The Wayhaven Chronicles General Discussion (SPOILER FREE FOR BOOK THREE!)

Yeah, none of my MCs would ever say this, even in the heat of the moment if they’re angry. It’s just… horrible!

At worst, my M-mancer would say derogatory things about herself, thinking M would be happier without her (possibly even deep romance, with no established relationship yet). The others wouldn’t even go that far.


You wuss…

I would. Cause its fun to read the reactions lol

But yeah, I would feel guilty like hell. And must repent!

Build a statue for Ava


Not a wuss. Saying shit like that is childish and intentionally hurtful toward someone you (supposedly) love. I grew up with an extended family who constantly told everyone they hated them, never wanted to speak to them again, “you’re dead to me”, blah blah blah, only to come back a few months (or a year or more) later wanting to make up. I learned never to say shit like that unless you mean it. So I’ve never said it.

That’s what combing the code is for. Which I would totally do.


yeah, but not everyone can ‘Comb the code’ O nerd Lady :joy:

Some of us has to suffer using the reply and try to figure out whats right and whats not :stuck_out_tongue:


So I replayed book 2 recently and allowed myself to do some CaLCuLaTiOnS regarding the walk through the forest early on. In a somewhat salty inspiration prompted by vampires barely surviving a fight with simpleton rednecks, I attempted to figure out how heavy a tree A moves is.

Adding to that, how vampires move so fast the human eye can’t catch up, I can’t make myself believe they would lose in the sewers.

On another note, does MC even know their father’s name or how he looks for that matter? Everyone says “Rook”, and Rebecca never talks about him or even thinks about telling MC anything. But then she tells MC they have their father’s eyes, which is something they should already know, right? Unless they don’t know at all how he looks.


Everyone calls the father “Rook” because Sera wanted to leave his name for headcanons so that people could imagine a name of any origin and from any language. Although it would probably be better to let us input his name.

I’m sure the MC knows how their father looks like and have seen his photos. I think Rebecca brought up his eyes because she was caught up in the moment and started reminiscing about Rook and thus randomly mentioned how similar his eyes are to MC’s.


Okay, alright, seeing the discussin in the tropes topic I just can’t stay silent anymore, I need some sense to be made.
I don’t understand the Rebecca hate. I do not! Have you never seen families with single mothers? A third of total families in my country are such, so I’ve seen a fair share of them. My extended family members, my friends, my mom’s friends and colligues and so on. First of all, they all work A LOT. If they have a 8/5 job it’s usually not the only job they have. Or they have jobs with longer or not fixed working hours, so they can provide well, because they usually are the only source of income (alimonies are usually pitiful or not paid at all). It’s kinda even better if the father is dead, then you can have a pension from the state. Sometimes mothers work a lot and it’s still not enought and they also have to shoulder all the housework, so they don’t spend much time with their children, unless the children shoulder the housework themselves.
Oh, and what are we gonna do about parents (it’s usually fathers tho) who are sea captains or work in the Far North, so they aren’t at home for months and months in order to provide for their families. They should be prohibited from being beloved patriarchs, right? Ooooh, and I really should hate my father, who literally spent half of my life away from home working in another city (week there and week at home) so that soup made from bones wasn’t a bloody luxury for his daughter. It’s not like we could spend a lot of quality time when he was home, that never happened.
No, no, I get it. A woman should throw away any of her ambitions and dreams if she had a baby crawl out of her. It doesn’t matter if it was her partner who was more domestic, it doesn’t matter if being the single breadwinner is bloody hard and stressful, Rebecca should have left the Agency and find job at the neares Target or whatever so she could cook dinners every day from discounted goods or something, I don’t know what do you want from her, guys. Like tell me, what she should have done to be a good mother in your eyes?
Being absent and being neglectful are two very different things, you know.


Dunno, not baby Unit Bravo like they were her own children? Be honest with her own child and not risk their life by her own lack of desire to tell them important information? Try to not obstruct MC’s career?

I don’t hate Rebecca because she’s a single mother who was absent, I hate her because of the things she does in game. Her constant absence in MC’s life and Unit Bravo remembering her far more fondly than her own child just act as straws that break the camel’s spine.


@vera Exactly. It’s not about her being a single working mom… it’s about how she treats her adult offspring like a two-year-old after being absent for their entire life. It’s made clear that Rebecca wasn’t overly affectionate or involved much in her kid’s life growing up. She’s not a very warm person, to begin with, and given that she was all the MC had growing up, certain personality types would not do well in that environment. Therefore, they would now be distant with her.

