Thoughts about Vampire traits (or: Our Vampires Are Different: The Game)

I see a few problems with this. I realize that I was suggesting some rather silly things earlier, but for this post, I’m actually going to be serious.

Aside from what Havenstone and P_Tigras have said, another issue is that you are taking some kind of strange half-mix of an atheist approach to vampires saying that centuries ago the Devil was able to curse some mortals and make them into vampires, and throughout those centuries and to the present, it seems to me, at least, that you are operating on the premise of no God since God is unable to do anything to the vampires. So basically, in your world, there is a Devil, and no God, which would make for a world that would not last all those centuries since there would be an incredibly powerful evil begin with no good to balance it out.

If you are going with this idea, you are going to have to either explain some other way that vampires first came about (please don’t say a virus or some other such zombie-parasite-nonsense that caused vampirism), or you’ll have to make God able to take an active role in SOMETHING having to do with the vampires, even if it is something like, suppose he doesn’t choose to hurt the vampires in the sunlight and instead offers them some kind of cure. Perhaps if they stay in the sun for twenty hours straight, they’ll turn human. Twenty hours, of course, would mean either going to Alaska or moving far to the west during the day. Just my thoughts on the matter…

EDIT: I just saw @Kitty9 's new post, and if the sun does harm them, contrary to what the first post by trollhunterthethird and all after seemed to suggest, then there are only a few problems with the intelligence of vampires to stand in the way of this.

What’s wrong with a virus causing vampirism?

This isn’t my game, but I think what I would basically suggest to the author is that although many of the members on this I’m sure have a great knowledge on subjects like this, it wouldn’t hurt to research on how vampires came to be, why they have their weaknesses and so on. It’s easier to create a story when you have the actual facts and you can then make your own original game. :slight_smile:
@Galador To be honest when I put in theory I hadn’t particularly thought of the bigger picture, since a lot of the comments before mine had been on the sun and it’s effects on vampires I just thought I’d share my ideas.

@FairyGodfeather Vampires, no matter how you try to make them lame high school students who sparkle in the sunlight, are magical creatures, and to say that they are diseased and brought into being by a virus is just ludicrous. Also, I HATE zombies, and that is too close to how zombies are commonly brought about nowadays. Also, since vampires are magical, that would mean you need a magical parasite, and that’s no fun.

@Kitty9 That is great advice to the author and I totally agree! At first there was nothing wrong with your post, but as your conversation with trollhunterthethird went on, it seemed to be drifting more and more down the lines of “Well, obviously the Devil is real and God is not,” which I don’t think was your original intention. And I have nothing against people sharing their ideas! (If I knew how to make a smiley face, I would put one here.)

@Galador Thank you! That definitely wasn’t our intention but I can see how you could have thought that. This is very interesting idea and I think it is easy to get a bit carried away. (To do a smiley face you use the little smiley icon in the corner of the comment box.) :slight_smile:

Why not? If people can be magical then can’t viruses be magical too?

I’d pull out the vampirism/rabies comparison, with vampirism being transmitted through a bite, like rabies and having similar symptons until you fall down dead, and then several days later you rise as a vampire.

I think it would be possible to do a fully virus based vampire, with no actual magic, but I’d also strip away most of their powers doing that. So no turning into impossible creatures.

Nothing wrong with magical parasites either. I think exploring “what causes vampirism” is an interesting way to start creating your own vampire mythology.

I’m with @FairyGodfeather on this one; a Virus-Vampire sounds plausible, and a good concept to explore.

@Galador @FairyGodfeather

Brian Lumley does great with a vampire parasite in the Necroscope series and the spin offs.

@FairyGodfeather @Drazen @Nocturnal_Stillness I’m okay with magical parasites. It’s just my personal opinion that those magical parasites having the ability to, after it kills things, raise them from the dead as other creatures is stupid. Once again, just my personal opinion. You can disagree if you want.

@Kitty9 Thanks for the smiley face tip! :stuck_out_tongue:

I don’t think there is much novelty in your idea. The vampires you describe aren’t all that different from what is popular today, in fact, they seem dreadfully dull. I don’t mean to be rude, but the sort of thing you’re suggesting seems like something out of an angst-ridden teenager’s journal.

Besides, there is already a quality choicescript vampire game here. I don’t think you’ll top it.

I think it is possible to do a story about vampirism which is fully grounded in reality with no magical elements as such. Where vampirism is a virus transmitted by a bite (or perhaps several bites over a case of nights depending on what version of the mythos you’re going for.) Once infected they develop severe anaemia, causing them to look pale and to crave blood, extreme photo-sensitivity, hence why they avoid sunlight.

