What fictional characters do you think are Mary Sues?

Skynet? :thinking:

Well, it’s not infallible. But the damn genocidal AI keeps coming back no matter how many c̶r̶a̶p̶p̶y̶ ̶s̶e̶q̶u̶e̶l̶s̶ time-travelling attempts at wiping out the Connors and/or Resistance Leader Redshirts fail.

Godzilla? :slightly_smiling_face:

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i swear the one on the right is actually Goku in a dress and wig.
Edit: I also really love Ami she is cool.

I mean perfect Cell… and Buu… and anime Black… and Jiren…

I don’t think any of them fits… but,
this, of course, depends on the definition you have of Mary Sue. There is a video that is very fun and enlightening on the subject, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2-GIY9RTqU

You’re probably more caught up on the crappy sequels but didn’t the whole series start off the humans won so skynet tried to send people back but they couldn’t change the future no matter what it did. It’s loss is set in stone.

First, I commented about Mary Sues before and the reasons why I think that it’s a meaningless term.I stand to what I said back then so I’ll just copy my previous comment.

Secondly,

Seriously, this is starting to piss me off. When did everyone in the planet made a consensus that Rey is the ultimate example of a Mary Sue?

I’ll admit that despite not thinking that she was a Mary Sue ever, I wasn’t neither the biggest fan of her in The Force Awakens, I thought she was just ok, but at least I thought that The Last Jedi did an excellent job of flashing her out and presenting her as a really complex character.

Rey is just a person that is really dependent on external validation, that’s her big weakness and a great flaw that she works to overcome, during both movies she is really afraid of having to face the idea of being left alone and tries to seek comfort in figures that could substitute her parents such as Han or Luke. She is the person who grew up alone in a planet trying to raise herself, always hearing about legends of people like Luke hoping that she is a part of a greater destiny, a secret skywalker or a Solo…
That’s exactly why the reveal of her parents being nobody important is so powerful, she is completely terrified of hering that, she doesn’t receive the validation she so desperately wants, all her arc in the second movie is devoted to her working to overcome this and become emotionally dependent.

Character flaws are not only something that means not being good at a skill, it usually has more to do with internal struggles and conflicts between what a character desires and what they learn in order to grow what creates good flaws and compelling character arcs.

If there is a term that is more misused than Mary Sue it has to be Deus Ex Machina.
A Deus Ex Machina is a something unestablished that resolves a conflict, that’s all that it is, just because something seems convenient or too easy is not a Deux Ex Machina.

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Is Rey’s ability to lift multiple rocks with the force established? Or her ability with a spaceship gun? Or her ability to find the exact spot they need to land to find the folks inside the cave?

I know what the term means, and I don’t believe I’m being disingenuous when I use it here, because a lot of the things Rey does is deus ex machina. She doesn’t have an established skillset, she gets new skills as the plot requires it, and uses them flawlessly

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Actually there’s a pretty logical question to ask here… is it possible for someone to write a Reader Insert fiction where it’s not a Mary Sue? Assuming that they’re themselves and not a non-specific fic for the reader themselves to be integrated into…

I watched TLJ without ever seeing the force awakens.

I didn’t see a single real Mary Sue. EVERY. SINGLE. CHARACTER. Was a Fuck up.

Rey being onboard didn’t really help stop snoke and kylo did all the work against the guards all she basically did was defend herself as best she could.

Finn and Rose ( who was the most interesting character outside of Yoda 1v1 me bro) didn’t need to be onboard or go to the casino planet at all.

Hojo should have done ramming speed immediately because if you HAVE to be onboard ( Autopilot doesn’t exist?) Then why aren’t you doing something useful firing guns or ramming. Standing around drinking coffee waiting to die is stupid.

And Mexican Han Solo was completely forgettable.

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I actually usee to write myself into a universe when I was younger but my character kept getting beaten, humiliated, nearly killed, or losing everything . That particular character eventually left the country and got a job doing construction work and I stopped writing about him.

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And the rebellion in that movie are such incompetent military leaders it’s amazing that the first order didn’t just side swipe them imeditly. Even if they have worse leaders than the Soviet union after the great purge. And that hole getting blasted into the vacume of space and surviving, the feminest agenda and its safe to call that movie a complete piece of shit

The moment someone says “The feminist agenda” their opinion becomes less than a Charlie Brown teacher.

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Ouch, your saying my opinion is in valid for saying something stupidly obvious? It is impossible to deny that the last jedi had a agenda that they were pushing. Try and deny it I dare you

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What was that I didn’t quite catch that

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I’m sorry are you trying to drown out my vaild point because you have no argument against it? Kinda childish don’t you think we’re just having a civil discussion

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Don’t get personal guys, and its pointless to try and degrade someone’s argument either way. Just say your piece and let others say theirs

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Ignore him, you two clearly don’t agree and it’s pointless to continue it. Please don’t clog up the thread for others with argumentation that has nothing to do with the thread

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And here I was looking forward to a nice civil discussion on how the last jedi dosen’ t push a agenda

Please return back on topic but if you can’t resolve this issue. I will ask a mod to close this thread.

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Alright the real reason I came here. So I deffiently think that the ultra smurfs are Mary sues if only because they removed and remade so much plus gulliman returning