Vendetta: Rise of a Gangster -- Reinvented

I doubt it due the racism and discrimination against poor and Italian. Also I can’t imagine my college student in a sport whatever :slight_smile:

1 Like

For the most part in the US if you look white you are white, or so many people keep telling me and unless the mc is really unlucky with their skin colour most Italians are white and athletics so happens to be a field where people have always been glad to exploit poor minorities.
There is also the fact that people find it much easier to other and discriminate against different groups of people when they were not in any sort of close, personal contact with them. Of course that doesn’t mean there will be no ignorant jackasses who don’t have it in for the mc at college but unless the mc is a particularly easy target they won’t be in the majority.

Fair enough it should probably be optional, whereas I can definitely see my mc doing so if given the opportunity as he used to be a very physically active boy, what with being a former Hellion and all and just sitting down and growing fat wouldn’t be his style.

1 Like

Well, I wasn’t expecting to have my first post in this topic be about racism in America but here we are.

Obviously, I can’t speak for the experiences of those who lived in this era, as I am but a young, avocado-toast-eating Millennial, but as a light-skinned minority, let me tell you, this is 100% true.

Whiteness in America is measured mostly by skin-color rather than any shared heritage.

People of Northern European heritage and Southern European heritage would both be considered white by American standards, so long as their skin color wasn’t, say, darker than Mila Kunis? Olive skin seems to be the nebulous line of whiteness, as many pale people spraytan to that color for a ‘sun-kissed glow’
But yeah, everything deeper than that and people start asking what country you’re from.

Anyway, I’ll go back to lurking now, thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

8 Likes

Pre 1960’s immigration policy (which is what Trump will try to take us back to imo) dictated that Europe was the primary source of immigration. As a result, comparison is harder to make across the eras.

In Vendetta’s era, the Irish, the Italians and the Jews all were on the tail end of their non-integrated period with first generation immigrants who normally spoke only the home country’s language if older.

What this meant is that these groups were discriminated against, and not only in the South. The Irish were especially hated at the turn of the century because the Potato famine brought a huge number of them to the ports, like New York. The riots during the Civil War New York saw Irish and blacks especially targeted.

So, @Vendetta’s depiction of the street gangs in Hell’s Kitchen pretty much was true all the way to the 1920s.

We don’t know yet, but if Vendetta continues to follow the historical example, the Irish, Jewish and Italian mobs will fight it out for the most part. The English Anglo-Saxon street gangs of the 1840’s to 1900’s you see in the Broadway 1849 CoG game did not survive.

It wasn’t until after WW2 that Italian-Americans were “accepted” into the Melting Pot and it was the 1960’s and after when immigration policy and laws were changed that Europeans = white really came about.

10 Likes

Oh, right! This would have been near the era of Irishman Need Not Apply, correct?

2 Likes

Yes! - basically all those hateful things we see in the 1960’s South we saw for the Irish and Italians in the Vendetta era too… signs, separate but not equal, etc.

2 Likes

Even now I am pale as hell and European but like my accent is clearly Spanish I had suffered racism each time I played a game online on 360 … And sum to the injury the fact i am a girl.

So I can’t imagine how could have been being Spanish or Italian back then… So I hardly doubt someone put an Italian as captain in a University . I see more pausible that people would stop a Italian in a college "Saying this is a students only area . Workers are out limits. Go learn to read Guiussepe " or something like that.

1 Like

IIRC wasn’t there also a depressing trend for urban, well-educated and generally lighter skinned Northern Italians to make themselves seem like a distinct nationality of “good” immigrants? As opposed to the “bad” southern Italians and Sicilians.

“Oh we’re not like those Italians, we’re from Genoa.” kind of attitude? I’m pretty sure Northern Italians still got discriminated against anyway but they tried to be seen as “white”. I’m not remotely an expert to any degree but I get the feeling “whiteness” at that time in American history had a very narrow definition and strictly meant “White Anglo-Saxon Protestant.”

4 Likes

I personally wouldn’t like that. Then we’d have to be implied as bi(if planning on going lgbt route), a la fallout 4 -ish route with romance. :confused:

2 Likes

True, but unlike with some other groups there were educated Italian Americans from very early on with the first Italian American Congressman being elected in 1887. Around the time of the mc one of America’s biggest male sex-symbol/celebrities was Valentino. Also don’t forget for a highly educated example of a half-Italian/ half Jewish American from the time period fiorello La Guardia. Ironically an indirect, menacing nemesis of our mc’s as he founded the FBI

It is in addition worth noting that as @Eiwynn said the 1920’s were already something of a tail-end as according to Wikipedia: “By 1920, the Little Italies had stabilized and grown considerably more prosperous as workers were able to obtain higher-paying jobs, often in skilled trades. English was now the language most commonly heard on the streets of the Little Italies.”