And it infects the brain, causing them to be more aggressive and short-tempered. Perhaps it even creates OCD symptoms, so that they become obsessed with routine, with counting, an inability to enter places unless invited and the like. Which are just mental blocks.

Of coruse if I was taking that route I’d definitely do actual proper research as opposed to rattling things off the top of my head. Trying to do actual research though lead me to a bunch of websites about real vampires and http://amarisgrey.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/the-medical-truth-behind-the-vampire-myths/

I’m not intending to do ‘real’ vampires though and mine will definitely have a supernatural component to them as opposed to being grounded in reality. But even then I think you need to follow through on possibilities and explore it. If Vampirism actually existed I’ve no doubt that at least one person would be on the look out for a possible cure, and if it’s a modern setting science and the medical community is the way to go. There’s no way that absolutely no vampires would end up in hospital, and have to undergo a series of blood tests. Is there sonmething innately different about vampire blood, and if so what is it. ‘Virus’ is a word that it’s very easy for us to use to label the condition. I’d at least think about what would happen if a vampire did end up in hospital and the doctors were trying to work out what was wrong with them.

Of course the doctors might be completely mystified because vampirism is entirely supernatural in origin, but they’d still at least attempt to cure the symptoms even if the cause baffled them.

I also think the whole “cure for vampirism” is a fantastic plotline and that it’s easiest done if vampirism is said to be virus-based. Then you have the problem of a government trying to force all vampires to take the specially developed antiviral drugs with vampires claiming their vampirism is a part of their identity and they have no desire to do so. That the super-strength, speed, extended lifespan, rapid-heading is worth the drawbacks of photosensitivity and the thirst for blood.

Just to be clear, that wasn’t our intention at all! Just a bit of brain storming and then some. Although there are a lots of ways vampires can be defined, for better or for worse. Although I do like fairy’s Idea.

@Eindride I think it’s far too easy to dismiss what’s popular today. I think analysing why it’s popular is the way to go though as opposed to copying it. I don’t think a story needs novelty to be interesting. I think as far as vampire tropes go, sparkling in the sun is fairly novel since it is generally the opposite of what you’d expect from a creature of the night.

I’d be focusing on questions such as:

What is it that makes Twilight popular? What is it about the Twilight vampires that so many feel is compelling? How could you recreate that sort of experience in a piece of interactive fiction? Now I’ve never actually read Twilight. I’ve never seen the movies.

And then. What is it about vampires in general that people find compelling. There’s so many articles out there though that I don’t need to repeat what they’ve said.

I think the existence of one vampire game doesn’t preclude the existence of another, or several others.

I would disagree with holding up Choice of a Vampire as an example of originality. Which isn’t to comment on its quality, as a piece of interactive fiction it works, it’s a game that so many people enjoy playing and what has inspired it doesn’t matter. Choice of the Vampire draws heavily upon White Wolf vampires, and I’d also say there’s at least a splash of Anne Rice in there. It’s not that interesting a take on the vampiric condition, it does nothing with vampries that I’ve not seen in the countless rps I’ve played. The journey through history while certainly a staple of the genre, it’s good to be able to play out. Note this isn’t a criticism against Choice of the Vampire, far from it.

I also think there’s nothing wrong in appealing to those angst-ridden teens who write journals and love vampires. I think a game with an angst-ridden journal would be interesting.

@FairyGodfeather I have a confession to make… I never READ the Twilight books, but I have seen the first two movies. They actually weren’t bad if you could get past the whole thing about sparkling vampires just trying to fit in with the humans and be happy. If that and the whole thing about them attending high school and graduating hundreds of times was removed from the plot, I think it would have been much better! Seriously, they could do so much with their immortal lives and instead they hook up with teenagers and attend high school forever??? That’s ridiculous. There were some good parts of the plot though, at least to me. That the main characters were outcasts from vampire society had some potential! And the fact that there were evil vampires hunting them was interesting! I legitimately liked those aspects.

I think what most people dislike about the vampires in Twilight is the sparkling and the trying to fit into human society with personalities like they had. It is completely normal for vampires to try to assimilate into society, but when you make them high school students and try to make it really modern and change the whole established mentality of vampires, that’s when people get annoyed. I was irritated by it, for sure! Hiding who they are by pretending to have poor health and to basically be timid of everything is not how vampires are “supposed” to be, and I, for one, really hated that. Also, the sparkling… Making them glow like some sort of blessed creature that is meant to be good just didn’t work. Also, I’m sure you know this, but I’ll say it anyway: a lot of people thought it made vampires look REALLY GAY because it was like they were covered in glitter like Ke$ha, and they weren’t happy with every single vampire being portrayed as gay even when the character was obviously meant to be straight. This, I think, had more to do with the actors and actresses than with the actual plot, though.

