yeah but wearing it in the blistering heat and actually having the money to buy something like it is difficult
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Also they aren’t knight; they’re mercenary and afaik mercenaries don’t wear full plate armor as it will also drawn attention to them. I reckon the guards at the gate would immediately refuse them or even consider being attacked if they see someone wearing full plate armor approaching.
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Everyone already raised great points, but I think it’s also important to remember that your initial mission drastically changed to the point where the MC currently is. You were sent to explore an ancient ruin that somehow escaped the attention of the Church. There were some maps there, maps that you were supposed to bring back to the White Company’s headquarters.
The MC, Hadrian, and Alessa did not expect to encounter any combat. You are essentially acting as a glorified errand boy/girl. No one was supposed to be in those ruins, and the roads from the White Company to there had been peaceful. It made no sense to bring an entire set of armor which, by the way, is incredibly expensive. The MC can’t afford one. The Company does, and Tarek wouldn’t allow you to bring one on this mission. Because again, it makes no sense.
So you are traveling light. And you will continue to travel light for the foreseeable future.
I know some people really want to be this invincible fighter that no one can touch, but this game isn’t a power fantasy. You will have a horse that is lame and old and can’t run for extended periods of time. You will struggle with a lack of coin. You will be looked down upon by merchants and nobles and even other peasants. You will meet better fighters, and even engage in combats that you won’t be able to win.
You will fail. And maybe yes, you can build from that. But I won’t have the MC start the game in glorious plate armor and a fantastically made weapon. Riding a massive warhorse as they bend the world to their will. This isn’t that type of game.
You have no title besides the one that your mercenary company gives you. And I know the MC can have internal dialogues where they essentially think they are the most important person to walk the land. But, in those instances, I can assure you its nothing more than delusions of grandeur. Because as the demo stands, you simply are just a lowly mercenary.
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Not asking for a power fantasy just wanted to know why you are not wearing some real armour so thanks for telling me will you be able to get some real armour at some point in the game.
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Holy shit, we’re Geralt of Rivia.
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Oh SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT! Where them Sorceress at?
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Holy hell, this was awesome! I found this topic yesterday and decided to try it out. Spent my entire day on that (well, with some breaks), and I don’t regret anything.
It’s a very strange thing. I usually do very lenghty feedback, but this time… I’m quite amazed and impressed and hyped… and I find myself having more questions than true feedback.
Still, what I CAN say is that I’ve really enjoyed the story and characters. I’m extremely invested in them and eager to know what will happen next, really.
Another thing I loved to no end was… hmm how to put it… How organic the interactions between characters felt. I liked having so many dialogue choices with tons of nuances and seeing consequences to what my character said or did previously and so on. I really felt like talking with real people at many occasions. Simple details, like Alessa acknowledging the fact the MC and Hadrian are attracted to each other and reacting accordingly when you select to say she’s cruel for making fun of Hadrian… that makes wonders for immersion. It would have been so much easier to make a standard answer and for her not to have a different reaction if you pursue a romantic path for Hadrian
I guess my only (minor) gripe is that I often found myself wondering what stats will be affected by certain choices. Not really a problem while the save system is here, but it’ll be a pain in the finished version I guess. Oh well, at least I have a sheet with all my choices recorded, so I’ll be able to easily redo some parts.
Would you humor me and answer some questions? I’m so SO curious!
- I didn’t get the achievement “Friends in High Places” - does it have to do with the siblings, or is it something else? That’s not the only one I’m missing, but since I got the low places one, I’m curious
-
Is it possible to save the man who shows that “siren” thing on the marketplace?
- I have noticed the skills (combat and so on) increase extremely slowly. Or rather, I found only few occasions to get increases. And I was wondering if that was intentional because it feels more realistic, or if I missed dialogue options that grant upgrades. I know I failed some influence checks, so I was wondering. My ending stats were Combat: 31%, Wit: 28%, Influence: 34%, Lore: 22%. Is that decent? Bad? Normal? Is it okay for me to continue with this playthrough (or well, replaying identically), or should I restart and focus more on one single stat? Keep in mind I don’t have any issues with the stat balancing. The game felt extremely natural, including my failures here and there. I’m just being paranoid about playing “well”.
- What is Corruption? I see that counter on my stats screen, but it stayed at 0 for the entirety of the playthrough, so I can’t even try and deduce what it could be based on when it went up or down.
