The Petal Hides the Thorns

Hosted Games Works In Progress
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@Turtler

I really appreciate it. You’ve been very helpful. I value open discussion, even if it’s dissident. It’s much better than a chorus of voices giving the same opinions. Concepts grow when they’re discussed. You did sort of vocalize the misgivings I had about my own concept, so that’s why I was easily willing to give it up. I’ve already considered that maybe it’s a bad idea, lol. But, anyway, moving on, like you said.

I like the idea of the inclusion of the Nationalist Chinese. If nothing else they can add flavor or merit a mention in the game.

I was thinking of the game starting in the year 1953. It would be at the beginning of McCarthyism, and during the year Stalin died, I believe, and Kruschev came to power. Resident spies like the MC were becoming rare, the last spy being betrayed by his partner in 1956 or 1957. As the US’s paranoia of spies increased, the number of spies actually decreased.

Also, again, I’m using stand-ins for certain historical figures (not every one, but the ones the MC interacts with) to try to keep me on that fine line.

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@Farside :

Alright, so 1953. The Korean War’s starting to grind down and wind down, the French are still struggling in Indochina against the Viet Minh and the British likewise in Malaysia and Kenya, H-Bomb goes official, Waiting for Godot comes out, Mossadegh and the Shah come to blows over power with the West backing the latter and the Soviets backing the former (and the latter eventually overthrowing the former),and Stalin finally goes to the hell he so justly deserved, paving the way for the Khruschev v. Beria power struggle over the imperial throne.

I think it’s a fitting choice, particularly for the reasons you mention and how “transitional” the year was overall. As a quibble, it’s not true that all the spies got rounded up in '57, particularly since a lot of the spying wasn’t done by the local sympathizers, but by Soviet diplomatic and military staff in the States who were hidden under the umbrella. That’s why most of the effort was directed at the CPUSA.

A couple things to keep in mind. This is well before the big, AAA-list splits in the Eastern Bloc and their offshoots (outside of Tito-Stalin, and even that was largely patched up by for the time being), but Stalin’s death would’ve opened up a problem far closer to home. Namely, the battle over who gets to follow as the third Red Tsar, mainly between Khruschev and Beria. Both of whom are the bosses of the MC and his/her compatriots to one level or another. So expect some intra-Soviet bloodbaths even if you’re not using them by those names.

On the other side, though, there’s a reason this was the height of McCarthyism. It’d already started to wear out its’ welcome, particularly with Joe McCarthy himself (who’d get all but castrated and neutered). So you could expect the MC to run into people who are divided about the wisdom of continued hard-line tactics to domestic Communism and the Soviets, and quite likely being able to take advantage of those divisions.

Also, the threat of hot war was still pretty up in the air at the time (being before the Khruschev “thaw” such as it was), and it wasn’t inconcievable that one of the conflicts (particularly Indochina and Korea) could’ve ballooned into a Nuclear-Conventional total war, with all the accompanying lovliness that would have. It’s hard to image if that’d be in the game, why, or if it is, how…
…but not much better way to say “Oops, Game Over Man!” ;D.

Beyond that, what parts of the MC do you think will be customizable (before the “story proper” starts, that is)?

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@Turtler

Thank you so much. I thought that spies had been rounded up by 1957, so that’s good clarification. This will actually help direct some of the research I’m doing. I haven’t done much yet (it’s still a distant future project, but I’ve done some snooping around on the period). I’m curious as to what books you find helpful to learning about this period.

The MC’s country, name and appearance are planned to be customizable.

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@Farside :

Right, that’s what I figured. That in mind, how many options were you planning for those areas, apiece? (Besides the name of course…).

Also, since I notice you didn’t include the age, I’m guessing you have a firm idea as to a preset age. So, let’s hear it.

As for that, it’s insanely difficult to track down the number of spies the Soviets had, in particular since the USSR’s foreign intelligence serves are amongst the finest and most extensive history has ever seen, particularly in the modern era. If I had to wager a guess, the double betrayal you’re talking about in 1957 marked the death blow of the old Soviet spy networks (dating back to '17 and especially the '20’s-'30’s) that the USSR had set up in the US using American citizens. They did rebound crazy-fast though, but for a good couple of years they basically had to start from scratch since only their men and personnel protected by diplomatic immunity were really spared.

As for what books…toughie, and I’d have to think about it.

I feel the urge to vomit just suggesting this, but Ellen Shrecker’s supposedly the leading authority on McCarthyism in academia. Which is deeply unfortunate since- in my opinion- she’s a classical Useful Idjiot from what I can see (and I’ve had to read one of her books for College…oyyyyoy OYY!).

