If it has anything to do with Kaoru’s conduct on this thread, it appears to be because Kaoru was speaking out against Anon’s ban, taking a “both sides bad” angle, and implying that us calling the Aura Clash fandom racists, sexists, homophobes, nazis, etc. (with screenshot evidence of the fandom using slurs) was equivalent to them using the aforementioned slurs and calling people on this forum pedophiles and groomers.
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Establishing false equivalencies to bring down people to your level who want to enforce protective speech in defense of the community at large is a classic tactic to delegitimize and equate good and righteous acts with bad ones.
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The mods and owners have said that repeatedly on this thread, mon frere:
I understand the urge to, like Natwa, ask for receipts, or say with AudioApe “I haven’t seen any examples.” But Malin was right in saying:
When trolls start coming over from a cesspit site, the right mod response is to vanish their trolling with as little drama as possible. No site wars, no flame-fests, nothing that makes it fun or satisfying for the trolls. They can keep their little trophy wall of screenshots from now-vanished threads – maybe even telling themselves it’s material for some future libel case! – but it’ll be hard for them to sustain much energy or interest if no one on the CoG forums knows who they are.
I saw it happen during my time as a mod, as I think you know, CM. When today’s mods say it’s happened again, I believe them.
I’m glad they handled it quietly for as long as they could; I’m glad they’re giving this space for people to vent their frustrations at the ban of a popular author and game; and I’m glad that we’re no longer sharing Discord screenshots, so the troll-rage can fade into deserved oblivion again.
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I agree.
Right now the best thing to do would be to answer questions and communicate with each other respectfully.
This community is inclusive and welcoming to everyone who has kindness, empathy and compassion in their hearts.
People mistake compassion and empathy as weakness. But it can in fact lead to strength. Especially when you watch the community close ranks and stand up for the beliefs and ethos that this forum and company want.
A kind and inclusive community for all who want to join with an open mind and an open heart.
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Okay, that last line legitimately made me laugh. Well done.
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Fair enough. I took a look at that thread yesterday and didn’t see anything remotely out of place, so it’s a little difficult to understand all this because of the lack of real evidence of anything happening on the forum. If scores of witnesses are saying it happened all the time, then I guess that’s proof enough, but I suppose the question remains: if this has been happening on the forum, why is the discord directly named as the reason for this action? Why were there screenshots of the discord, but none of the forum (I know why, but you see my point about the lack of evidence)?
I feel like this would go over a lot better if they just said that they were locking the thread because it has become unnecessarily taxing to moderate, instead of citing things that didn’t even happen here. Although I don’t know if that’s enough for a ban, but maybe there were other things happening behind the scenes that led to that.
Edit:
I’ve been of the opinion for awhile now that mods should just hide comments instead of deleting them outright for this exact reason. It is removed from the equation, but there is also evidence that it existed.
You’re misunderstanding me. I didn’t say they didn’t happen here, I said they were citing things that didn’t happen here. The discord was listed as the reason for all this, with screenshots to boot. I’m saying the discord shouldn’t have ever been in this discussion. The closing of the thread, the banning, and the entire discussion following it should have been about the actions on the forum, not the actions on a place we don’t even go.
You see what I’m getting at? I can elaborate more if it still confusing.
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A good choice,all and all which actually reminds me of something that has been bugging me for a while
Interactive storytelling, particularly through Choice of Games, has always been about one thing above all: freedom of choice. You build a character from the ground up, shape their personality, make decisions that ripple through the world around them, and forge bonds in all kinds of ways. It’s a living, breathing form of art, far beyond the old “choose your own adventure” stereotype where you guided a cardboard cutout through a page-flipping dungeon and maybe rolled a die or two.
This freedom naturally resonates with people who struggle to find it in their everyday lives: LGBTQ+ folks, people of color, marginalized communities. In these games, you can express yourself through your player character, explore identities, desires, and stories that are often denied space in the mainstream. The genre offers not just escapism, but empowerment.
Which brings me to the point, the presence of right-wing ideologies in this space. Now, I probably don’t need to tell you that these ideologies aren’t exactly known for their tolerance, whether toward art, difference, or freedom of expression.
When that mindset enters a medium built on choice and empathy, the results are often shallow and jarring. You get works that feel like hollow shells, created not out of passion or creativity, but out of self-gratification for the author, with little thought for the audience’s experience. We’ve seen it before. Self-proclaimed culture warriors spend their time sneering at “woke” media, only to churn out derivative, cliché-ridden stories that seem more concerned with airing personal grievances than telling a compelling tale.