- How much do the dialogue choices affect the relationship with characters? I mean, overall it’s pretty obvious. But for example, is it only possible to successfully romance a character (and get a good ending with them, in the full version) if you did some specific dialogue choices during the game, in addition to affection stat? Or is having enough affection and selecting romance options and so on enough?
- Just HOW LONG is this thing?! I mean, right now, it’s longer than a fair amount of finished interactive books I’ve played. And I feel like there’s still a lot of things to tell before the story reaches it’s ending. So yeah… I guess the proper question is how far are we into the story, or how many chapters will the full game have?
- Is it bad for me to wish Billy was a prince, cursed into a mangy horse body, and only a true love’s kiss would be able to free him from said curse?.. sorry about that… I could’t resist… I just… love this horse…
(I guess this isn’t an ACTUAL question. Or is it?)
Sorry for asking so many thing. This game made me SO invested and genuinely happy I’m being pretty over-excited right now.
Still, thanks for the awesome experience!
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First off, let me say, thank you so much for your words and your review! It was a pleasant surprise to read through, so thank you again for taking the time to leave a comment 
Now onto your questions:
Regarding your (minor) gripe, I truly want to preface this by saying that The Rose is much more a “book” than a “game”. What I mean by this is, that I don’t like gameplay to be heavily stat-based. I don’t like to feel as if I need to pick a “correct” option when I’m playing a game, not am I a fan of collecting points and rigid percentages and locked paths.
I don’t like to play it, and I certainly don’t like to write it.
If there is to be a consequence, let it be for your actions. That means that any major consequence, any major branch will be determined by your choice. A narrative choice. The personality stats are there, mostly, for the player to keep track of how their character is behaving in general. It also allows me to change some flavor text, to make some characters react to you differently. It won’t have a big impact on gameplay, you won’t have personality stat checks. So if you don’t know what choices influence which stat, well then, that’s fine. That’s how it’s supposed to be.
The ones that do matter are the Wit, Combat and Influence stats. Those will have checks, but then again, nothing game-changing. And I do believe the choices that raise them are very clear. The places where you’ll need to play to your strengths are also, I believe, very clear.
So if your MC isn’t very good at Influence, you shouldn’t try to convince a guard not to attack a street urchin. Or if your MC isn’t the best at figuring out hidden patterns, perhaps you might as well watch someone’s body language instead. That type of thing. I’ll try to make the “fails” as organic as the “wins” too. For example, in chapter 2 if you lose to Will because you fail your Combat check, you are saved by either Hadrian or Alessa and have the opportunity of sharing an extra intimidate moment that you won’t have if you can beat Will yourself.
So, long story short, I don’t know if those stats are “normal” or not, because it shouldn’t matter. What matters are the choices you make, that’s the ones that will have weight on the story. There isn’t a single way to play the game “well.”
You gain “Friends in Low Places” when you recruit Beka to be your informant. So if you want to have Friends in High Places instead, perhaps you should try to keep the city guard happy, and not a scrawny little thief.
It’s not possible to save that man. He gambled with destiny and paid the price for greed.
Corruption is tied to death, but not all death corrupts.
If you kill Garrett, the Devil’s Bridge guardian or the man outside the Cathedral, your Corruption will rise.
Some dialogue choices affect the relationship positively, others negatively, most don’t affect it at all. There is a reason I’ve hidden the exact percentages and this ties to the Rose being more of a story than a game. Percentage doesn’t mean even half as much as your choice, and romance is the same.
I won’t lock a romance because the player didn’t flirt that one specific time. I have other checks besides the relationship percentage to see how you are interacting with the characters.
I mean, try killing Garrett while pursuing Hadrian. No matter how high your relationship percentage was, it is now ruined. Hadrian won’t look at you the same. Or try to threaten Alessa is the tombs- you won’t be able to romance her, for one. No matter how high you can rise her relationship afterward.
So again, choices matter in romance. Not percentages.
I’m afraid Billy is but a horse 
Although if he ever was to transform into a human, it wouldn’t be a handsome prince but an old, bent, very grumpy man 
Now excuse me if I take advantage of your comment to make an announcement of sorts. Because you are right, the game is already bigger than some published games and as The Harbor just hit over 100k words, I have to acknowledge that the game grew way past the scope of what I first anticipated.
