If we can I’m betting that it’s going to be in game 5 since it would change a lot of things
My Compassionate MCs will mostly push for basic self-sacrifice Theurgy techniques to be widely taught amongst the educated members of his population (and the populations of his allies and/or subjects), while allowing his “tried and tested” elite loyalists to learn the more advanced aspects of Theurgy. (so that MC’s “monopoly on the legitimate use of force” is maintained)
MC will also try to restrict his Harrowing towards convicted murderers, rapists, and war criminals (for the most part).
Also, MC will try shutting down as many Wards as reasonably possible (though he does agree with Cerlota that the Erezza-Halassur border ward is super essential, and thus should still be maintained 24/7).
MC is confident that he can maintain good trade relations with the Seracca (thus justifying why the Seracca ward can be shut down), and is likewise confident that he can pacify the Unquiet Dead with a “Hotel Transylvania”-inspired arrangement (thus shutting down the Unquiet Dead’s ward as well).
However, if there’s still an Aether deficiency (to meet the needs of MC’s new world order), then MC will reluctantly allow for a “break in case of emergency” policy of Harrowing infants (like Halassur), while also conducting audits on every province (to make sure that everybody is only spending blood on essential needs (e.g. agriculture, border defense), rather than following Karagon’s footsteps of indulging in a “den of luxuries”).
Hopefully, this is where MC’s low anarchy approach (throughout the past games) pays off: with enough ex-Hegemony officials left alive (and grateful towards MC for being spared and then hired by MC’s faction), hopefully, these audits will be as accurate and efficient as intended.
And taking inspiration from Olynna, any family who loses their infant(s) to MC’s emergency policy will be entitled to one or more of the following (possible) forms of compensation…
1- (Partial) tax amnesty for the next 5-10 years,
2- OR shares of government bonds that pay interest twice a year (and then can later be sold for a profit in the next two to three decades),
3- OR just good old-fashioned supplies (for the family’s immediate housing needs)
(However, if the families choose to respond to MC’s government’s policy with violence (rather than making use of existing policies or negotiating), then all of the above benefits are forfeited, and then the families will spend the next two to three decades in jail.)
So in summary/TLDR: MC will avoid Harrowing innocents to the best of his nation’s ability, optimize/audit blood spending, and then compensate the grieving relatives of the innocent infants that his nation does have to (occasionally) Harrow.
Would love to hear everybody else’s proposed G5 post-Hegemony models of “Harrowing vs. no Harrowing”.
Basically, in a nutshell, Mass Effect = choose-your-own-adventure space opera + third-person shooter + political intrigue + (sort of?) post-apocalyptic thriller + dating simulator.
Considering that Kryptasts monitor the relatives of every Theurge’s respective aristo family (to make sure the Theurgic secret does not leak to people who shouldn’t know), young Ganelon’s access to an “instructions on Theurgy” scroll is indeed a thought-provoking topic.
Aside from the “related to Theurges” angles you already pointed out, perhaps Ganelon himself was already selected (or considered a candidate) to become a Theurge from a very young age?
(and then grew lax/fell behind on his studies (or got kicked out from the Theurgic classroom for some other unspecified reason), which is why we don’t see Gan unleash Theurgy on MC’s rebels during Game 1)
It would especially be quite the achievement for our pacifist MCs to accomplish! 
