Choice of Rebels Part 1 WIP thread

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WinterHawk, the anarchy stat is meant to represent the extent to which the average person feels that someone’s in control – where at this stage of the game, “someone” means the Hegemony – and accepts their authority. Anarchy can go up when you create a sense of things spinning out of control, and also (though this happens less at this stage) when you undercut the authority of the Thaumatarchy by getting people to seriously ask, “why do we have to follow these guys?” (If you demystify the Karagonds’ authority and leave it there, you’ll get a nice high anarchy. If you succeed in giving people some alternative to follow, which will not always be easy to pull off, it will boost anarchy less and followers more).

One of the key things anarchy will add up to in this game is, as your father suggests, how many Alastors and Phalangites the Archon will feel free to send after you directly, and how many she will have to divert to putting out fires elsewhere in the Rim. Getting Simon won’t compensate much in combat terms for the additional wave of troops you’ll be facing.

Anarchy won’t be the only thing affecting the number of troops you’ll face at the end – you may have noticed in the code that I’ve also half-introduced a hidden stat on “notoriety,” which varies depending on how much the authorities care about something you’ve done. For example, the Owlscap raid will not move the anarchy meter too much (theft on long distance overland trade routes is perceived as pretty normal by your average subject) but will bump notoriety (“the Thaumatarch really cares about trade”). High notoriety will also get extra troops sent after you.

In later games, anarchy will continue to affect how many troops the Hegemony can send after you; but also, increasingly, how much you’re able to create any stability in the territory you’ve cleared. A high anarchy strategy will create, in a word, Afghanistan. You can kick out the occupier, but good luck building on what’s left. Or the French Terror: the revolution that eats its own leaders, and opens the way for a charismatic autocrat to create a new order.

It’s one of the stats I’ll definitely be sense-checking at the balancing stage of Game 1, to make sure there’s consistency in my idea of why a certain action on your part has created a given rise in anarchy.

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1562

@Havenstone then my situation doesn’t follow your standards. I’m a charismatic that don’t want an anarchy and certain known to her own needs, need a precarious balance. She wants to find her own empire, she knows she has to convince the scums slaves the brainless brute force that could make empire fall apart. But also she hates and fear them, known they would create a chaos and torn apart shared if they lead something. She wants to attract nobles, and gilds. And for that she couldn’t create chaos. But how the hell could lead a rebellion enough ppowerto make nobles could then join me is viable??? I want a not anarchical new order without minimal bloodshed, like Palpatine conquer republic only get rid Jedis. And then of course create a slave terror control of human animals. Even create a special breed of Alastors to use in harrowings. OH, IRONY >:-)

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@Havenstone

Thank you that gives me a much better understanding of the stat, for as you mentioned the balancing stage as well as making sure the stat seems consistent with a certain idea.

If I my understanding is correct then notoriety is the measure of how much the Thuamatarch wants your head, and anarchy is the measure of the populations confidence that some one is in control of the situation. Similar to how the arms stat tracks the number of rusty maces we have, but morale tracks how ready your followers are to follow you into battle with them.

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@Havenstone, seems that keeping anarchy low is even more important then I had originally thought. when it comes to anarchy will the more intellectually inclined characters get more/better means to reduce anarchy as the rebellion expands? Since as the rebellion expands you likely won’t have to deal with/impress each of your followers personally and things like written manifesto’s and the ability to pick and assign competent rebels to the right tasks becomes more ever more important.

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@WinterHawk, @hahaha01357,
NO, it’s hard to do but possible. If you have CHA 0, you should select do nothing when the crowd is going to lynch the the alastors, then order to plunder only the merchants or only the nobles. This gives you not more then 14 Anarchy even if you’re noble. Then you can still beg helots for food and rob their barns, as rhis doesn’t increase your anarchy. You’ll still have to feed 160+ people, you can either send them all away or let them starve (then Radmar also dies), but then you’ll stay below the 16 Anarchy therhold and S. de Firiac joins to you.
Alternatively, don’t stop the harrowing at all, then Elery dies and you’ll be in jail and escape. You’ll have no anarchy but only 41 men for any banditry missions. Either way, if you follow one of these two paths and don’t do much real banditry you’ll end up with S. No matter what CHA you have.

