What RRR? No! Teach kids that gay people can be cool and nice, help break bigotry in the youth of our brave new world
@VoodooDolly Regarding nice guys:
I’m reminded of John Godfrey Saxe’s “The Blind Men and the Elephant.” Are you familiar with it? No man or woman is all knowing. No man or woman has a monopoly on the truth, and we are all limited by our own senses. There is value in taking the time to understand the perspectives of others even when their conclusions differ from our own, because it often gives us the ability to see truth from a different angle, and thus increase the depth of our own understanding of what is really going on.
Most men are well aware when other men are players and when they aren’t. A not insignificant chunk of the female population however seems wilfully oblivious, rationalizing and making excuses for questionable behavior in the men they desire until after they’ve been badly burned. Then they all too often complain bitterly about -all- men. Do they learn from their mistakes? Some do, but just about every man I’ve discussed this with knows quite a few women who don’t. These women don’t see as romantically interesting the non-players all around them who they LJBF (Let’s just be friends). They instead move on to dating yet another player who to them seems much more intriguing and compelling. Their male friends, and quite often their female friends as well, shake their heads and sigh when they realize their friend is once again in love with yet another player. The men who are interested in these gals feel frustrated that they -seem- to prefer men who treat them like dirt.
Do these women really want to be treated like dirt? Most of them don’t. Yet being treated like dirt isn’t enough for them to walk away, and that’s why some self-admitted nice guys feel upset. When the woman a nice guy is quietly in love with hangs all over and makes excuses for a man who treats her like dirt, the nice guy’s heart breaks. He also very understandably begins to wonder if maybe he’d have better luck if he became more like the man who is treating her poorly.
Is this all women? No. Nevertheless most of the men I’ve known have at one time or another been interested in a gal who fell into this category. I’ve also heard numerous women openly admit that they have an attraction to bad boys despite knowing they’re bad for them.
Does a woman have a responsibility to put out for a man just because he’s nice to her? Most certainly not. Nevertheless if a woman gets badly burned by 5 players in a row, she really should consider the possibility that there may be a problem with her selection process. She should consider that just maybe that man she finds so compelling simply has had lots of practice at setting the hook before reeling a woman in, and that’s why he comes across as being so confident.
@P_Tigras, I assume I must be misreading or being stupid because I still heard women should sleep with the nice guy because he’s nice to her in that explaination although I’m sure you don’t mean that.
Attraction is an abstract concept however and there are way more factors involved then the way a guy/girl treats you. So the whole friend zone/bad guy complex is a difficult thing to debate without a subject case.
I always thought friend zoning to be a weird idea anyway, If you’re romanticly interested in someone you tell them, if they say no you can get over it and go back to being friends or drift apart if that isn’t an option. Problem solved?
I think men and women have a lot of misconceptions about each other. There are things that happened to me in my youth involving females who I was romantically involved with that I still don’t understand to this day. Later in life I tried to ask them about why they did what they did, and either they didn’t respond to my questions, or they gave me answers that I couldn’t comprehend. Maybe they just didn’t want to hurt my feelings, but if I’d cared about that I wouldn’t have asked for the truth.
I consider myself an intelligent guy, but the best I’ve been able to determine is that logic cannot be applied when it comes to romance. If you think you have the opposite sex figured out, then you’re probably wrong.
You’ve obviously never read a women’s magazine they have men all figured out XD in seriousness though completly agree with you on that. I’ve got male friends I’ve know my whole life and I still don’t understand their attitude towards relationships.
@ZigZagZoom Thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt. It was never my intent to imply that women should sleep with the nice guy when she isn’t romantically interested in him. There are men out there who are neither “nice guys” nor players.
It’s the nice guy who is concluding that he needs to become more like a player if he wants women to find him more romantically appealing.
While I don’t consider attraction particularly abstract, I do grant that there are way more factors involved than how a person is treated, and the importance of these factors vary from person to person. This is why I pointed out that “nice guys” who conclude that women want to be treated like dirt are generally mistaken. (I’m not going to say always because there are some gals with rather kinky fetishes out there…)
Regarding simply telling someone if you’re romantically interested, I agree with you. Nevertheless I’d like to ask you this. Have you ever asked a man out? If so, how did you feel just before, and while you were doing it? And if you’ve never done it, why not?