(though a part of me is still nervous/stressed out on how pacifist MC will survive and make their dreams come true in a world full of greedy, vicious, and/or vengeful opportunists, without ever (eventually) compromising their values 
)
Since Phaedrx was adopted, I’m very curious to find out their “birthplace origin story.” (prior to being adopted by Kleitos)
Is Phaedrx even really a native Karagond, or did Phaedrx simply lose their original name/cultural roots after being forced into the role that Kleitos wanted? (e.g. in the same fashion that the Ottomans enslaved/converted Christian boys into becoming Muslim Janissaries)
If the latter scenario is true, maybe there’s a certain “revenge is a dish best served cold” element to Phaedrx and Kleitos’ relationship? (the one dark trait that Phaedrx struggles to reconcile with their typical inclination towards compassion)
Since openly allying with Phaedrx will cause a large part of MC’s supporters to feel alienated from him, MC will…
1- Put Phaedrx through the G5 motions of being his “political prisoner (to guarantee Karagon’s good behavior)” (aka Gilded Cage house arrest in Grand Shayard),
2- Covertly work with Phaedrx to advance their “biotech agriculture” pet project,
3- And then later leverage his authority/credibility as Eclect (or Inner Voice Prophet) to declare Phaedrx “a repentant soul who has performed enough atonement to be justifiably freed” (thus finally opening the door for Phaedrx to officially re-enter politics as Karagon’s representative on MC’s monarchical koinon)
Aside from outright lying to the Seracca, the one other compromise I can think that allows for the MC to keep both his Seracca alliance and Plektoi army is the following suggestion:
Plektosis should be presented as an experimental last minute option for dying (or terminally ill) soldiers (and requires the soldier’s consent for implementation).
Or is Sereccan hatred towards Plektosis fierce enough to not accept any form of compromise/nuance?
Also, another question: does Plektosis automatically destroy the transformation subject’s mind by default, or is that an extra feature the Hegemony threw in to keep their Plektoi obedient?
If the broken mind is an optional feature, then MC will “sweeten the deal” by keeping as many of his Plektoi as free-willed/coherent as possible.
Do keep in mind though, that if everybody (theoretically) knows Theurgy, then the next question is: “Then how does our government maintain its monopoly on the legitimate use of force?”
As I’ve mentioned above, my current proposed model is to have everybody (in general) learn self-sacrifice Theurgy basics, and then save the more advanced lessons for MC’s government’s “tried and tested” elite loyalists.
Or would you instead prefer to follow @NotMyRealName’s “decentralized tribal confederation” model?
At the time, it felt very easy for MC to express excitement/commitment towards Herne’s dream of an improved/uplifted Sojourn, but after some further consideration, I’m beginning to ponder (and maybe dread?) what sort of favors is Sojourn going to start asking from MC’s faction during later games. 
Hopefully, nothing beyond reason!
@Havenstone Are there any plans to further expand upon Fedrel’s characterization in future games? (Particularly if MC handled Game 1 Winter well enough to avoid triggering his betrayal/death)
Hopefully, there’s a useful Game 2 (or beyond) bonus for us players who went out of our way to keep the band healthy/fed (and avoided killing Fedrel), right?
1 Like
Similar plans on my end. How essential the ward between us and Halasur remains shall be determined by whether Halasur remains a sovereign nation when I’m done with it.
2 Likes
Glad to hear it, buddy!
Though FYI, on the Uprising thread, I previously asked Havie about “MC’s later game ability to depose Halassur’s current leadership”, and he clarified the following:
“Absolutely not. Deposing the leadership of the empire you actually live in is hard enough. And Erjan has no family ties to the Emperor.”
Or did you have a different definition/plan on how to turn Halassur into a “no longer sovereign nation”?
On a separate note, I’m going to follow through on some advice I recently received on Discord by posting a poll (on everybody’s preferred post-Hegemony blood gathering policy).
EDIT: Please disregard this now closed poll, and then scroll down to resubmit your answers on the new version.
- Maintain the Hegemony’s existing Harrowing policy as is
- Stubborn 100% reliance on Self-Sacrifice Theurgy (No Harrowing at All)
- Mostly Use Self-Sacrifice Theurgy (But Harrow Infants if Emergency)
- Copy Halassur’s Policy of Harrowing Infants (As the Default Option)
- Use Vigil as a Battery (FYI a unique suggestion I found on Discord)
0
voters
Caroline is wondering if the Xaos storm technique could one day be used to cripple Halassur and allow most of the coastal wards to be dropped.
Actually wouldn’t be surprised if that’s an application Cerlota may want to make of them if she thinks it is feasible.