Because the truth is, without openness, there is no art. Without freedom, there is no choice. And without empathy, interactive fiction is just a flowchart with delusions of grandeur.
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Sad news about his views. I guess im not suprised though, isnt he from russia?
that would be niki, he is from russia and initially had gay romance options in his game, PoMA, but had to take them out in fear of the government persecution due to russia’s laws against homosexuality
and cultivator, ironically enough, is in the US, and lives in one of the more progressive states in the country, he literally has no excuse for his actions or behavior
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The fact that your hypothetical is missing is that cultivator OWNED the discord. The message was very clear, if you are in charge of your community, you have to police it because you have absolutely no excuse for not speaking up. Either that, which would mean banning offenders, or you’re a member and have the option to leave. If you do not have the time or resources to police your community then don’t start a discord server or subreddit. But when you have every tool to disassociate yourself from hate speech ie banning the person or leaving the space then your silence is complicity.
Hope this assuages your worries
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CoG isn’t my government to be concerning itself with my freedom of speech. And my actual government is already empowered to restrict one’s freedom of speech in certain cases too, which in my opinion should be more extensive to protect our way of life from radicalizing forces but that’s neither here nor there as this is not a governmental referendum.
Why do people repeatedly appeal to “freedom of speech” as a catch all excuse for why private citizens should not be shaming and shunning them over…actively downplaying, defending, roleplaying and promoting Nazi ideas, I wonder? Criticize us all day about their freedom of speech which doesn’t exist in this space when they’ve demonstrated any other democratic values are remotely important to them including but not limited to the equality of mankind. Do I think freedom of speech has become less free? No I do not, at least not in relation to anything relevant here. I do know for a fact however that a tolerant society’s rights and dignities degrade for everyone when it allows the spread of identity based hatred. Paradox of tolerance, friend.
“But you all hate them and that’s not being suppressed?”One might think that, and I would say: “Lol. Lmao even.” Sure, some might feel that way, but it isn’t for their arbitrary demographics they can’t change. It’s for their fundamental character flaws and general unpleasantness. And I don’t think they’ve forfeited their human rights, only the privilege to be in this space. Not that they’re the types to want to hang around with a bunch of ~sensitive, tyrannical liberals~ anyway, so seems like they were done a favor. Isn’t it better to be released from the need to “walk on eggshells to appease the mob” or whatever? Be happy for the guy, he gained patreon supporters from the suckers with too much money getting mad their likely similar behavior was being denounced, lol.
Hitler allegedly nearly drowned in a river as a kid. Someone saved him. We wouldn’t have had Hitler in the scenario he drowned instead, either. Should that Good Samaritan have held a child’s head underwater?
What is your point with this? That it’s potentially everybody else’s shared fault for not being welcoming enough to the folks proudly proclaiming their hatred and resentment for large swathes of the populace? That if only we’d all extend extra privileges of patience and attention to nurture people who don’t even want everyone to have basic respect let alone rights, we’d all be singing kumbayah? Don’t think that’s it. If not receiving universal celebration for showing up despite being both woefully average and lacking in moral backbone or self-awareness is what’s between them and not committing grave crimes against humanity, that’s a problem to work out with a therapist, not a random online forum.
I will say, however, I appreciate your honesty. Admitting to having been attracted to Neo-Nazism prior is a lot more gutsy than anon and co are capable of at this juncture. Throwing out Nazi garbage and playing buddy buddy with people who proudly throw out Nazi garbage and then getting mad you were called a Nazi is pretty pathetic. Stand by your own words and actions like adults.
And a general statement for all those who are somehow still under the impression “it’s just words,” well, I hate to be the one to inform you you’re deluding yourselves. And frankly you’re falling for a lot of the transparent plausible deniability that isn’t even that plausible in this scenario. Words are powerful tools of persuasion. Words are where culture begins and ends. We wouldn’t be here if conversations, if words did not play a profound role in all our lives. Everything we consume has an impact, regardless of what that impact is or how significant. If you think you’re so above it all, you’re either congratulating yourself on your uniquely independent thoughts that exist in a magical vacuum outside human experience or worse, you’re unaware that you are actively being influenced each day. An incomprehensibly massive body of psychological and sociological studies and historical accounts are not on your side in this matter regardless of how you’d like to see yourself as strong and others as the lone weaklings. It’s an ironically emotionally dysregulated thought process to be so smug about rejecting empathy and understanding for how we as humans interpret information.