But, despite the distance between them (the reasons for which Rebecca herself seems to understand), she expects the MC to just welcome her into their life with no question because “now you know the truth!” It doesn’t work that way for a lot of people. You can’t just lie to someone their entire life, be lukewarm with them, and never really be there for them, then expect them to trust you because you were finally honest with them. Throw in the fact that she still isn’t honest with them about the father and is trickling information to them, and there’s really no reason a detective who wasn’t previously close to her would suddenly decide she walks on water (which is how the narration, UB, and everyone else in the series seems to act).

So, again, it isn’t about her being a working mom. My dad traveled three weeks out of every month when I was growing up, but he and I were still very close because he was there when I needed him and, when he was in town, we spent a lot of time together doing all kinds of stuff (usually with my mom complaining that he shouldn’t treat me like a boy, lol).

That is not how the relationship with Rebecca is presented in the text, and she’s just… cold… most of the time. Bouncing between cold and “I’ll do anything to protect you!” gives me (the reader) whiplash and comes off to two of my MCs as a load of bullshit and totally unbelievable. She also expects the MC to act like a child, allowing Rebecca to take over their “safety” or whatever, and is completely disrespectful to the MC in front of UB, with whom the MC is trying to build a working relationship.

Anyway, tl; dr: it isn’t about Rebecca being a working mom. It’s about Rebecca, both her attitude and her actions. That’s why I don’t like her as a reader, and why two of my MCs literally can’t stand to be in the same room with her. Unless she starts treating them more like the competent and skilled adults that they are, instead of dimwitted children who can’t tie their own shoes, they will never be able to tolerate her.


I’m also quite angry about her babying Unit Bravo. First you treat them gentler than a feather, then they grow up into people who utterly lack any respect for anyone who isn’t a part of their unit and don’t know what subordination even is. I’m sure that the utterly horrible behaviour Bravos keep showing is a result of Rebecca’s brand of care towards them. Nate just was able to learn basic etiquette.


About UB: in what world do you not want the apex predators of human kind to eat from your palm and wiggle their tail when you praise them? It’s kinda obvious that Rebecca prefers to wear her velvet gloves, so it’s perfectly within her nature. Plus, I dunno, at my working place mothering your underlings is such a normal practice, I can’t imagine not doing that, so. Plus, I mean, maybe it’s Rebecca missing the MC and just projecting, not such a bad thing then?

And I don’t really know about hindering the career. The only thing she ever says is that she’s worried and wants the MC to be safe. It’s obious that Rook’s death was a great blow for her. My father is ill, so every time my mother calls outside of usual hours, I feel dread. But I bet Rebecca feels that every bloody time her phone rings. Yeah, no, what a terrible behaviour.


Some of that is due to their basic personalities. A is a follower, and is completely subordinate to Rebecca and the Agency, to the point where I’m not sure A can think for themselves at all. M is an asshole, but from what Sera has said in tumblr asks, M had always been a prickly asshole, so that’s nothing new. Still, M seems perfectly fine with obeying the Agency, A, and Rebecca–but, with M, it’s mainly because they don’t really give a shit.

It’s really the same with F–F has little in the way of manners, kind of like a child who was never taught that there are simply some things you don’t say to people (like, “your house is too dark/dirty/bright/etc!” or loudly announcing when someone is showing signs of affection for someone else).

The one I can’t figure out is N. Was N always so soft and nice? Or is that partly a shield to keep control of themselves? N could really turn out to be interesting if that’s the case.

I think N had basic etiquette down already, just like the other three are who were they always were personality-wise. And I don’t think Rebecca cares how they behave or who likes them as long as they do their jobs. Same for the Agency.

I’m sorry to hear that. I went through the same thing in 2015, so I completely understand how you feel. If you ever need to talk, PM me.

As for Rebecca, it’s been 20+ years since she lost Rook. I don’t fault her for still being hurt over it. I do fault her for distancing herself from her kid because it hurt to much to see the reminder of what she lost. It’s not the MC’s fault (as far as we know). But even Sera said that’s partly why she distanced herself, and that she had no clue how to be a mother. I got the impression she didn’t bother trying much, either.


Thank you for your kind words, it means a lot.