The same way a modern government does: elections. Legitimacy isn’t conferred by main battle tank ownership. I suspect the only way to detente with Hallasur will involve dropping all the wards. I’m hopeful that some solution to diverting storms will emerge from Cerlota’s research. The Unquiet dead may need to be fought. Perhaps we can afford a shortened Ward with them, but I doubt it.
I’m not certain that a magocratic republic won’t emerge after we are all said and done, but I hope to break the potential of centralized magical power without democratic consensus.
1 Like
I think you may be overestimating the legitimacy of the Democratic Process too much, as many post-colonial states (both democratic and authoritarian) showed when the armed forces start interfering in governance Democratic “legitimacy” pretty much goes out of the window. Not to mention a future Post-Hegemony State probably had much more similarities to post-colonial states in the Global South than your average well-developed Western Democracies (which also had the advantage of strong social cohesion, and a political consensus between the elite). Also many Western Nations continue to regulate (or banned) the use of military-grade weapons amongst civilians, I’d also argued the significance of theurgy is much bigger in an early modern society than a battle tank in a modern state (besides many Governments also banned the use of tanks (unless modified) for civillians anyway). So I do think a monopoly on violence is necessary.
1 Like
My MC is currently of the opinion that the best thing to do would be to seize control of the Hegemony and reform it as a Prime Minister while keeping Phaedra around as a puppet to continue regime legitimacy.
She wants to abolish the Alastors, encourage meritocratic appointments into the bureaucracy, and ensure men and women of merit in the Army advance based on their abilities and skills they have.
Overall she wants to achieve a total Hegemony, if she can subjugate Hallasur it’ll enable her to drop the ward there and ease up on the Harrowing as the demands of the continual ward expansion and usage in open and attritional warfare will decrease.
If she has children and when she’s gone- maybe then they’ll get rid of Phaedra and rule the Hegemony directly. But, for now she’s of the opinion that there is no suitable alternative to the Hegemony and it’s her job to un-fuck it.
1 Like
Does your MC basically admire Hera and think her heirs fucked things up?
1 Like
She doesn’t admire Hera, she thinks that Hera’s mistake was not leaving behind any viable institutions or serious regime building and forcing it all on her daughter.
Her daughter inherited a Hegemony that was splitting at the seams, in open rebellion, wracked by Xaos Storms, and fighting the beginnings of what is now a centuries spanning positional war with Hallasur.
She sees it as her job to reform the state from the fires of her Revolution, ensure that stability and order reigns, appoint competent men and women to head the organs of government and the armed forces, and then institute a moral and principled government.
I disagree. The reason a modern state can maintain exclusive control of modern war making isn’t arms control, its cost. I also don’t think it is information control that confers effectiveness to a military. It is the organizational capacity of the state and the legitimacy conferred by the loyalty of its soldiers. Unfortunately unlike MBTs the economic method of controlling the means of war making won’t work in this setting. In the XoRverse a single theurge can accumulate state level power through knowledge, practice, and aether (a talisman or harvested). The logic of power therefore undermines state organization as we know it and makes its primary driving ambition monopolizing aether. The only means we have been shown thus far to permanently subvert that logic is by destroying the Hegemony’s information control. I’ve proposed what I think is the only way to deal with the long term consequences of that destruction, while hopefully building a society that can resist external threats. I’ll freely admit that the likelihood is some force or forces figure out how to accumulate sufficient theurgic power to demolish that society. I just don’t see another way that isn’t the Hegemony 2.0.
That’s where my MC is, she can’t think of anything other than a Hegemony 2.0 as a viable method.
She wants to adapt and change things that didn’t work- but overall she can’t think of a system of government that will work and be a viable replacement.
She won’t close the door to a democratic institutions, maybe at the Provincial level… but overall she’s just not sure about it. She’ll need to see a wide-scale democracy and see it work effectively for her to buy into it. She knows what doesn’t work with the Hegemony and can think of ways to fix it that aren’t outlandish.
For Democracy she doesn’t really have a background in a multi-million person Democracy and isn’t sure if it’ll work.
Yes, I can see how the main inspiration for the character is Cao Cao.