However, my personal misgivings aside, she might be something of a Useful Idiot but she is still useful. In particular, she’s a valuable source on seeing the kinds of things and dubious undertakings that the US and various other anti-communist organizations did on the home front and the damage to civil liberties that ensued. And the sources she cites are valuable on their own without her “input.” And on a more unintended note, I think some of her rhetorical knots might help get you in the mindset for the main character. Her fact checking isn’t always the greatest, but I think some of it would be a massive help in writing from the perspective of the true (and naive?) believer of the cause, who just wants to make the world a better place, moral myopia and all (like with a lot of the witch hunters…not so different?).

Granted, that’s in large part because she *is* a stunning example of one of those “true believers in the cause,” but hey…can’t be picky, right?

Just take a lot of what she says- particularly when not backed up by concrete citations or when making values statements- with MASSIVE grains of salt, and keep in mind she’s only really effectively covering McCarthyism and the as a social phenomenon in the US, rather than from the political/diplomatic/military standpoint that is the other side of the coin.

However, again, that’s just me, and my opinion (albeit honest). I think it’s a decent starting point, particularly to offset my own biases (and make no mistake, I am incredibly biased on this subject, so take that as you will) and particularly in making a character that’s serving the Soviet Union for ideology and ideals.

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You’re still gonna gender-lock it. Oh well. I was hoping you’d think about guys that don’t want to HAVE TO play as a girl, but I give up.

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@Farside Being British, I find your American history confusing. But your one of my favorite choice script authors so far and I completely trust you and your writing skills.
And for the battle of the sexes lets face it, biologically men are superior to women, It’s fact. But as a young women myself, I don’t let people go all ‘Superior’ over me just because I’m a girl. But let’s face it, we’re all humans and it shouldn’t really matter.

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@Martin_Brody

I don’t understand. Not all games are required to give you that choice. Look at every video game on the market. You play as a man in almost every one. I don’t have a problem with games like Vendetta that lock you into a gender.

@trollhunterthethird

I actually disagree. Men may tend to be more physically powerful than women, but that only matters in certain situations and doesn’t make women inferior. It is only a tendency, after all. Anyway, thank you for the compliment. :slight_smile:

I’m probably not making this game after giving it some thought. @Turtler’s thoughtful comments are still very appreciated and gave me some things to think about.

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Well that’s just a damn shame.

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I strongly recommend you to continue working on this project despite the fact some people may take it offensive. I am from Slovakia and my country’s history was deeply influenced by the Soviet union. Influenced in a very bad way (1968). I consider Soviet’s system one of the most cruel in the world and I’m far from a communism sympathizer but the setting of your game is an original one and if it don’t turn in propaganda, it may be a great story. In every terrible system there are people who are actually believing in its ideas and thinking that they can change the system from inside (Alexander Dubček - one of the greatest politicians of my country). We have too much ridiculously patriotic stories from the USA, country spending on the military more than anyone else…it would be interesting to look on things from the other side.

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@ViliamFiedler Agreed!

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@ViliamFiedler & @Farsider As a person from a country that was riddled with war, I do not find war references offensive at all, as it is in the past and done with. In my opinion, If you want to handle this sensitively, you as the writer should have a none biased opinion and strictly state that you have no personal grudges. Also an old saying : ‘Only the mad and outright can be successful’

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@trollhunterthethird None biased opinion? Well, tell that to the lost generation or the writers from Russia who wrote tamizdats.

As a writer you don’t have to write things objectively, writing is about expressing your subjective feelings and opinions (if you aren’t writing some encyclopedia of course).

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Not even that, @ViliamFiedler; it is simply the introduction of a perspective, not necessarily the authors own. Indeed, the best authors are those who may convincingly portray a subjective standpoint of another with whom they may well vehemently disagree.

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@ViliamFiedler Sorry I meant no offence

EDIT: (I hope I didn’t offend I don’t mean to be nasty : ( )

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@Drazen you’re right, I haven’t considered everything.

@trollhunterthethird none taken…i was just trying to point out some facts, i wasn’t arguing :slight_smile:

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@ViliamFiedler Although your comment did actually open my eyes quite a bit so thank you!

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@Farside I don’t play video games.

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@Martin_Brody: That wasn’t her point.

And even so, it should be common knowledge that being male is usually the default, and that having a female option, or being gender-locked to female is a breath of fresh air.

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@mistylavenda I suppose you are right, most of the time it is fixed male. Though in my opinion the reason people do fixed male is because some people just can’t stand to play a girl. Though in my opinion,if the story’s good I don’t care whether I’m a man,women,or transgender as long as it captivates my heart.

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Tom rider. Protagonist is clearly a man, final fantasy many of them protagonist only males venetica… Blood cronicles seamus prime is a boy of course
Boys can play like girls but only if you spent millions resident evil the films protagonist ? And underworld?
So boys stop yelling about boys dont cry :stuck_out_tongue:
Sarcasm and humor no trying to fight