification. And that’s a constant trait here, that’s what I meant by the quality of philosophy lowering - whenever the reader finds a non-sequitur or a fallacy in a discussion, the MC doesn’t, the MC just moves on until their total acquiescence at the end of the discussion. When the MC asks why animals, he gets an answer that the Abhumans want to pursue new courses through life and animal glories while retaining human intellect and consciousness. Instead of asking how does she reconcile human intellect and consciousness with animal glories, he asks about walking on two legs. I know what are the benefits and differences between bipedal and quadrupedal locomotion, I imagine a MC with 2 points in intelligence would probably know it too. Both him and I would find it rather more interesting to learn something new - for example how and where do you find equilibrium between a human and an animal form? How does it not work like a set of reversely connected dials? The lazy way of writing would be “it just does, shut up”. But your worldbuilding is very consequential, I never saw any "it just does"s in your prose. This one would be the first.

Another thing is MC being extremely at ease with M’kyar right off the bat. This is the first time he met an Abhuman and before now most of his knowledge of them was based on negative propaganda from Ecclesiarchy/Hegemony. I recall several situations from book one where similar dynamic was played out correctly - the characters (and the MC) where initially hesitant or cautious to steal from the church, or hesitant or cautious to look into the maw of the harrower. Overcoming it was a process, a journey, sometimes one only a couple of sentences long, but still acknowledging what the characters would’ve tought initially.

As for the discussion with Jev, I’m pretty sure my input would be perfectly benign, but I’d rather err on the side of caution. I’ll just limit myself to saying that I don’t think any hostile reaction from the MC would serve any purpose, I didn’t see any gratuitously hostile reactions anywhere else, so why here? My main issue was reconciling that character with the world I’m shown. There are ways of doing that, I’m sure, it’s just that they’re very difficult.

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:slight_smile: Ah, I get it now, fair enough. I’ll add variant text for an MC who’s just brought the cliff down.

I’ll also read back over the Herne/training section in light of your comment that only an idiot would think it was possible to defer the moment when his people realize that Sojourn is overdue for its regular Theurgic invasion.

Yes, yes it is. :slight_smile:

I’m happy to write greater discomfort with M’kyar off the bat, and a recognition that there’s propaganda-since-birth to overcome here.

I’m torn here. Where I’ve skimmed past things a curious/aggressive/philosophically ambitious MC could have more interest in (including things that the Sojourn gang don’t want to talk about and would continue to dodge around rather than answering), it’s not because I’m trying to send a “shut up and run with it” message to the reader. As you’ve noted, that’s generally not how I roll.

It’s because this chapter already has MASSIVE amounts of dialogue and exposition (way, way more than Horion and Linos in G1 Ch 3), which my longsuffering editor has encouraged me to pare down or relocate if possible. :slight_smile: Every dialogue option I add to the Sojourn gang increases the odds that the next negative feedback I get will be “omg what a slog this infodump section goes on for f-ing ever.”

I can look for ways to do the one-or-two-sentence pushback in more places, and see if that reduces the sense that the Abhumans in particular have morality/metaphysics armor.

Anyway, whether or not the next draft to come out is substantially more satisfying to you, thanks for the feedback, which will make the game better even if I end up only taking part of it on board. :slight_smile:

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One potential remedy for the info dump is the option to bypass it. If I’m not misremembering as hostile or indifferent MC could almost entirely bypass the Horion Linos conversation. You could even still allow the stat boost by picking something like “I’m here to train not chat.”

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Much of it can be bypassed as is – either by (in some cases) choosing not to chat, or by picking the last option in the convo tree immediately to move on. But it’s a good idea to have more explicit bypass options, I’ll work those in.

At the same time, I suspect a lot of readers will dig pretty deep into the conversations on their first few reads through, out of fear of missing out-- so having a not-totally-overwhelming volume of dialogue is still a meaningful concern.

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Oh thank God, I was worried this series was abandoned. Definitely your biggest fan. I have done hundreds and hundreds of playthroughs over the past few years and got all achievements a long time ago. Excited to try this out. Keep up the great work!

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Just do another playthrough of Uprising. I’ve done literally hundreds.

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I actually sort of like it. When you look at how Cerlotta operates, how she debates the MC and the implications of her being a Theurge it’s always through a lense of utilitarian morality. The two exceptions from that rule are her reason for quitting Thaumatarchy and the reason for her visceral dislike of Hallasurq, which are both rooted in categorical morality (one could argue that the latter is part categorical, part libertarian, but Hegemony has slavery too). I think it hints at an internal conflict, possibly a nature vs nurture problem - obviously Theurges would be taught utilitarian morality (or a particular flavour of it), what if one was naturally inclined to believe absolute or natural rights and wrongs?

EDIT

Just realised I necroed a year old post. Sorry :sweat_smile:

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