@Havenstone
3.f. But what if an arrogant noble starts to pursuade her/him? And how will s/he deal with being rejected? Will s/he still be a loyal follower? And in general, who’s seme and who’s uke in the MC/Breden relationship?

bce. Thinking a bit more about Sybla, I understand that she won’t join until now, and the choice with the appeal is resultless, but will you add an offer to hire her as an option, because I think some MCs who have lots of money would get an idea to try to get her on board that way. Also, if she were given such an offer, would she decline outright or take the money in advance and then desert from the rebels?

4.a. How old is Yebben and since he’s blind since birth, why is Mikal de Rose waiting so long? Alless and Pin are certainly younger, but they can get harrowed.

  1. District is also used in French so I think it’s fine, and the world index implies they existed before the hegemonial conquest, but I think realm would be better suited then province because it can signify both an independent state and a part of a larger entity. A province by contrast is only used to designate a subdivision of a country. Using this term would imply that the Shayardenes see the Hegemony as a unity and the four archonties as unseparably, and I think especially the more nationalist characters wouldn’t call Shayard a province. The derivative term provincial also has some negative connotations with backwardness

6.a. then how comes there are the helot barns? Why don’t the aristos keep all the grain in one place and issue helots dayly or weekly rations? Giving them a huge amount of grain means they have less control of food distribution, and I think that’s a very important mechanism of control.
b.Maybe @Iello can help you here again? I hope s/he’s reading this.
c.what would happen to a child from a mixed-class union, particulary one between an aristo and a helot?

No problem, I’ll let you know if I see more.
If you’re reading the the 3 Word Game (and I highly encourage everyone to participate! It’s so funny! :smiley: ) you can figure out the answer :)>-

Didn’t know of the notority stat. Are there any other important hidden stats?

BTW, are you a first- or second-generation german-american immigrant? :-?

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@WulfyK

Opps. Yes, you are correct. I always forget about the options to let people starve or not rebelling at the Harrowing. They just feel like such a non-option for me I tend to forget about them.

There is also the morale stat which has been mentioned previously, as well as relationship tracking stats. Such as the stats that track how much Breden trust you and how much you trust Breden. No stat (beside notoriety, which doesn’t have any checks) that you can’t find out from reading through the scenes instead of finding in the stats screen.

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3.f. But what if an arrogant noble starts to persuade her/him? Of what? The MC’s superiority? Breden’s had quite enough of that already, thank you.

And how will s/he deal with being rejected? That’s a great question. :smiley:

As the relationship wasn’t designed around yaoi tropes, no one’s seme or uke.

bce. Ok, I’ll offer the hire – it’ll increase the number of choices there above two. She’ll decline outright, not rob you. She’s a pro.

4.a.Yebben and Elery are 17. The Theurges don’t usually Harrow kids before they’ve reached their full growth; it’s supposedly inefficient blood-wise, and inconsistent with the Canon’s strong line against child sacrifice. But they’ll do it as a punishment for lawbreaking (e.g. Pin)–that’s not seen as “sacrifice”, and thus consistent with Canon.

5.I’ll have a look at the cases where a nationalist character calls Shayard a province. You’re right that that may not be appropriate.

6.a. The aristos still control food distribution-- a barn on their land which they can empty or lock at any time. It’s just under normal circumstances they don’t need to bother their steward with weekly grain handouts, and it gives helot elders something meaningful to manage.
c A child known to be born from an aristo-helot union would be a helot. In some places, the Ecclesiasts would insist on sterilization of the child, to keep unnatural noble blood from permeating further into the helot population (which would of course make the child’s late teenage harrowing likely). In other places which are less hysterical about blood purity, the kid would just be another helot.

As in most CoGs, there are a bazillion variables that don’t show up on the stats screen. WinterHawk has summed up the major ones that readers can follow in the narrative and will affect plot. As I integrate notoriety, I’ll make the signals for that clearer too.

And I’m a third gen Swedish-American and first gen Americo-British immigrant.

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1568

Mara, you’ll go for low anarchy, which means the Hegemony will have more troops to throw at you. That’s not the end of the world. You’ll just have to stick with tactics that aren’t threatened by that troop disparity. In the long game, your low anarchy approach will have advantages in getting something like the outcome you want.