ANYWAY, Twilight rant, over. I hope that helps you see why exactly people don’t want to see more sparkling vampires.

Also, as to your post above, I think it would be fine for characters to think of vampirism as caused by a virus or to refer to it as one even if they do know the cause, but if you write as if it actually is, then I wouldn’t like it.

Yay! I finally know someone who’s seen the movies. Now I can pick your brain if I have any questions.

Oh dear, I didn’t want to get into this again, about the debate of using the word gay in that fashion. Firstly, I don’t think you’re a bad person, a bigot, homophobic, or anything like that. I do think that there’s a problem with the way the word is being used as an insult and to evoke stereotypes as opposed to just describe people who are gay. (Yes, language does evolve, the word gay itself used to mean happy, but I think we can still stop using it when it’s evolving into offensive meanings.)

Now, I think I understand what you mean, but you shouldn’t repeat that the vampires looked really gay because they had glitter on them. I know you don’t mean it in an offensive manner, that you’re repeating something you heard. To use the word gay in that fashion, is to evoke stereotypes which are harmful and insulting and which encourage discriminaion. Language is a powerful tool, and it’s so common to hear gay used in a derogatory fashion and that hurts those of us who do identify on the GBLTQ spectrum.

And the second part of this is, as you say none of the vampires in Twilight were gay. Even in Interview with the Vampire, which is a story where almost all of the vampires are bisexual, in the movie they tried to pretend the gay content didn’t exist. There is a severe problem of a lack of well portrayed gay characters in movies, unless they’re movies about being gay coupled with Hollywood’s tendency towards straight-washing. If the Vampires had actually been gay I’d have rejoiced. I still wouldn’t have gone to see the movie but I’d have at least been glad that it existed, especially if it were male vampires who weren’t gay just to show how deviant/evil they were. Now the point of this is to just say that saying Twilight is gay, when it’s not gay, is giving them far too much credit for inclusivity. It’s a similar problem I have with subtext, which some people use in their movies so they can skip actually being inclusive.

Anyway just trying to explain. Please don’t take offence, it’s more a problem in general, that you’ve triggered me to discuss, than anything that’s meant directed at you.

What’s tricky about that question is that everyone has its own idea of what a vampire is and what it should be, as you can see on this very thread ;).

I know for example that, to me, the way they are portrayed in the rpg Vampire: The Masquerade fits my own vision of vampires, and probably helped shape it too to be completely honest.
Vampires are creatures of the night, fighting to retain their humanity against the Beast. They are as powerful as they are flawed. They are not heroes, or invincible. While their biggest enemy may be themselves, with their own treacherous politics, the depravity of their own kind, and bloody infightings that plagues them, their survival depend on staying hidden, on the Masquerade.
It doesn’t have to be exactly like they are described in the rpg, but if you rip them off their savage nature, of their weaknesses, I admit I’ll have a hard with it, because that’s all of this, the struggle against their own bestiality, that compels me about vampires. Otherwise they’re just humans with super powers.

But, that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t write about vampires as you feel they should be, sparkling, able to walk in daylight, and with no big issue on not feeding on humans, don’t let me stop you. After all, as I said at the beginning everyone as different tastes and considering how much Twilight was a hit, I think a lot of people would enjoy it regardless.

Twilight was extremely popular with the teen/tween girl demographic, and also with young mothers and young emo males. In fact a lot of young gals became so obsessed with the films that they saw the films over and over and over again with anyone they could drag along to keep them company. It wasn’t anywhere near as popular with women over 30 or with men who don’t define themselves as ‘emo’. When you think about it, it’s just another forbidden teen-age romance between a nice girl and a bad boy except the bad boy heart-throb is a hot, 100 year old paedefile vampire. :wink:

NO SPARKLING. Instant turn off. Instead if a vampire is in direct sunlight, have them weakened a bit weakened.

Personally I like the classic vampire no sun no holy water and no stake through the heart non of this sparkle nonsense plus they are supposed to be predators why would a predator have such a defect but for the story I think it would be cool if you can pick one of these weakness and be naturally resistant to it then I like the version of creation from underworld where daddy survives a horrible plauge and becomes immortal but his children’s immortality comes with some defects like needing to drink blood

Thanks for the comments, all! The brainstorming and questions are definitely helpful - I often find myself interrogating the basic premise of a setting/character/plot to help develop it further, and hearing feedback in this manner helps in a similar way. :slight_smile:

