[WIP] Blood on My Hands [Updated 080719]

[Thfphen110]

Good start so far, getting right into the action instead of having a pre-combat prologue definitely works here. Be interested to see how you pull off the plot and the importance of command, tactics and relationships. Some comments on what’s in the current demo:

Scene comments

Not sure about the starting bit. Asking for a sitrep – of one’s own platoon, no less – in the middle of a firefight seems a bit odd. It’s not that it happens, I’m more uncertain about the way it comes across. It seems odd to have to ask the platoon sergeant for a determinant of the platoon’s morale. Water and ammo makes sense, though I suppose it could have been specific.

Basically I feel that the first bit before the pagebreak, while good at setting out the scene, is clunky in the manner which the situation of the platoon is described. Overly mechanical. They’re being shot at, while the sergeant somewhat-breezily lists off stuff. It also makes it seem that the MC is a bit impotent in that they need their sergeant to point everything out for them (jokes about officers aside) while all the sergeant needs to do is look around. In-universe, how does the sergeant know about ammo and water levels, for instance?

As an idea, perhaps have the PS duck into cover alongside the MC having been sent around to find this stuff out from around the platoon before asking for orders (I believe it’s called a LACE report, but that might be a modern thing). The MC would be more active than currently, where they just seem to be sitting there with the sergeant being the active one.

The bit after the first pagebreak with the first choice is better, and to be frank with it I’m not entirely sure whether the whole exchange with the sergeant is entirely necessary. Tactics seem reasonable, though my first instinct was to wonder if I could rifle grenade the position or suppress and flank it. I do like the touch of it being possible to use the RPG as an anti-emplacement weapon, that doesn’t seem to happen too often in fiction that I’ve read.

I like the variety of options in storming the house, though I question the reasoning behind abandoning it despite the casualties inflicted upon taking it. The objective was to advance and secure a new position, right? The game then appears to contradict itself as the platoon then secures the house despite the MC saying that they should return to the base.

In general, the point of the action doesn’t seem clear, and the stuff after taking the house just adds to the confusion. That might be a point worth making concerning the brutality and fog of war, but the platoon’s objective should be more clear cut - take this building, take ground etc.

One nitpick, but surely using the RPG inside the house against the truck would kill everyone with the backblast, unless they’re on the roof?

Some general comments:

General Comments

On the use of onomatopoeia in the text, personally I’m not in favour of it. I admit I have a personal dislike of it in general, but feel that stylistically it doesn’t fit so well in the atmosphere the story is trying to cultivate. It’s a stylistic thing, but I thought I’d point that out. On a similar note, while I enjoyed the depiction of combat throughout, some scenes seem a bit overly-dramatic and overblown despite the “gritty” feel the game is trying to get across.

For instance, a guy gets shot as the MC sprints across the street; his buddy gets shot trying to help him. The amount of description here might actually be detrimental because firstly, the MC is sprinting and isn’t paying full attention, and secondly, it is happening in seconds.

It might even be more effective (if going for emotional shock) for the MC to hear this stuff behind them but not turn around until they’re in cover. When they’re in cover, they’d see the two dead already. It would be a narrow, “claustrophobic” POV, admittedly, but I think it’s a potential solution to a potential issue which I can’t entirely enunciate.

As mentioned earlier, it’s sort of like how the combat becomes secondary to points of drama or dialogue, instead of it being simultaneous to the drama or dialogue. The narrow focus on the guy getting shot and his buddy getting shot trying to help him, to me, took me out of the firefight. It might just be me though, and I can’t really offer any suggestions as to solving it either.

Rambling aside, I did quite enjoy it. Curious to see how the game develops. Keep up the good work.

[nauhziy]

@Zen1
Thank you for playing the game again! I appreciate it a lot and it really means a ton

@Zen1

I die because i refuse to obey. I die because of caesar. I die because i try to run.

In these cases, I think it’s quite obvious that while the choice is there, you’re more or less choosing certain death? In these cases, I would think that the MC dying would make sense hahaha.

That said, I’ll definitely think about how I can have less “forced” choices in this game!

@Arcane_warrior
Thank you so much! what would you like to see in the next few updates?

[nauhziy]

Hey! Thanks for stopping by and checking out the game - it seems like you definitely have a lot of experience in w/ these settings, and I definitely appreciate the detailed comments that you have!

Scene Comments

@Thfphen110

It seems odd to have to ask the platoon sergeant for a determinant of the platoon’s morale. Water and ammo makes sense, though I suppose it could have been specific.

This is more of a… protocol kind of thing - note that the MC doesn’t ask specifically, but it is the standard sitrep format, at least in this situation. I understand that it seems a been contrived, but the idea of a fire fight isn’t as dramatic as they make it out to be in the movies. Asking for a sit rep while in cover seems like a logical thing to do, at least in this situation, while the MC decides on the next move hahaha.

@Thfphen110

while all the sergeant needs to do is look around. In-universe, how does the sergeant know about ammo and water levels, for instance?

Of course, different units in different armies do it differently. I can understand what you mean about this - I’ll probably add in a line about Kosnik checking the men and seeing how much they have before responding.

@Thfphen110

I’m not entirely sure whether the whole exchange with the sergeant is entirely necessary.

Sorry, which exchange are you referring to?

@Thfphen110

though I question the reasoning behind abandoning it despite the casualties inflicted upon taking it. The objective was to advance and secure a new position, right?

You’re right actually - I was hoping no one would notice this sheepish grin because it was easier narrative wise. But great catch hahaha I think I could probably be able to reshape it into something like “hold the house until reinforcements come to relief us”.

@Thfphen110

but the platoon’s objective should be more clear cut - take this building, take ground etc.

In a professional army, this might be the case. And perhaps I haven’t truly painted the situation yet but looking at the enemy, I’m going for more of a militia-vibe? And therefore things might be a bit messier. Also, often in war there are a lot of vague and contradictory commands. I understand the confusion though, maybe I can make it less implicit as well!

@Thfphen110

One nitpick, but surely using the RPG inside the house against the truck would kill everyone with the backblast, unless they’re on the roof?

Hahaha I actually considered adding in the back blast but took it out cause it seemed a bit forced - that said, modern era (2000s) RPGs can be fired indoors or in bunkers, so while a LAW would probably incinerate everyone in the room, an RPG has a back blast of about 2m or so!

General Comments

@Thfphen110

On the use of onomatopoeia in the text, personally I’m not in favour of it.

Hmm, I know what you’re trying to get at, some of the onomatopoeia seem a bit awkward - how else would you suggest describing sounds? I thought it would be a good way to paint the scene hahaha

@Thfphen110

It might even be more effective (if going for emotional shock) for the MC to hear this stuff behind them but not turn around until they’re in cover. When they’re in cover, they’d see the two dead already.

This is an interesting style actually. I’ll consider it!! I think it makes sense to really pull the player into the MC’s pov instead of having a narrator. And I think it’s a valid point that could open up various other ways to explore how to depict such a scene!

There will be other moments - and I’ll play around with the POV as well, but I think that’s an interesting way to look at it, never really thought about it that way before hahahaha.

Thank you so much again for the comments and feedback!! They’re definitely very helpful in providing a different lens - especially for going back to the work and seeing what can be changed. Thank you so much!!

[Arcane_warrior]

More CQB combat and being able to choose what weapon you go into combat with same with armour and some more of the civilian encounters cause that scene was amazing.

[Thfphen110]

Thanks for the reply!

@nauhziy

This is more of a… protocol kind of thing…

Oh yeah I understand that, it’s just that via a combination of the onomatopoeia and the mention of the LMG at the end, the impression I got was that they were pinned down (which had started recently) as opposed to just being under fire. I guess there could be more description of the situation in general to prevent confusion amongst the reader. In general I think the concerns I have are largely the result of misconstruing things in the text.

@nauhziy

Sorry, which exchange are you referring to?

The “exchange” I was referring to was mainly just the sergeant saying the water/ammo/morale things out loud, as in the following mini-scene (“Glancing around…”) part of that is described there anyway.

@nauhziy

In a professional army, this might be the case…

My point was more along the lines of “why are they in a firefight in the first place”, which isn’t entirely explained short of a few comments after they take the house. And I suppose technically when ordered to take the town their company could be ordered to take a particular landmark or district. Though I fully agree with your point.

You could play the confusion into the plot or part of the MC’s internal monologue. For instance, ostensibly they’re meant to do X, but Y needs to be done beforehand and nobody has told them so they have to go and do it. Alternatively, they’re meant to take objective A, but that’s turning out to be impossible and they’ll have to settle for sub-objective D.

The MC’s bitterness towards these mistakes could play towards the possible reactions or flavour text, too.

@nauhziy

Hahaha I actually considered adding in the back blast…

Fair enough, I also forgot about that and also probably figured the rooms were a bit more cramped.

As an addendum to the weaponry things, perhaps capturing the LMG (as opposed to making it inoperable due to RPG fire, grenades etc) could give the MC’s platoon a bonus of some sort? It doesn’t seem like they have an LMG (they probably should, but it’s not mentioned), and I figure that might add some further variability to the various routes though it might also lead to an “optimal route” thing, which isn’t necessarily so bad.

@nauhziy

…how else would you suggest describing sounds?

As it is, I prefer how some sounds are described in the text as it is now. Bullets whizzing past, thumps, barking etc. Arguably, the onomatopoeia is to a degree already superfluous. If you wanted to do the more narrow-POV thing, you could focus upon things like ringing ears, or heavy breathing I suppose.

@nauhziy

I think it makes sense to really pull the player into the MC’s pov instead of having a narrator.

You don’t necessarily have to get rid of the narrator in that situation, just one with a more limited POV, as an option.

[Victoriya]

I think I just killed a civilian father when I meant to kill a soldier? It was pretty crazy. Especially when I had to deal with the wife.

[nauhziy]

@Arcane_warrior
CQB meaning close quarters combat and urban operations? Hmm tbh I haven’t thought too much into the combat system - what would you like to see? (disclaimer - I’ll try my best but idk what:s possible yet!!)

And the civilian scene, which route did you take?

@Thfphen110
Sure thing!!!

@Thfphen110

the impression I got was that they were pinned down (which had started recently) as opposed to just being under fire.

Ahhh I see what you mean. I guess that comes with throwing the player into the thick of things!!

@Thfphen110

… lay towards the possible reactions or flavour text, too.

Hmm this definitely happens all the time. Even in professional armies - and is often the hallmark of war in terms of the confusion sown and general messy state of affairs.

From a creative pov, I understand where you’re coming from in terms of building and creating that context! But at the same time I kind of wanted to evoke a sense of being in the moment where the player is forced to make decisions without really understanding the context - and then questioning “oh wait, what’s the point of this whole assault again?”.

That’s why a very brief description is introduced midway through the chapter, before the MC’s thoughts are pulled away to the oncoming threat once again. - > At least that was the expression I wanted to go for and I hope it managed to get across somewhat!! (also lmk if I go too much into the details and ramble hahaha)

@Thfphen110

As an addendum to the weaponry things, perhaps capturing the LMG (as opposed to making it inoperable due to RPG fire, grenades etc) could give the MC’s platoon a bonus of some sort?

Great suggestion!!! It’ll make sense when chapter 2 drops, but I’ll definitely think about this in the future - being able to requisition enemy resources would be very cool, and very devastating I imagine!

@Thfphen110

As it is, I prefer how some sounds are described in the text as it is now.

Hmmm, I hear you, but maybe it’s subjective too. I might just put this to a poll and see what people think hahaha.

@victoriya
Thanks for playing the demo!! Appreciate it It happens man… So what did you do??

[Arcane_warrior]

I used the RPG on the bunker then stormed the house ended up killing 2 civilians.

[nauhziy]

That’s… Pretty intense o.o and after that??

[cyanide]

I havent got to go trough the whole thread yet so sorry if this already been answered but is there any info about the factions yet? I see like 4 different group but I’m not sure of their ideologies. I’m assuming we’re probably helping this world own version of communism (Personally I think you should consider using alternative nake for ideologies to remind peoples that this is a different world. Not necessarily weird names but just different like ex: Communialism/equalitarism/etc)

But yeah. I’m just curious about the lore

[Arcane_warrior]

I ambushed the Armoured truck in the narrow street.

[nauhziy]

@cyanide
Hey! Thanks for playing the demo, I really appreciate it the short answer to your question is no - there isn’t too much information about the lore yet (much prefer the MC to slowly pick up bits and pieces in-game).

Hmm, what are the 4 factions you see? And also, why communism?

@cyanide

Personally I think you should consider using alternative nake for ideologies to remind peoples that this is a different world.

Totally agree!! If not sometimes it’s easy to forget and get caught up in the real world views hahaha. Thank you so much for your feedback!!! Appreciate it

@Arcane_warrior
I see I see. Did you manage to win that fight?

[cyanide]

Well the name of the main nation seems to include peoples republic wich well, its pretty communist.

The four groups I’m seing are the MPRA, LOM, DFFM and USS

Oh and I see races too!!! I love myself a “modern” high fantasy​:ok_hand:

[Arcane_warrior]

Yeah i attacked at the perfect moment when the truck was in the middle of my ambush.

[nauhziy]

@cyanide
Hahaha I wasn’t really going for any political party cause it sometimes incites very strong prejudices. Was wondering how you knew and I realised it was in the relationships page hahaha

But yes!! Not sure if I’m being too ambitious but I’m thinking of building an open world where the player can move around and be caught up in between the major factions.

Still working on chapter 2 where a lot more will become clearer so def look out for when it drops!!!

@Arcane_warrior
Sweeeet - writing some major branching based on that fight so you’ll definitely get to see something exciting

[nauhziy]

Status Update [28/07/19]

Been around 3 weeks since the demo has been out so a huge thank you to everyone who has taken time to play through it and offered your comments/feedback!

Almost done with Chapter 2 (introducing some real characters this time!) and working on creating an open world to bring the People’s Republic of Morovia to life! Managed to tinker around with ChoiceScript and come up with a way to track in-game time, which I’ll be using to trigger certain events and push the game along

[Ferrata]

Hey man, just gotta say you’ve done an amazing job. I love this and really look forward to seeing more of it. A WIP as good as this makes me wish there were more modern military based games around here.

[Takashi_Shin]

This what look like if was in Blood on My Hands

yes I will cry like baby and my words are I hate this fucking war

[Takashi_Shin]

how life going for you nauhziy

[nauhziy]

@Ferrata
Thank you so much for your encouragement!! Yeah, I noticed there was a lack of modern/historical games (other than the really great swamp castle/ great tournament series by Philip Kempton, but even then it’s more of fantasy/medieval)

Personally I’m a huge armchair history buff (of sorts), so I really love going into the gritty details and psyche of these various episodes. I’ve also been in the army, so that’s a huge inspiration for the game as well! Thank you again and feel free to let me know if you have any questions or suggestions!!! Working on it rn and all inspiration would be very much appreciated

@Takashi_Shin
Hahahaha yes indeed - war is a pretty shitty situation all round, but I’m not sure how much crying will help too. Since you asked, let me give a quick status update!