Slurs and inflammatory statements from wannabe edgelords aren’t on the same scale of threat as burning crosses or hate crimes, no, but policies and systems of violence have no legs to stand on without the culture that propagates them, without all the millions of “merely distasteful” people willing to ignore or secretly support them, without all the spreading of their contempt through blatant, underhanded and unconscious tactics alike. Without all the desensitization and acceptance of its normalcy. And that’s not getting into the words in of themselves causing genuine harm because as has been confirmed again and again, words are not “just words.” Words are our lens through which the entire world unfolds. Words are how we communicate and connect with anyone beyond ourselves. Continue shrugging it all off as though it’s meaningless, and you might realize you’ve been letting your mouth write checks you can’t actually cash some day.
Edit:
For the love of God, as a black man you should know that whole “today’s culture” being uniquely sensitive claim is absolute bullshit, first of all. The majority were losing their minds about something as basic as sharing the same fucking public buildings with folks who look like us not that long ago, and still are to a lesser extent today. People are as “sensitive” as they’ve always been. And I’ve heard a lot worse all my life too, so don’t start with that.
There is not a single thing irrational or over-emotional about valuing civility and shutting down unnecessary and again, severely dysregulated, cruelty or pointless disrespect. Even if you perceive things differently…okay? Does it harm us in some tangible way to try to assume the best of others and their intelligence and clarify or express empathy accordingly? We all interpret words, symbols and the rest based on our own subjective experiences and whatever our point of reference is. It ain’t that hard to join the table with an open, accommodating attitude.
And as for the rest of your post, why are you under the impression it would be productive to go get into a back and forth with them in their discord instead of throwing them out, venting a little and ultimately saving our breath? Because it would feel satisfying in some manner to start shit? Prove we have “thick skin” to people who are clowns? Are they supposed to suddenly care in two seconds flat? Why feed into the gaping black holes where their maturity should be with indefinite attention? By your logic, you’re essentially wasting your own time too.
Honestly, end of the day, it just gets boring entertaining people like that as if there’s anything legitimate about any of their commentary and/or raises everybody’s blood pressure for no reason. Daily life shouldn’t be filled with heaps of nonsense, fuckery poured in means fuckery leaking out. Healthy for the soul to maintain a distance from constant ignorance, anger or otherwise negative merry go rounds.
What are you thinking we should all be doing about internet assholes anyway, going full postal, doxxing and starting violence with the next guy who looks at us wrong? I understand the frustration with the seemingly endless cycle, but reckless and unmitigated violence, outside of moral qualms, largely undermines progress and is mainly a self-focused way to blow off one’s own personal emotions rather than contribute to stabilizing anything. It’s not worth it for a wide variety of reasons.
All that aside, this wasn’t about jackass rehabilitation, or organizing a movement or harassment campaign against them in the first place. It was about, y’know, shooing them and their comrades out of the house so we can metaphorically read the fucking newspaper in peace and quiet. And establishing new rules or to continue the analogy, hanging up the “no solicitors” sign on the door.
But to answer your last question about what you did, likely it’s because you made yourself look and sound like an infiltrator from the discord by adding zero context to your original comment. I misunderstood the angle before too so that was my bad. Either way, still no call for you showing up to a club you have minimal stock in just to say “well actually, y’all ain’t doing enough according to me, anyway.” What did you think this was, the Black Panthers revival? 
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It’s censorship, not fascism. Just have to point it out.
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Im on this site all and i dont run in any communties beside my faimly ig im a working man with 3 kids no time for this stuff usually but as i said before all i see are people being overly sensitive im a black man in america that N word shit dont bother me because ik what i am not saying he wasnt out of pocket hed get sent somewhere he cant come back from in my hood but thats not the point from what ive seen most people either didnt know about the discord and plainly didnt even know about the IF wip wjatever you wanna call it im old fashion i suppose growing up in the south that shit aint nun new had folks tell me they was gons string me up and let me swing wigh my monkey ancestors and dont get me started with the police i say all that to say this which i said before its a game somethings arent made for everyone and if you dont like it dont stick around id like to know what all the people that took a screenshot did besides sent those pics to the mods gay and racist comments alike did you say anything back to those people or just run back here to vent how much your upset??? Why arent people from here going to his discord storming his discord flooding it with all the things they abhor like i said all ive seen is sensitive people doing nothing to really address and fix the issue the issue didnt even start here and for the ones who say theyre coming from his discord to the CoG forum i once again ask why havent you done the same??? All i hear is talk like my ancestors did for the past 100 years you all are complaining in this thread truly accomplishing nothing besides waisting your time
Oh and the fact the you believe what i said earlier deserve a official warning is hilarious and a sad example of todays culture say honestlly what did i say that ruffed your feathers?
