It should always be both. Let me know if you find a case where it’s been applied to an individual.
And while we’re at it, @Iello wrote: “I was going to make a comment about the surnames sounding a bit modern with the -tou endings (as opposed to the gendered surnames common in the Byzantine period – e.g., Skleros/Skleraina, Palaiologos/Palaiologina, Laskaris/Laskarina, etc.)”
I’d like to avoid gendered surnames. Is the -tou ending so modern that it shatters suspension of disbelief, or do you think I can get away with it?
Your world evolved differently due to magic most of the inherent advantages in strength men may have had largely ceased to be meaningless.
If I remember correctly the great conqueror in this world who formed the empire we live in was a woman, so you could always say she detested her gendered surname and promptly put an end to the practice. To most of us who dropped ancient Greek in school as soon as we got the chance to (in my case after one year) or the large majority who never even had to take it in the first place modern Greek sounds exotic enough.
I want to support @Iello concerning the gendered names.
First of all, while Shayard is a counterpart culture to England and France where the surnames are gender-neutral, your world also includes Wiendrj that is apparently inspired by Poland and Nyryal that seems to be based on Scandinavia. In these countries, traditional surnames are gendered: Kowalski/Kowalska (plural Kowalscy) and Ericsson/Ericsdotter, so it would be impossible for you to avoid the issue of gendered surnames completely without making all the names sound too anglicised.
The language structure of the Karagond Koine seems to support gendered singular and gender-neutral plural as you explained in the kurios/kuria/kurioi example above. The Karagond given names featured in game are already gendered (for example the proposed names are Iasoun, Taras and Kadmos for a male MC and Thekla, Alkyone and Karme for a female) and in real life, even Greek given name based on the same root have gendered endings (Alexandros/Alexandra, Hippolytos/Hippolyta, Theodoros/Theodora). Therefore it would sound more natural if the surnames follow the same pattern.
While Karagond offers equal opportunity to female and male nobles and is equally opressive to female and male helots, it doesn’t seem to be literaly gender-blind. If you’re concerned that gendered surnames sound sexist, just make the plural form gender-neutral. What about using the -tou form as this gender-neutral plural, -os/-is for male singular and -ina as female singular?
For example, a female scion of the House Spartiatou would be called “Kuria Helena Spartiatina” and her brother would be known as “Kurios Hector Spartiatis”, and a group of family members would be adressed as “Kurioi Spartiatou”, no matter if the group is all-male, all-female or coed. A helot belonging to this family would be known as Jon/Jane t’Spartiatou. Do you like this idea, @Havenstone? And @Iello, do you think this sounds more appropriate? I hope this will please both of you.
@Sneaks, @Havenstone, I think theurgy might be used if I don’t mange to take the Architelon by surpirse and they put up some resistance.
The Architelon is still a noble, and can be swayed to join the Rebellion against the empire I am sure.
Also, about the gendered names, it would definitely feel more natural if you did that. The biggest problem really is all the scene rewrites you would have to do, and the character renaming you would have to do. Honestly, it is a lot of work, but would add authenticity to it I think. You could get by the way it is and be perfectly fine in my opinion, and unless the readers also read this part of the forum, they won’t miss it either, because it will feel exotic enough for them. However if you did want to switch over to the Patranomic Naming system (Took Russian in highschool and that was what they called their naming system which from what I can tell, is very very similar to what is being described now. Not quite the same but close) you would need to do it now because switching at the start of game 2 would just throw everyone off I think.
@WulfyK
I think it is impossible to get ambushed by the Phalangites if you are a theurge, if that is what you are referring to. That would be a place using theurgy would be useful.
@Havenstone
In one scene I only have one choice which feels weird. I don’t know if its a bug or if you have not added the other choices. Here is the choice: I slither to the brink and look downward.
This choice can repeat: Any guesses as to who they are? The option stays there after selecting it and if you select it again it will repeat the same text. No other errors occur.
Thanks, @WinterHawk–I’d already caught and fixed those in the alternative version where I’m updating Ch 3 as we speak, but I haven’t got round to fixing the demo.
While gendered surnames would make it more like our world’s historic Greece, it would add greater complexity to Karagon in a place I don’t want it. Complexity draws attention to itself; where I ask readers to get their heads around a detailed history, naming convention, philosophy, or other bit of worldbuilding, I’d like it to reinforce the themes of the game. And this doesn’t; Karagond culture shouldn’t be more gendered than Shayardene.
What I’m wondering is whether -atou has an overly modern ring to it, setting aside issues of gender. Assuming all nobles have an identical naming convention regardless of sex, would -atos or -os or something else be any different?
Personally I think all the namings, surname, first name, and titles is fine. I like them the way they are and have gotten used to and come to love them over the many playgroughs I’ve done.