The question of feeding is especially interesting to me because I’m especially concerned with the concept of modern vampires as a “superior” version of humans and their hierarchical tendencies both within and outside their own ranks. I kicked around the idea of the “feeding on werewolf make you strong like ox!!!” possibly being placebo - that the superiority that one individual might wield over another based on their diet, lifestyle choices, etc amounts to little more than a fantasy grounded in certain ideas of what makes a “real” vampire. And one who doesn’t hunt humans might be doing it for practical purposes (it’s less conspicuous) and be branded a coward and weakling, while maneaters might be viewed as thuggish but viable threats, and those who willingly and regularly go toe-to-toe with other supernatural creatures as some scary motherfuckers, whether or not there’s a physiologically significant benefit to drinking different kinds of blood. But even if there were, I guess it’s because I’m drawn to the Fantastic Racism side of things, tying in again to the theme of “forbidden” relations - how would a member of such a group reconcile their internalized belief of superiority with feelings of More Than Apathy towards a supposedly “inferior” creature? Particularly an “apex predator” vampire with a human? (Especially if a human still manages to get the best of them somehow! There might be interesting possibilities there.)

And yeah, animals aren’t “vegetarian”, but putting it in scarequotes is useful shorthand for the idea people are trying to get across. :stuck_out_tongue: In Twilight’s case, the “vegetarian” label was probably meant to carry connotations of weakling, bleeding hearts, etc, even though many vampires who abstained from human blood did it more as an ego/personal morality thing than out of sympathy and goodwill to humans, whom they considered below them.

Speaking of, I shouldn’t be too surprised how immediately this swerved into a Twilight discussion, so I might as well throw in my two cents. I think its popular Totally Not a Fanfic successor 50 Shades is seeing a similar reception these days, which is the reaction from readers outside its core demographics or target audience (“people with good taste” one might say, haha) to a perceived decline in literature… as well as the integrity of a completely fictional species. The truth of the matter is that stories like Twilight and 50 Shades have always existed, albeit not so visibly; the former’s popularity, however, left a significant impact on the fantasy/YA market that endures to this day. For better or worse, elements of Twilight have been absorbed into the larger “vampire mythos” that make up the modern supernatural genre as we know it, though much of Twilight was borrowed by previous contemporary works. It’s an inevitability of folklore that certain concepts will change over time to reflect modern sensibilities.

I even have a good example of that in this very thread. Take the comment from @Apillis for instance: “just saying ‘sparkling vampires’ makes them sound more like flowery fae than the literal devil-spawn that they are meant to be.” Funny that fairies themselves were once believed to be demonic in certain cultures, often malicious, “troll”-like in appearance with a penchant for kidnapping. The hobgoblin experienced the opposite evolution - it went from a friendly household spirit to Tolkein’s huge, deadly uber-goblins. As people have already pointed out in this thread, vampires have undergone many such transformations over the years, from a metaphor utterly FRAUGHT with sexual overtones to… well, maybe they haven’t changed much, in that regard. :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m admittedly mystified that some people seem to zeroing in on sparkling vampires as much as they are, but I’ll chime in anyway. There’s nothing inherently degrading about having qualities that react to environmental lighting - we don’t view the glint of, say, a dragon’s scales, or a knight’s armor, or the point of the sword as a detractor from their potential to intimidate.

Which brings me to another point. @Galador I’d love to hear an explanation on what’s particularly “gay” about “sparkling” in and of itself. It’s gay in the same sense that colors, festivals, decoration, etc can be gay (bright, loud, cheery) but there’s nothing that inherently ties it to someone’s sexuality. And if there were legitimately gay vampire characters… so what? A character can be straight and effeminate (and sparkly!) without it detracting from them as a character. A character can be gay and menacing. A character can be x and y, because if we constrain ourselves to a certain mold of what is “acceptable” to a straight, white, cisgender male audience within a given age bracket, then we’re closing ourselves off to an incredible range of possibilities of who we can use to tell a story. Like I said in the OP, I’ve been concerning myself much more with the character side of things, and how it plays off their “condition” (species, race, affliction, whatever you’d like to call it). Being badass doesn’t have to be synonymous with a certain idea of masculine.

Not calling you a homophobe whatsoever, by the way, but I would love to see a homophobic vampire character cursed with perma-glitter, which would be hilarious if done well (and not played straight as a “LOL GAYS” joke).

I’m also uncomfortable with the underlying implication from some posts that anything that appeals to a young female audience is inherently inferior. In the larger scheme of things, these stories are mostly in the minority when you compare those that are targeted specifically to a male demographic (though they may amass a large female audience regardless). That being said, I’m aiming for something a little more generalized and darker than YA - while I did actually enjoy Twilight despite a lot of its problematic points, there was groundwork it laid that it was unwilling to explore, likely due to Meyer’s general puritanism.

TL;DR Though I’m really interested in logistics discussion too, unfortunate implications of some remarks. I’ll probably chime in later with more detail of what I had in mind after my errands, but thanks again for all the thoughts! :slight_smile: