The War for the West [Releasing Nov 14]

[Zen1]

Wow love the ending

[Bathala]

Does it also work even if my MC doesn’t have a wife?

[Eric_knight]

I am not sure… because i didn’t try

you could give it a try and see whether Janneth will visit you …

[Bathala]

She must! For the sake of my ${land_name}!

Am I the only one having a error slot?
Edit: never mind that

[Hearts]

@Bathala

Does it also work even if my MC doesn’t have a wife?

@Eric_knight

whether Janneth will visit you

It worked for me.
And i think my mc proposed to her at the end.
And they did.
And thats it.

If you want details go read.

Also @MahatmaDagon

Summary

Regarding the profecy. The pale tree of deceit bit. Is it aboit jenneth?

Also what char is your picture. Every time i see it i think of harry poter. For some reason.
Like
“Ah, harrypoter posted something…”

[MahatmaDagon]

@TeamCorvid

More about undead spouses!

All the taken-hostage-and-killed spouses definitely have this problem, not just Hereya. However, the game does seem to treat them as dead - I had my male MC be able to have a bastard, and the choices that pop up are legitimize the kid, and choose celibacy, not ‘stay faithful to wife’. If the spouse is dead, there’s fittingly no mention of them before the Summit either, just the one legitimate but buggy child kissing me goodbye.

So I guess the code is working as it should except for the legitimate heir scene that should not be shown popping up?

Thank you! I’ll be testing this stuff today to make sure, but I’m pretty confident you narrowed it down. (and made the job a lot easier for me )

@sljzz

Thanks for the long reply!

Nah, thank YOU for the detailed feedback. It helps a lot to have someone with a sharp grasp on the mechanics. Math and coding were never my strong suit, and people like you, @Norilinde and @castellan are helping me a lot in balancing those elements of the game.

@sljzz

If we assume perfect rolls on everything (max starting population 160k, max rolls on each recruitment): We get 1596 starting troops, and each recruitment gives us (159600 * 0.0015/2) + 28 = 148 people.
We can do 10 full recruits, which is 1480 people. The next 5 times the number is reduced to 40%, which gives us 148 * 0.4 * 5 = 296 people. The next 5 times the number is reduced to 20%, (plus you get +1 unrest each time), which gives you 148 people. The total is 1480+296+148 = 1919 people.

At the eve of battle, we have 3515 troops total. This is assuming perfect luck and maximum recruitment, and also discounting the random population fluctuation event and all other possible losses.
The civilian recruitment gives us another 1596, which brings the total up to 5111. Which is good enough to match Sielcner+mercs, but not really an advantage.

I have to admit that I wouldn’t know the exact numbers/average if you hadn’t pointed them out here.

@sljzz

I don’t really want to count the mercs as our troops. They will only stay on our side if (1) we promise to marry Ullus or (2) at the end of the battle we have more than 1000 more troops than the enemy side, both of which are no small thing. No amount of Social can keep them with us.

Makes sense. I was misremembering stuff.

@sljzz

Makes sense, but that sets the warnedDullis flag instead, which isn’t checked.

Oh… So the game isn’t making a check for “dullisIsComing” if “warnedDullis” is true?

@sljzz

It actually leads back to [label whatnow], which can branch in several directions; plus, to reach HeldCharge we need to pass a additional check.

You’re right, I didn’t notice yesterday that there are several checks of “killedRear” depending on what the player decides to do.

So, I think that what happens is that the player needs to do things in a certain order(and have more than 400 troops left) in order to proceed to the next scene with Noyedas having something between 200~300 less troops.

But if we go to afterRear, then the enemy doesn’t lose any troops.

That was your initial report, right? (Just to make sure I finally got it)

@sljzz

Or am I just making more work for you (hides)

@sljzz

I found it deeply ironic when I got the achievement.

But until that specific point, was there anything you wanted to do as a player that the game didn’t allow you to? Like, just leave the Summit, or perhaps refuse to participate on it?

Because I’m up for giving this kind of choices, I don’t want to railroad stuff unnecessarily.

@Norilinde

@MahatmaDagon I went through the source code and I can’t find a path to without 60+ social. Or is there another text file with choices for it? I suggest that there should be a way with high Knowledge/Lore to convince similar to the MC’s Choice to say:

@Norilinde

@MahatmaDagon I went through the source code and I can’t find a path to without 60+ social. Or is there another text file with choices for it? I suggest that there should be a way with high Knowledge/Lore to convince similar to the MC’s Choice to say:

I found the option:

*if (unopposed) #“You said it yourself. There is no one else to oppose me now.”
*goto jennethKiss

But it is currently only available to the female MC, when you say that you want her to be your Queen.

The other option, for the Male MC, was removed from the .txt along with an exchange where she reveals to be your half-sister. I’m likely to reinsert it eventually.

@Norilinde

Regarding how many people the MC’s province has and how big or small the MC’s army can get:

God damn it, this is amazing. I’m really impressed.

@Norilinde

Through no fault of the player’s choices, pure bad luck leaves the MC with around 2800 troops (not considering ), while pure good luck leaves the MC with around 6000 troops (not counting mercenaries) to face Sielcner. So the maximum and minimum size of the MC’s army differ by around a factor of 2 just because of sheer luck.

Well, that might be… a bit too much.

Any suggestions on how to better balance it?

@Norilinde

@MahatmaDagon Is peasantsRecruiter.txt used for anything?

No, I think it was a “proof of concept” I did in the early days.

@Norilinde

@MahatmaDagon I realize there is the cheat menu, but you might want to consider offering a Choice of difficulty settings. Normal difficulty could leave things to chance like things are now. Hard difficulty would minimize all population bonuses, all recruiting bonuses, and the time until the Sielcner invasion. Easy difficulty would maximize those things instead.

I can see that working efficiently, but I was thinking of tackling the particular problem of balancing army sizes by adding a few options that would reduce the size of Noyedas army by the time of the battle. if you discover his intentions beforehand, you could them do some stuff to sabotage him.

Someone(could have been you) had also suggested a difficulty setting that would be associated it with the number of days it would take for the Sielcner Invasion to happen, but I eventually concluded that it might cause some problems. I think the following reasoning applies to both:

1. If I make a difficulty setting and I just relate it to population and recruitment numbers, it would just make SOME of the game easier, because there would still be many ways to die/lose the game that are unrelated to this.

2. If I delay the invasion too much(as it sometimes happens already), I can end up giving the player too much “non content” time. Months where nothing happens and the only way to pass time is by skipping it. I don’t think that’s a very fun “mechanic” for the player.

So I think the easier way would be to not have a difficulty setting(I’m not that conceptually inclined to have it and it would be hard to balance all the possible bad outcomes), and just give more ways for the player to diminish Noyedas.

I am, of course, accepting suggestions regarding this as well. I was thinking about things like sabotage, perhaps some military maneuver or preemptive strike… things like:

• Spreading rumors of heresy about Lord Noyedas/the Warmonk, which would reduce a bit the number of rivermen troops because those who are faithful to the Two might be dissuaded from joining.

• Sabotaging their water supply/food somehow.

• Making the alchemical compound kill more of them if you order the alchemists to produce it.

• The Abyssal Spawn, if let alive, will kill some of their troops(someone suggested it, I don’t think I implemented it yet, but it is in my annotations)

@Norilinde

I do not think that it needs to be there at all but you might want to get a second or third opinion on that one. I think it could be either selection of a or selecting a . I think it should be which instead of who unless it was deliberate to treat futures like people.

You correct, I changed it to:

“There are more possible paths than what can be predicted by prophecy. You are deluding yourselves into thinking you have some degree of control over fate. By selecting a small pool of futures and then going to such great lengths to assure that one of them becomes reality, you are preventing countless others from happening, even those which might be better, just because they weren’t predicted.” (Knowledge)

Thanks again for all the help!

@sljzz

(Why is population change determined by random chance anyway? This could be the perfect place to check for unrest.)

I was going to put this somewhere else, but I was in need of Hold Court events If the numbers are too wild I can reduce the variance, but I don’t know about considering unrest here. I mean, what would the short term consequences of a low unrest represent here? That there are more peasants because they have a good quality of life? I don’t know if the impact would be meaningful given that the number can vary and it only accounts for a short amount of time(a few months) of your rule. Perhaps I’m missing something.

@Bathala

Does it also work even if my MC doesn’t have a wife?

I think it does, because she comes to visit you about killing Noyedas instead. If it isn’t working like that, I think it should.

@Hearts

Regarding the profecy. The pale tree of deceit bit. Is it aboit jenneth?

It was about the Genderless(they are described as pale, and they have deceived the entire world). But I think I need to change a few things about the prophecy, or at least add some new ones(I had some written but lost them)

@Hearts

Also what char is your picture. Every time i see it i think of harry poter. For some reason.

It’s a pixelated version of this photo from around six years ago.

[Bathala]

Spymaster didn’t appear in my tent during the backdooring of the Drowning Sword. But I did marry her. So did I do something wrong?

[TeamCorvid]

Jenneth only sneaks in your tent during the last war. You’ll need to side with Noyedas.

[Bathala]

Ah, I see. I thank thee for the info of Jenneth’s Bangability.

[Marcos_Brites]

One thing that seems strange to me is that if you go to the summit with your lover, they do not talk about it or take advantage of the trip could you add any comments?

@MahatmaDagon

I am, of course, accepting suggestions regarding this as well. I was thinking about things like sabotage

You could place traps on the road, a preemptive strike with part of your army and leaving some in case the MC fails or MC leads a group of instigators for lightning attacks, sabotage (with Jannet’s help) or build a small defense (sanjas so that the charges fail and hinder the cavalry) in the open field for when the war begins

@MahatmaDagon

Making the alchemical compound kill more of them if you order the alchemists to produce it.

I think the MC clarified that this was a bad idea because the disease had no cure and could infect the MC troops or refer to create their own curable compound?

@MahatmaDagon

The Abyssal Spawn, if let alive, will kill some of their troops

This would not kill our troops too? And to everyone who is in the woods?

[alphasquid]

@MahatmaDagon Shouldn’t this say Archpriest?

This should say melee combat.

[Bathala]

Whenever I choose “Hold court,” it always says “Nothing happens today,” every. damn. time.

Is this a bug or is it because of my internet connection?

[Marcos_Brites]

It means that you do not have any events left (there are only 40/50)

[HGoltara]

Umm, how do I marry Walvanar and that boglan girl?

[Marcos_Brites]

Tenés que estar soltero y conocerlas o a su familiar más cercano

@HGoltara

Walvanar

Your brother comes to your land and you negotiate with him and talk about his sisters

@HGoltara

boglan girl

You meet her at a party and her father offers her so to speak … I think it sounded very bad

And then choose who you marry

[sljzz]

@MahatmaDagon

Oh… So the game isn’t making a check for “dullisIsComing” if “warnedDullis” is true?

No, Dullisiscoming is always checked. The problem is that warning Dullis with a letter doesn’t give you Dullisiscoming, only warnedDullis.

@MahatmaDagon

But if we go to afterRear, then the enemy doesn’t lose any troops.

There’s more than one place we could end up (where Noyeda doesn’t lose troops), but that’s the spirit of it.

@MahatmaDagon

But until that specific point, was there anything you wanted to do as a player that the game didn’t allow you to? Like, just leave the Summit, or perhaps refuse to participate on it?

Not me; my MC. And if ‘nothing you do can change your fate’ is the feeling you’re going for, then congrats, you did instill it.

There is one minor thing. Could there be a way to get the fallen star some other way than through open warfare? Maybe using high Knowledge to calculate the trajectory so that we can get there first, or paying Jen to steal a piece of it? I feel extremely uncomfortable getting people killed over what is essentially a curiosity, but the tribune questline (which is fascinating, by the way) is locked behind it.

@MahatmaDagon

check for unrest.)

I was going to put this somewhere else, but I was in need of Hold Court events If the numbers are too wild I can reduce the variance, but I don’t know about considering unrest here. I mean, what would the short term consequences of a low unrest represent here? That there are more peasants because they have a good quality of life? I don’t know if the impact would be meaningful given that the number can vary and it only accounts for a short amount of time(a few months) of your rule. Perhaps I’m missing something.

In the same vein, what does the randomizer represent? That everyone flipped a coin to decide whether they were going to come or go?
Since we aren’t having a pandemic (what happened to the Gravemaker plotline?), unrest is the most applicable stat in the current game that would cause massive population change. A few months is not enough to natrually grow a population by 30%, so they have to had migrated here from neighboring provinces. Our reputation as a ruler would be a major factor in deciding whether they want to come / leave, and unrest is basically an inverted form of reputation.

If you want to make it more meaningful you could add places that increase and decrease it, or change the variable by more than 1 depending on the weight of the choice, and set the checks at event 40 farther apart, so that only consistent behavior will cause population change. Does choicescript allow you to test for negative values?
You could also fix it so that event 40 is always the Nth event to fire, or will always fire if you hold court within a certain range of dates, so that we have time to show what kind of ruler we are.

Also, and I point this out with extreme reluctance, did you know that the current Lord Noyedas is very patient? When he sends word that he wants to talk or else; we can leave him hanging indefinitely and train up all our militia into knights (not enough for the witchery ending, alas).

Regarding events: there are a couple events that are just “you do nothing but socialize” “Social +1”. Could those be made repeatable? That would also help with the problem that there are too few chances to boost Social.

[N1GHTMAR3]

40 iirc.

[Pedro_Ferreira]

Is the spymaster a RO?

[loyallyroyal]

I kind of think the Jenneth checks of 60+ for social is a little high, it is really hard to raise the social stat compared to the others.

[anon4518890]

damm, i did not expect that outcome in the lords Summit at all , the only thing i miss in this game is that i will have liked a bit more wars and not only dullac (but i guess that will be in the 2 book, so all is good)