1 Like
“Let us fill our cups and drink to song- for life’s such joys do not last long, but as are ephemeral, as morning dew, which soon will to the past belong. Make merry!- they say, - but how could I dispel the sorrow in my heart? How indeed, to ease my mind, but by the cup of Du-Kang’s art (legendary wine-maker in China)?”
“The scholar’s robe is a deep, deep blue, but my yearning’s deeper yet, for you, my dear friends, and passions true, today- my heart beset. Gently bleats the little deer, and turns to graze again. Worthy guests are gathered here as the lutes begin their strain. Brightly shines the moon up high, but forever beyond my hold. While from within my sadness grows and cannot be controlled. From far and wide you’ve came, my friends, to honor me tonight; and at this feast we reminisce to old times times to our hearts’ delight.”
The moon shines bright, the stars grow dim, as the magpie southwards flies. Around a tree he circles thrice, but no resting place he spies. There’s no such thing as a peak too high; there is no too deep a sea. The Duke of Zhou forgot himself and the empire’s love gained he."- Cao Cao
6 Likes
Fundamentally, I think democracy is a compromise that becomes possible/necessary when power is sufficiently diffused. There are many social forces that hope to consolidate power that democratic institutions must be built to resist. I don’t think my MC can think about democracy like I do either, but he can see that the only way to break the wheel is to break the information control over theurgy. The need for collective defense will force the subsequent compromise power structure (if xaos or Hallasur or the dead don’t eat us all first).
7 Likes
The way my pragmatic and rational character might do some experimentation with Democracy is by doing it in localized cases.
Her main hang-up is doing this new system while trying to rebuild effective civil governance and reestablishing proper law and order.
She’s terrified she’ll put her name on this experiment only for it to crash and burn and thus crush her with it.
This is where you lost me, any local militias or strongmen doesn’t need to maintain a war-footing capability equal to that of a modern state, just enough to maintain power in their peripheral regions. This is proven in the real world where in China local peasants continue to have access to firearms and cannons can continue clashing against each other for any social or economic reasons due to disinterest or inability of the state to enforce it’s laws, other examples include the tribal wars in Papua New Guinea after the proliferation of firearms or Myanmar and it’s menagerie of ethnic militias, the state can have as much economic and military superiority as it want but it can’t control a million bush wars in its territories. This superiority is further narrowed in pre-modern societies where states like Japan once unified started confiscating firearms and swords from peasants. So arms control is important in maintaining a monopoly on violence
What your ideal situation (inner voice with spreading the knowledge of theurgy), I can only think of the militarization of regional communities under local theurges (doubly acting as religious prophets, I imagine) that will fanatically defend their own regional interests both from the state and each other, a particularly resourceful theurge (like MC) can maybe even remain a thorn on the state’s side for years even, an uneasy equilibrium may be reached but to me that sounds like a state that will have a lot of underlying tension and only need a small spark to blow it all up. Better to just concentrate theurgic knowledge among a cadre loyal to the state.
This is all well and good but I think this is only true to well developed democracies or party-states (where the armed forces are the armed wing of the party). A post-Hegemony state won’t be able to maintain all the benefits of the Hegemony’s Army while building a new army from scratch will be a monumental effort , rather it feels to me that it gonna be more similar to post-colonial states and we all know how stable many of these countries are (See the Internal Conflicts in Myannmar, etc…)
2 Likes
One additional thing I was thinking about is:
the possible introduction of XoR version of the organ gun; this type of weapon seems to be in use in the east, and the ambassador seemed to imply a shipment could/would be rerouted to our forces … if we paid the right price.
If I understood the context, this weapon system is being used on both sides of the border, so it should be somehow obtainable without needing to pay the price being asked. Control of the air seems vital, one way or another, and this weapon system seems vital, so we do not need to rely on theurgy for this strategic necessity.
1 Like
What about the criminal option?
Haven’t been in the forum for weeks & just saw this, holy shit.
LESSSSSSSS GOOOOOOOOOOO
3 Likes