Okay, that’s an argument I can get behind.
But maybe it’s just my own experience, but in my world when a woman who has difficulties being a somewhat close mother is usually a woman who was pressed into it. I know that Rook is supposed to be so good and everything, but I do see ears of reproductive abuse showing from this bush.
But I’ll reiterate, Rebecca is a traumatized single breadwinner of the family who is working god know what kind of hours in the Agency, which, upperently sucks at providing mental health care for their subordinates (let’s not help M, let’s just erase it, that’s definetly not going to backfire at all!). Too much of the system pressure for her to handle, so I can’t really hate her for it, only feel sad. And angry because we are not really allowed to have norlmal relationship with our mother, yeah.


I’ve gotten that impression with Rebecca, too. I don’t think she actually wanted to be a mom–but she had the MC because Rook wanted it, and it seems Rook was the one to do all the caretaking for the MC before he was killed. So I think she was neither equipped to care for, nor did she really want, the MC.

Don’t get me started about that. Also, throw in the whole “let’s give him crystals to wear to keep those memories locked away and keep him stable!” because it’s not like something could ever happen to those, right?

I kind of hope, but doubt, that we’ll be able to build a functional relationship with her. The two MCs that hate her could build a good relationship with her under the right circumstances, but it will require Rebecca not being so intrusive with her care (which seems to be leftover trauma from losing Rook and realizing that the MC is the only thing she has left of him), her being consistently honest with the MC and answering questions or pointing them to someone who can answer questions about the dad, and–possibly most importantly–treating the MC as an equal, or at least a real member of the team, instead of constantly acting like the MC is UB’s charge that needs to be kept under control and surveillance 24/7.


I don’t at all hate Rebecca (and some of the asks on tumblr actually clarified that she was less absent than I previously thought based just on what’s told in the books), but I will admit to always playing MCs who have a combative relationship with her.
Ultimately, I live for the drama and a conflicted mother-daughter relationship just comes across as more interesting to me than a smooth-sailing one. Plus, while I, as a player, can understand Rebecca’s behavior and choices, I think it’s plausible that the MC wouldn’t (not immediately, at least). We’re only human and emotions can often run high, especially when it comes to family.


Agency needs money to function, that implies sponsors or governmental support. DMB and holding cells for all manner of beings don’t really come out of thin air and they need funds to function. Since supernaturals can become rogues and do become rogues, I’m sure there is at least some level of outside pressure to force agents to, well, behave.

It’s a weird thing, too. Agency has all this stuff, all these resources, yet they don’t really seem interested in ensuring people actually want to sponsor them, they don’t really show themselves committed to the whole spiel of protecting the world from supernatural. They don’t train their agents to function among humans in case of Bravos, Trappers are a can of worms I genuinely don’t want to open. It’s so weird. Why are you this big and successful and don’t do damn to ensure your stellar reputation holds?


Gods, I wish SOMEBODY would do their jobs. Alas.

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Well, looks like we won’t get “deep romance” M in b3…

Not that I expected differently. B5 can’t get here soon enough–even if it’s nothing but a big ol’ ball of pain, at least there should be an actual M romance (probably not relationship, though) by the end of it.


There is one moment that makes me hopeful that was in the demo that, obviously I won’t talk about here because it’s spoilery for book three, and well… looks at the title of this discussion thread But yeah, I’m hoping by Mishka saying the “future of the series” that she also meant book three since it’s technically not out yet. I don’t think there will be a relationship in book three, but I think there will definitely be actual relationship elements instead of just flirting and sex and the occasional one line to say M cares about you.


Hopefully, you’re right. I’m not counting on it, given how she keeps hammering that it will take so long to get there with M. I figure there will be one or two moments per book where we get to see M feels more than simple lust (even if it isn’t made obvious to the MC), kind of like we have thus far. Well, like we had with b2… there was squat in b1, lol.

As for a relationship, from what she’s said, it doesn’t appear it will ever be an official thing with M, anyway. It’ll just kinda happen along the way, then, at some point, M will be like, “Oh, that’s what this is… huh…” and things will keep going as they are. But that isn’t for a very long time, since “deep romance” comes before a relationship. Likely sometime in b6.

I do wonder what you’re talking about from the demo, though. There was a cute moment toward the end of the demo, but that was just M acting on instinct, as they are prone to do. There was no intent with it and, for once, they didn’t stop themselves from doing it.