The Golden Rose will be a series, for one, as it was always meant to be. But as the word count grows, I realize I’ll have to finish the first book in an early part than I had originally planned.
This means that there will be no more new content added to the demo. I will be updating the demo with a polished version sometime next month because there are still some things to fix. Mainly:
- The Will battle in Chapter 2.
- Knowing Beka’s name even when she doesn’t tell you.
- The Weapon variable has to be changed to lower case.
- Change the names of the stable kid and Hadrian’s childhood priest. Boy - Ralph. Priest - Adolf.
- Fix the Theers invitation bug.
- Fix a large number of typos - Email, Dms, Discord.
- Add more save slots.
- Re-word the tavern Hadrian and Alessa same-sex romance denial - make clear it’s a stop romance choice.
- Increase the Loner/Team Player percentage on the first choice.
- Raise the percentage necessary for Hadrian to consider you “brother/sister-in-arms.”
- Add a braid option.
- Fix the Nero stat.
- Fix feeling guilty if you only have the handkerchief - add flirting variable.
- Change the cross of the Witch.
- See the coin spending levels.
- Remove the Origin and the Secondary Weapon Stats
- Add Billy’s carrots to the Inventory
- Add (Unavailable) in front of Gates and Harbor.
- Write a new Final for the demo - links to tumblr and forum.
- Change the Templar’s ship in Chapter 2 - Galleon
But after uploading this polished version of the demo, I will continue to work on the Rose in private until the first book is finished! I’ve noticed that, as I updated, I received less and less feedback. It seems people were just waiting to read the new content and then go away 
which pretty much defeats the point of having a public beta.
Plus, the plot really starts to kick in now and I have to keep some cards hidden up my sleeve 
Thank you, again, for your words. I hope you will enjoy the full game just as much. 
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Oh I’m certain I will! Even more with what you said! It makes me extremely happy that the roleplay aspect is way more important than the stats. This is what I like too, but well, I felt a bit paranoid since I’ve played too many games where I was choosing with my heart, only to get locked into a bad ending because of stats. And it ISN’T pleasant.
I’m so so glad your game/book won’t be like that!
I’m so so hyped about the full thing! Can’t wait to be able to purchase it!
I’ll replay the WIP for fun soon, and I’ll probably replay ANOTHER time once the update is done. I’ll probably play with mostly the same choices, but oh well, I’m having fun that way so yeah.
Haha, no thank you, then!
I thought it may be related to the scene with the twins, but if it’s the actual opposite of the other one then it wouldn’t make sense for my character.
Well then, thanks for your answers, and again, thanks for making this story. It’s one of the best things I’ve read in the last couple of years.
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Excellent to know. Is it alright if I bring up something I haven’t seen discussed here on the forum? I don’t know if anyone on your tumblr said anything about it, but I’ll operate under the idea that it might not have been discussed there, either.
To be up front–I’ve been stewing on this a long while (a couple months), not really sure how to even address it without saying it wrong, or critiquing without trying to offer up a viable solution to remedy it. So here’s the issue that isn’t really an issue so much as a minor eyebrow raiser depending on who you asked.
It concerns *how* we meet one of the Noble siblings at the inn.
When you play as a m!MC, and haven’t flirted with Hadrian, but never flirted with Alessa either–even going as far as openly ignoring her, you still won’t meet Alain even if you were playing a m!MC only interested in male characters for romance.
That same m!MC can’t get the friendship dialogue in the scene with Alessa and the rice pudding, even after turning her down at the inn, though I’m chalking that one up to a bug 
more than anything else, since you can get the friendship version of the scene when you do choose to pursue Hadrian for romance… Not sure what tag was set, or wasn’t working right. It sure made it seem like Alessa was ignoring the fact she was turned down… Unintentional awkward is awkward. 
Mind you, I do not want to change anything leading up to this point by shoehorning in a ‘do you like men, or women?’ type question somewhere in the beginning. That’s both tacky, and would not be a solution that works, since everything so far is actually great! I also don’t want to just put the choice in the player’s hands, either…
Anyway, I haven’t stated why not flirting with Alessa as a f!MC, or not flirting with Hadrian as a m!MC to, er, “forcefully instigate” which noble you meet at the inn when the MC in question doesn’t want an opposite gender character to romance is disconcerting.