As we discussed last year, this isn’t a game about palace coups of the Palpatine variety; that would all be set in the Hegemonic capital, Aekos. But many elements of what you want are possible. Stick with me and keep making suggestions. :slight_smile:

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I got two things to say to you, @Havenstone…

  1. You’re making a great game here! :-bd
  2. How can you have time to work on it seeing how much you write here? :open_mouth: (I jest, I’m just impressed how you keep up with it all on here, answering questions and having discussions! Impressive work here too! :D)
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@Havenstone

Is there a way to use theurgy to enchant a weapon or to otherwise increase its quality? Like the “spell-forged” Valyrian steel from ASoIaF for example?

I remember the MC can use it to enhance the sharpness of their rebels’ swords, but I can’t recall if that was only temporary or if we have a bunch of monomolecular blades sitting around our camp somewhere now.

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@JTAL Thanks! :slight_smile: And I was wondering if someone would ask that.

I find it really hard to code on a phone or tablet, but don’t have the same problem with forum posting. So in the in-between times – commute, lunch break, etc. – I write my responses to WulfyK. Oh, and other people too. :slight_smile:

But I get my coding done evenings and weekends. The game advances, slowly but surely.

Sneaks: your sharpness enhancing Change was temporary. You know that Karagond steel is much better than anything the provinces make, but not sure whether that’s mainly attributable to Theurgy or metallurgy; you’ve certainly never heard of swords that permanently do what yours did when you accentuated their purpose of cutting. [Edit: as of Ch 4 getting written, this is no longer true]

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:(( :(( :(( There is No way Mara win in this game. Alone with 8 maces, all of them rusty. 41 stupid helots, many of them children. Tons of food, A harsh, sarcastic father and a nun noble alone with a sword and stupid idealist dreams …Also 0 combat skills, against the imperial army. Go 41 !!! Die for me!!!
Now, maybe that is the reason I love your game, well your write is great too. But the fact known all my rp has been doomed from the beginning has a romantic attraction. The only way i could win without my beloved poison and or politic quiete takeover, would be convincing a good chunck of ithe imperial army that my crusade is holy or something. The problem is i am a not religious leader . :-? I 'm know for certain im doomed , but i would keep trying find a way. Your game is an amazing complexity . So well done @Havenstone .

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@Havenstone

So no magic flaming swords?

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@Sneaks: alas.

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An excellent story and, dare I say, simulation so far.
A most engaging flow of events,
and most choices make you grit your teeth in anticipating the outcome

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great game but @Havenstone the higher the anarchy the less troops the hegemony will have to stop you and the less anarchy the more troops

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Will there be potential for gigantic battles, siege warfare, massive genocide? As the rebellion grew, can you destroy the entire kingdom as well adjacent ones?

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@idnlun, great question. I think CHA will be the best stat for moderating anarchy (because “charisma” is really another word for “why I should follow this guy” – that authority half of anarchy I mention above) but INT will be second best. COM is better suited to creating anarchy than moderating it.

Dyne: thanks! @Azraeldrake9, absolutely–and that’s why it won’t be easy to win with low anarchy. @Pepper, all of that’s on the menu. :slight_smile:

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@WinterHawk, I usually don’t do this either, but again I almost never play with CHA 0.

@poison_mara maybe it’s best for the people in Shayard if she doesn’t win… I wonder if the MC might survive a completely failed rebellion and go into hiding.

@Havenstone
5.f. But did you design the realtionship using the four greek words for love? I guess these words exists in Karagon Koine as well, so how would Breden call his/her feelings towards the MC and what does s/he expect from the MC?

6.c. Are marriages between aristos and the “middle class” (seriously, they need a proper koine name possible? and if landless aristos are “downgraded” after a while, wouldn’t the MC be an attractive party for someone from an even less fortunate family? and could you desribe how inheritance works?

Will it be possible to increase or reduce Anarchy significantly after S. or K. has joined the MC or will the value at the end of ch.2 remain more or less the same for the rest of the game?

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Anyone else think it’s super fun to play a really pompous entitled aristo whose primary motivation for rebellion is helping the helots? Put that conundrum to Breden and you can practically see the steam coming out of her ears.

MC: I’M COMPLICATED ALRIGHT