Half of my relationships have been the result of me making the first move. As for how I felt, nervous but kind of exhilarated and generally relieved that I’d know one way or another shortly. Why?
@ZigZagZoom It’s just that nice guys tend to be rather shy, and tend to admire a gal from afar at first. This is a mistake however because the longer they wait, the brighter the torch they’re carrying becomes and the more terrifying the thought of being rejected seems. So when they finally do take their heart in their hands and lay it before the woman they’ve been worshipping quietly from afar, they prey she won’t stomp on it, but embrace it instead. Nevertheless they’re so terrified deep down that they’re anything but smooth, and their lack of confidence is often painfully obvious. All too often the girl isn’t impressed, and if she rejects him that is going to make it even harder the next time. And God forbid she’s one of the cruel ones, that sort of experience is particularly traumatizing. He’s going to look at future revelations of his feelings as the equivalent to sticking his head in a guillotine, handing the girl the rope, and praying she doesn’t pull it and send his head, and heart, tumbling into the gutter.
BTW, you have my respect. Not all women are willing to put themselves out like that. Once upon a time it was nearly unheard of.
I’m one of those ‘nice’ guys. I used to be really shy and tended to like girls who preferred the ‘bad’ boys however I was rarely in the friend zone I was always in the completely not interested zone.
It was quite disheartening, especially when the girls that did like me I didn’t actually like that way.
I was actually on the verge of deciding on being a bad guy when I met Claire ten years ago and now she is my wife so at least it was a happy ending!
@eposic I agree that men and women have lots of misconceptions about each other. And while I do believe that it’s possible to understand a single woman if you spend enough time with her over an extended period of time and make a serious effort to understand her over that same extended period, I don’t believe it’s possible to apply that hard won knowledge to women in general except in some very basic ways.
@Nocturnal_Stillness That’s a great story! I’m glad things worked out for you. 
I was a player, sleeping around and drinking way too much. I lucked out when I found my wife at one of the parties. She took me home while I was drunk. We became very close friends, but she told me not to sleep with her until we got married. So now she is pregnant and Im a future daddy. And they all lived happily ever after.
Congrats on your wife becoming pregnant. Now watch everything else slow to a crawl lol my son is 5 months old and there is no words to describe how great being a dad is
Thanks.
Congratulations on finding such an excellent life partner. She sounds like an amazing woman.
She is. I dont know why she went for me but she did. Then we went to college together. I went to ROTC and she learned Art. Then we got married after we graduated. The end.
@P_Tigras Ah, thanks for being condescending? Be objective, got it, the lesson can go back to you too.
Why do much generalisation? I was raped by a family member, a male cousin, for three years, I was a seven/eight year old child when it started; if we follow your point of view, I should hate all men because of what they did to me, or all women because they did not protect me. I did not do it, nor I do now.
You apparently condense male population in two sides: Players, and nice guys. That is silly, completely illogical. Human beings have more facets than that.
And we go back to your Nice Guy Syndrome. In your whole post the highlights are basically: Women should, women must, but not women have the ultimate choice after all.
What’s so wrong about being a male human being, whose company is enjoyed by a female human being, and she enjoys his company so much that she wants to have him as a friend? Was it is so undesirable about being a friend? It is joyful thing; women do not owe sex to anyone. In fact, let me rephrase that: Nobody owes sex to anybody. A man does not owe sex to a good, girl next door friend because she thinks that he has to get rid of that slut he is dating. To put a male example. Friendship is not inserting a coin until sex falls out, and expecting that is being a false, hypocritical, piece of insensitive trash. If you are friends with a woman or a man just because you expect that someday all those hours spent listening to her/his whining pays off with good, ol’ sex; well, you are a horrible being.
It’s all stereotypes with you, really. I’m disappointed.
@RevanRulesRussia Your wife sounds like a lovely lady, congratulations.
Thank you Dolly.
I’m so sorry about what happened to you, Dolly. My wife’s sister went through what you did and one day she decided to take her life. It is a very sad thing you went through and I hope you have recovered fully.
scratch this. i’m going to rewrite it.