All it comes down to–for me personally–is that I don’t want to be that person who led them on just to meet the noble I wanted. Having gotten to know both Hadrian, and Alessa, I readily admit that leading them on to get the target I want is a terrible thing to do. Alessa already has a very hard time trusting others, and Hadrian’s backstory indicates that he’s been burned before. I adore them both, so using them like a stepping stone to get at someone specific for romance? Ouch! Not cool! 
That said, and as I already stated above, I like that the player can’t just choose which noble they run into at the inn. It is because the scene is so organic, and flawless that the only thing I would change about it is how the book determines which one we find waiting for the MC.
I’ll acknowledge that some readers will have their m!MC did flirt with Hadrian, and won’t have a problem with choosing Alain right after anyway. That’s fine, too. But if you flirt with neither, and they’re too stubborn about backing off, running into a noble you’re not in any way interested in right after is your least favorite flavor icing piped onto your least favorite type/flavor of cake. (Sorry for the gross imagery that may conjure.)
Hadrian comes across as mildly annoying when the MC is both female, and not interested in Alessa. By opposite token, I feel bad for Alessa when the m!MC isn’t interested in her, but doesn’t seem to be listening to the player’s refusal signals.
So to close up this already very long post about one moment in the inn scene that is already handled very well with the list of available responses the player can choose from… The only way I can think of to change which noble you meet from being dependent on who the MC did, and did not flirt with without putting the choice directly in the player’s hands is to make the one encountered have it be a 50/50 randomized coin flip. Flirting with the MC’s companions to instigate which noble you meet just leaves me feeling bad about it all. 
Hopefully I’ve highlighted my qualms reasonably without putting it rudely. I also hope my offered solution makes sense… I don’t know enough about what’s possible in choice script to come up with a different non-player-influenced method that isn’t just going to be too clunky, and bloated to code.
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And here I was, just thinking a lot of mothers were reading the same list of popular baby names. Lol
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@LadyUmbreon89
Oh wow, I have read your post, and having played a single time, I had no idea you could meet any of the two. I thought it had to be Alain.
I don’t have any issue with one or the other since I’m actually interested in Hadrian and I don’t care about the two nobles (I mean, I like them, but not interested in a romantic path), but if I WERE interested in them… I wouldn’t like what you’re suggesting - the 50/50% chance for one or the other, I mean. I’m a person who replays these games for pleasure, and always redoing the same path. If I wanted to romance Alain, I would want to make sure he’s the one I meet at that point. Otherwise, I’d be forced to restart the game a bunch of times. Right now, with the save states, it’s okay, I’d just reload. But when the full game comes out, we won’t be able to save, so yeah…
Though I agree leading Hadrian or Alessa on would break my heart, they’re so sweet.
I’m glad I don’t have this issue!
EDIT: maybe it would be wise to add a choice where your character thinks Alessa is really pretty or something like that? We had one with Hadrian, that wouldn’t really be enough to make him think something is truly happening, I believe? Maybe if the game checked which one the MC thought was beautiful in order to select the noble, and in case you selected that choice for both, or neither, then it could use the 50/50?
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Actually, there’s this exploitable bug in choice script itself… See, if the randomizer is set to activate on the page of the noble’s actual introduction, then jumping into the stat screen will reset the page for a re-roll if you will… You can test this bug with any achievement notification. On the page you get notified, if you jump into the stat page, then return, the notification will pop off again. In practice, you can manipulate some random rolls in actual published games (such as Breach) without ever meaning to if you jump into the stat page really often just to see what changed.
As for me, I like games that aren’t stat heavy, so I can focus more on the story itself. It’s much more relaxed than having to min-max all the time. I did already consider that the suggestion of a randomizer wasn’t going to work for everyone–it’s honestly one of the reasons I took so long to bring this up. But if someone else were like me from a ‘moral’ standpoint of not wanting to play with the companion’s feelings, then we’d be s.o.l. to reach the preferred noble. But this being taken into consideration, and even debated is a good thing. I still wouldn’t want the choice overtly in the player’s hands, though, and looking at the code itself, no matter how a m!MC responds to Alessa, her checks seem to disregard ‘non-hostile, but not positive either’ player input that (in the code itself) should make her ‘romance score’ go down. For some reason, this hidden stat itself seems to not be working as intended, but it also is the core of what influences who you would meet as a m!MC, and the same in reverse for Hadrian. Being male auto-sets Alessa’s romance points from 0 to 1, just as being female sets Hadrian’s from 0 to 1.