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No, it’s like being asked to leave a club room and never come back. Anon’s free to do his thing and surround himself with shitlords literally anywhere but here. It’s not his right to be here, specifically.
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Im literally new to this forum but i already seeing this drama… but hey the good thing is whatever this guy anon is actually get banned for him, and his fanbase behavior, racism, facism, and anti lgbt is very very rude behavior a community can get, thanks to all the mods and staff and also the owner to actually doing something on this, good job guys : )
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There’s a simple social contract at play here when it comes to privately owned online spaces: namely that the owners of that space can invite and expel whoever they want on whatever grounds they choose to use - doubly so when it’s a free service.
In the context of a space like this one, the user base continues to have access to that space as a privilege conferred by the owners, not as a right - but if they disagree with the way which the space owners exercise that power, they are well within their rights to leave. That’s not nothing. Online spaces gain value based on the people in them, and if nobody agrees with the owners’ rationale for using their legitimate powers of ownership, and everyone leaves, then that space no longer has value.
This isn’t a censorship issue any more than a known troublemaker getting thrown out of a bar is a censorship issue. The expelled party has the right to complain elsewhere, their friends have the right to complain too, but if the rest of the bar thinks that the expulsion was good riddance to bad rubbish, and that the bar’s ambiance is improved by said expulsion, then those complaints do nothing except make the complainants look like petty dickheads willing to support their asshole friend over the accepted values of civil society.
At this point, it’s pretty clear the vast majority of the community supports the ban, and supports both the value system which justifies the ban and condemns the value system which the banned party seems intent on clinging to. The individuals reaching for bad faith “free speech” arguments against it aren’t so much convincing anyone as they are showing themselves to be just as incompatible with the stated values of the people who own this space and maintain power over it - as well as those of the vast majority of its members.
If those people want to continue parading in the public square, showing their whole ass, then I don’t really think they’re doing anything but proving themselves to be incompatible with a forum intending to serve fans of a genre which, by definition, requires literacy, critical thinking skills, and a functioning moral compass.
Or they could just leave, shuffle off back into the fuhrerbunker, where I’m sure their glorious leader will be happy to welcome their own coping and seething as accompaniment to his own.
TL/DR:
In the strictest sense, we don’t.
What the mods and staff cared about was the racism from said Discord server being imported here by the people from that server, which the offending party did nothing to stop despite being warned multiple times.
This is something that’s been repeated at least a dozen times in this thread by various mods and staff members already - including in the very first post, which… a distressing number of people seem to be incapable of reading.
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Lol. Lmao, even.
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You’ll have to fogive me but i don’t really see the point of why any of us should are about the racism in a discord server(not that i approve it). We all expected to behave and act according to this forums rules when not here.
Not defending Cultivator at all. If your going to run a discord at the same time as a Patreon and interacting on this forum. Cultivator had an obligation to insure this Discord was kept clean of anything that could have rocked the boat.
And if cultivator wants to be in that kind of environment Anon really shouldn’t advertise it. And use the same name at that.
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The “defamation lawsuit”, btw, is allegedly no longer happening, possibly because cultanon decided he beat his chest enough to rescue his pride, possibly because he actually called a lawyer who laughed and told him to pull the other leg.
This has run its course and grown boring, I expect the thread will close soon and we’ll have forgotten about it in a week or two. It’s been real, peace and love everyone (except to nazi punks)
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And nothing of value was lost.
At this point, I would just assume anyone arguing against the ban to be doing it in bad faith. Painting the removal of a raging bigot and racist as a slippery slope is not a reasonable and natural response.
Also, if you value the anon’s work so much you’re willing to look past him as a person and his audience, noone is stopping you, or even seriously, publicly judging. Google is free, you can find his patreon, his discord, whatever. You’re free to go and support him, just not here.
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