@Havenstone, I don’t see how gendered surnames would drive more attention then the gendered titles kurios/kuria already do. And the given names are already gendered in both cultures. I think the attention would be drawn not to the cultural or genderal but to the linguistic differences between Shayarin and Koine:
Shayardene surnames aren’t gendered because they’re terms signifing occupations (that are gender neutral) in case of helot surnames or (apparently) derived from the place of origin for the nobles. I’m not sure what Karagond surnames mean, are these names supposed to be nouns or adjectives, or do they signify descent from a famous ancestor (for example Keria or Leila) or origin form a location with this name? It might help if you explained this.
If Karagond surnames are supposed to be nouns, they should definitely follow the same grammatical rules as the usual nouns and be declined according to the same pattern (-os/-a/-oi) that you’ve explained. Shayarin nouns are gender-neutral because Shayarin (=English) uses http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declension less prominently then Koine (=Greek).
Anyway, it seems @Iello is a greater expert on greek names then me and I think s/he is the best person to advice you on this topic and help you to decide which ending, (-tou, -atos or something else), would be most appropriate.
@WinterHawk, I’ve encountered the phalangites too but only when my MC was an uneducated helot. Is there any possibility for the raid to go wrong with an intelligent MC who can use theurgy?
@WulfyK, I am pretty sure you can not be ambushed by them if you have 2 intellect. It seems like having 0 means you always fail and get ambushed; having one requires you to navigate the choices correctly; having 2 ensures that you don’t get ambushed, but can still fail to raid the tax collector.
@WinterHawk has it right; an INT 2 character will not need Theurgy, because s/he’ll have been sufficiently clever in getting the key info for the raid to succeed. As the raid description text suggests, “finding out the timing of the winter tax procession in advance will require clever, subtle inquiry,” i.e. INT.
If you have INT 1, things can go wrong… it depends partly on your own choice navigation, but partly on your rep established by prior choices, i.e. whether merchants and aristos all hate you. If so, the merchant and Ismene will sell you out. If not, they’ll be willing to help you.
And yes, with 0 INT the best possible outcome is failure to get the info in time to set up an ambush, and the worst outcome is getting jumped by Phalangites.
This is pretty much the only case so far where it’s a real disadvantage to have INT 0. Before the tax raid, INT was the natural dump stat, as there were raids where COM 1 and CHA 1 were useful, but nothing that differentiated INT 1 from INT 0.
@Havenstone, While we are on the subject one thing I noticed, was that INT and CHA have one big check at 1 (Tax Raid for INT; Controlling the mob after beating Chirex for CHA) but COM has lots of little checks where 1 comes in handy. I don’t think it’s imbalanced just something I noticed.
I assume you still want most balance stuff to wait till after the next chapter since we can’t see a lot of the consequences and rewards for our decisions beyond just living through the winter.
Yes, I’m very aware that the game is currently unbalanced in several respects, and one of the main questions I’ll be asking my closed beta testers for the complete game is about whether it feels properly balanced – for different stat specializations, and for helots and aristos. But I think COM in particular will come into its own later: say, when you get the option to stand and fight the Thaumatarchy’s forces in the woods rather than just evading them.
Yes I was just double checking. Although the comment I had in didn’t have to do with the three core “gameplay” stats, I was just thinking about the anarchy checks (Are there any besides Simon/Suzanne vs Kalt/Kala) and gains.
I feel like COM CHA and INT are relatively balanced for the kind of rebellion you want to lead. If you pick COM you can already start putting the hurt on the empire, CHA helps you not starve will leading a peaceful rebellion, and INT is either but more fun.
The closed beta testing phase won’t start soon but I hope we’ll be able to help you to balance the game out.
Beside the MC’s own stats, the abilities of the fellow rebels should be taken into account. Having Breden with you could make up for low CHA and Zvad, S. de Firiac and Elery can balance out a low. COM. My impression is that having an INT of 2 is the best choice as it’s the only way to learn theurgy. Having CHA 2 and INT 1 allows to have lowest anarchy though.
I further have some more questions and suggestions, on various aspects of the game, just tell me if you want to hear them.
I can do it, but do you currently have enough free time to react on them? I don’t want to burden you too much if’ your busy with your baby and most things might require you to make some changes and add new choice options.
And you still haven’t commented on these two passages from my last post on the previous page:
"Does "no double standards about male and female unchastity/nudity" mean that the men also never go shirtless in Karagond, even if toiling in the summer heat? I definitely want to know more on their clothing."
"Alastors usually carry clubs, but Gellard has a sword. Is this 'cause he's the captain or is he a master swordsman? Anyway, I hope the MC will meet him agian and defeat him. In Shayard City perhaps, as a mid-chapter"