As a fellow ‘pleasure player’ I do agree that some things don’t matter if you’re enjoying the story how you like it. 
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I think you just changed my life…
And yeah, I prefer not stat heavy games too, so I get the feeling.
From a moral standpoint I wouldn’t want to give Alessa or Hadrian false hopes. But at the same time, I feel like just looking at them once shouldn’t give them too many ideas? Really, it’s complicated XD
You say that “no matter how a m!MC responds to Alessa, her checks seem to disregard ‘non-hostile, but not positive either’ player input that (in the code itself) should make her ‘romance score’ go down”. I don’t know much about code… do you mean she has “romance points” that should go down, but they don’t? In my playthrough she seemed to have accepted MC sees her as a friend because well, that’s the option I’ve selected when she helps him to dress his wounds, at the beginning (saying “thank you, my friend”). Does that count as hostile answer? Or is it because I’ve actively pursued Hadrian’s romance?
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To answer the q in the blurred bit: “do you mean she has “romance points” that should go down, but they don’t? In my playthrough she seemed to have accepted MC sees her as a friend because well, that’s the option I’ve selected when she helps him to dress his wounds, at the beginning (saying “thank you, my friend”). Does that count as hostile answer? Or is it because I’ve actively pursued Hadrian’s romance?”
The reason she can ‘accept it’ if you flirted with Hadrian is because there’s a check in place for it. The code itself is very elegant, and succinct about how it is supposed to function. Not pursuing Hadrian as a m!MC, and vice versa with Alessa and f!MC, has some unintended consequences, though… As many ‘friendly only’ choices as I make, the code needs to fulfill an *if check to determine which noble appears. It has a few points where it ‘defaults’ to match that need. The first thing the code looks for is the MC’s gender. Second, it checks who you did, and did not flirt with. If you were male, and hoped to meet Alain, but didn’t flirt with Hadrian, Alessa’s romance points are 1 (solely because the MC was m!MC), while Hadrian’s are 0. If you do flirt with Hadrian, then the code sets Alessa’s points to 0, and Hadrian’s to 1. The code can only see that you didn’t flirt with a same gender character when it runs this check. So… Hopefully I’m making sense?
I don’t know… I also don’t see why it wouldn’t, since this is a bug with choice script itself. I own a copy of Breach through Steam on my PC, and that’s how I ended discovering this. If you have a game that does random rolls that are determined on the page itself, you could probably test it live.
This is the part I’ve been quibbling over, though. It would be less ‘gender locked’ with the random roll because currently it depends passively on player input to get a same-gender noble RO to appear. It isn’t possible at all otherwise. I’ve groaned over trying to come up with a solution that isn’t just a lazy ‘do you like A or B’ breaking up the flow of the narrative. As pragmatic as that type of question would be, it doesn’t manage to match the quality of not outright choosing, just giving the illusion that it happened naturally.
If you believe nothing else about my recommendation to make it random, believe this; there are more cases where I think a dice roll/coin flip are the spawn of hell than practical, or justified.
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Sorry to jump in between your discussion. I wonder if this works with Android or iOS version of the game? Otherwise, I agree with Konoi. ROs gender locked behinds dice roll could be frustrating. I usually reset my game when I’ve chosen a wrong choice.
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As far as I’m aware, for me at least, not all the time. There are games where a random event happens yet going into stats doesn’t do anything.
Same, really like Ysabella and would rather not have it end up being a 50/50 chance and end up meeting Alain instead.
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Ok. I tried it and it didn’t worked with Breach on Android Hosted Game Omnibus. It seems to be a PC exploit. If ever Anathema would implement this system in Golden Rose, perhaps an option in the beginning to turn it off will be great for those who don’t like the dice roll system.
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Now that I could get behind. 
Oh, and there are only some choices that can bug into a re-roll, like how the shootout at the beginning happens… I’ve played the role with the saw, and chose to be more cautious/quiet, the page immediately following this, there’s a random roll that bugs if you jump into the stats. But as you say, it could be PC exclusive. 
Anyway… Sorry for being fussy, @Anathema. I just thought this was something that needed at least a little bit of scrutiny since it’s bothered me for a while, but hadn’t yet come up. 
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Aah, I understand now! Thank you for taking the time and explaining it to me!
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