It also shows the American universities of the period would use (appropriately light-skinned) Italian-Americans as coaches and players when it suited them. Granted captain may be an overreach, his informal second in command, who may do much of the leading and organizing in practice (for none of the credit) may be more attainable however if the mc is good enough at the extra-curricular sport in question.

Though it is true the real end to the large and overt discrimination of Italian Americans seems to have happened during WW2 (for the US armed-forces) and afterwards for the rest of the country.

2 Likes

Cool. Do you mean that, if the female MC chooses to be have a romantic interest in Billy, this can happen, and it can change the intensity and fervor with which she pursues revenge? That could be quite interesting!

This could also bring up feelings for her about “daring to love again” since her first romantic attachment died so badly, if the player wishes to follow up with other ROs.

1 Like

To add on to what @Eiwynn said, there have also been peoples “dropped” from the definition of “white.” In particular, in this period Mexicans and other Hispanics were not precisely considered the equals of WASPs, but they were considered more “white” than European Catholics, to the point that the Ku Klux Klan was fairly active in trying to recruit Hispanic-Americans as allies against blacks, the Chinese in the West and the Irish/Italians in the East. Nowadays, of course, you have fairly aggressive racism towards Mexican immigrants while European Catholics are seen as white and most Asian-American ethnicities (except Middle Easterners) are largely accepted.

(Ironically, it was just as Irish and Italians started winning acceptance that anti-Mexican sentiment started to become a major force. Go figure.)

In America, nativist hate is directed at wherever the Know-Nothings think most of the immigrants come from.

9 Likes

I’m not sure that nativists draw such fine distinctions.

2 Likes

Most Middle-Easterners would be able to pass as white in the US today as long as they dressed like natives and spoke decent English. It’s public displays of Muslim faith that draw the most negative attention due to the commonly perceived association of Islam with al Qaeda and ISIS, and to a lesser extent, poor English skills.

3 Likes

The union issue is one of the two main problems you have to deal with for the new factory, as Adamo is completely out of his league. The Union Organizer does have the advantage here, in actually working (on the side at least) for ATWU – the Amalgamated Textile Workers Union. Those can be valuable strings to pull.

The other potential problem is not so easy to solve – other than by methods Adamo detests – so it’s a bit of a conundrum… In comparison, the hygiene facilities will likely take a backseat. :wink:

Maybe captain of the Chess club? It’s unlikely it had the same connotations back then as in more recent times! :smiley:

It sounds like a good bet. :wink: Our protagonist does have some intriguing choices along the way though, allowing you to decide just how important (or not) your own roots are to you. For example, it’s possible to secretly be in league with the Irish docklands gang from a very early stage, and attempt to to use them to help achieve your own ambitions. It’s a bit of a tightrope to walk though…

In the flashback sequence, where you first encounter Rosie Mallory there is now an extra choice when she makes her move on Billy – you can react to that depending on how close you perceive your own relationship with him (or your feelings for her) to be. It’s also one of the new bits the game uses to help determine the MC’s sexual orientation, for both genders.

There is definitely an element of that in particular circumstances, yes.

7 Likes

Still they are possibly vital for running a good gay club, particularly if we want to have live nude wrestling. :wink:

Awww…But it’s his dreams on the line there (and well providing a legitimate business front to keep my mc off the IRS radar).

Chess is nice but it doesn’t really improve physical fitness or cuteness, now does it. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

2 Likes

@Vendetta I was wondering if Burlesque girl could have been done those early spicy pictures you can see from early 17 to 30ths Maybe even trying to be in a mute film and fail miserably. The time was very interesting and very complicated. Carl Gable had to be a male escort in his youth same for others so even a mere small background data could be interesting and useful. I know this is about mafia not about sharing shady business with Hollywood lol.

1 Like

I don’t know if I really spoke in this forum yet but I wanted to tell you @Vendetta that I’m glad your game is back and I was thinking about it not too long ago wishing I could see it up and running again and WA-LA, here it is!

So I’ll be lurkin’. I’ll play the new demo when it’s out and all that good jazz!

Welcome back! :confetti_ball:

1 Like

What is everyone’s favorite background?

  • Street Gang Leader
  • Paroled Ex-Convict
  • WWI Veteran Soldier
  • College Graduate
  • Black Hand Member
  • Ex Police Officer
  • Business Entrepreneur
  • Union Organizer
  • Political Bagman

0 voters

3 Likes

@Vendetta
Do the two backgrounds being given Primary Status always share the same stats? Because, looking at the polls so far, some of the male backgrounds are far more popular than the corresponding female ones (College Student/Grifter), or vice versa (Political Bagman/Burlesque Dancer).

1 Like