Song Of The Fallen WIP: Yet another Codex Entry posted for opinion

Hosted Games Works In Progress
242

[quote=“DisturbedOne, post:241, topic:10550”]
it’s unfortunate that unpredictable is gone
[/quote] Yeah, as much as it was a fun addition to have and the extra flexibility it provided, it just didn’t fit into the way I’ve decided to handle the personality system. To be honest, when I first started I didn’t really know where I was going with it, so it’s kinda been me just flying by the seat of my pants, but I finally have a really clear idea of what I want this system to be.

Instead of emphasising specific phrases and replies to dialogue situations, I’ve decided to make the option you pick inform the tone of the subsequent dialogue page. So when you pick a sarcastic response, you’ll be lead to the pages written in a sarcastic tone and respond accordingly.

I think this is a much neater way than allowing you a multitude of specific directed responses (though those will still be a factor). It also lets you approach the same scene in a few different ways, changing how characters react to and feel towards you. Anyway, the other trait options had a very clear tone that I could write various scenes in, however “unpredictable” was just too vague for me to pin down, which is why I decided to remove it.

3 Likes
243

OKAY I found a bug? Error?
I talked to Ehren in the Call and he told me he was leaving and made me promise not to tell his sister. So i kept that promise and kept my mouth shut but after talking to the merchant dude.

As circled there… Apparently i told her or she somehow found out.

244

ok am truly loving this up too know

245

So once more I have a few questions, I appreciate any answers as it greatly helps me mould the game as best I can.

  1. Do you find the stats screen and the amount of information on it to be overwhelming? I’m considering revealing different aspects, especially in regards to the Personality screen, in increments so as not to bombard you from the get go.
  2. Are there any parts that felt either rushed, or overly drawn out? Pacing is very important and easy to mishandle.
  3. Does the second chapter feel too long and bloated? A lot happens and I still need to finish up the bella cave scenes as well get that last Call event working. I’m considering putting a chapter break at the point that you decide to leave the Call and head home.
  4. As usual, thoughts on the types of responses you’re afforded is always helpful. Were the options satisfying and in line with the character of your MC? Was there anything that felt out of place or that you wished was there?
  5. General thoughts on the characters themselves and how you feel about them and the way they’re portrayed? At this point I think I’ve pretty much got Ehren the way he needs to be, so I’m mostly concerned about Aivah and Riley/Marcus to a certain extent.
246

1.It didn’t feel like too much for me but for lighter readers it might overwhelm them a bit.
2.It didn’t feel rushed to me for a it may be a little long but it also gives enough time to get a feel for some of the characters
3.For pacing I feel that putting the chapter break would help.
4.If we get punished in the memory can we mention or tell Aivah we haven’t gotten over it.
5.My thoughts are on Aivah and so far she doesn’t feel like a main character or developed enough she just doesn’t stand out to me.
Ehren is our trouble making ambitous and brave friend.
Riley seems to be this grumpy washed out old man thats had an interesting past.

Aivah is just Ehren’s sister.

Or maybe thats just me.

247

480×854 31.1 KB

I got this at the very start

248

I agree with Faewkless that Aivah isn’t as memorable as Riley and Ehren right now.

There wasn’t any point where I wished there was a choice that wasn’t there, so congratulations on that!

Also didn’t find the stats screen overwhelming, though I’d like some information about the Chosen and Gods and Boundblades in there (if this has been mentioned earlier, sorry).

249

@SheaMcD Haha! Sorry about that, I didn’t compile it properly when updating for the previous bug. Should work fine now

[quote=“faewkless, post:246, topic:10550”]
If we get punished in the memory can we mention or tell Aivah we haven’t gotten over it.
[/quote] Gotten over it in what way, blaming her perhaps?

[quote=“bomsasa, post:248, topic:10550”]
though I’d like some information about the Chosen and Gods and Boundblades in there
[/quote] I’ll probably keep some of those cards close to my chest for plot reasons, but I’ll definitely be adding a few Codex entries that’ll get you up to speed on the basics of the lore and religion.

250

I don’t normally comment but I have to give you credit. This game has blown my mind away, this will for sure be in my top 3 most anticipated games.

2 Likes
251

Yes blaming her.
(Epic weaponry of 20 characters)

252

Holy shit.

I consider myself an avid reader of these kinds of games, but this… THIS game right here is something out of legends! Never have i been so enthralled in a story like this. I don’t only feel a connection to the characters but to the world itself. I’ve always wondered how it felt to really be a “fanboy” of something but i’m glad to tell you that this game has answered that question.

With that out of my system i’d like to start off by saying that you have done a great job setting up the story so far. You’ve somehow been able to captivate me in this world that seems so vast and open (something only star wars has been able to do before), and the game is still in alpha! The characters don’t seem like empty shells that only serve one purpose, but as living breathing beings with they’re own backstories, ambitions, imperfections and point of views.

I’ve never felt as shocked and angry when playing one of these games as when !SPOILERS! Heleana straight out murderes your mother.
Now if that’s not good character development, making me care so much for a character that you frankly don’t even see that often, i don’t know what is.

I don’t usually write comments on this forum but i just had to tell you how PUMPED i am to see this game finished, no matter how long i have to wait! I have full confidence that you will be able to make a game able to rival Tin Star, the most holy of text based games. No pressure.

3 Likes
253

  1. Overwhelming? Nah. To be honest, I’ve been a bit more worried about how you’re going to handle that part, expecially since it feels like a lot to take heed of and create options for (as I may have hinted at during our previous disciussion about the issue of the PC’s possible Personalitites). But as for me, it doesn’t feel overwhelming, no. Rather it’s a bit sad that certain aspects of it isn’t finished yet…

  2. Can’t say I felt that any part felt especially rushed…

  3. Not to me, but I agree that it may be a good idea to finish things at the end of the Call. Then again, the funny thing about it is that it could be either a short or long event, depending on how long the player stays at the Call…

  4. Well, I honestly haven’t tried out various approaches there, but since my PC’s character in my tryouts of your game usually leads towards sarcastic or affable, well, I usually get snark or some niceness in the event that follows, which seems as it should be :slight_smile: .

  5. Aivah defintively feels more fleshed out after the update (something I’m pleased about, as I said), but faewkless has a point; At best, she might feel like ‘just’ Ehren’s sister and/or that girl you have a crush on. Or at worst, just a tagalong… I suppose part of the problem (such as it may be) is that we spend most of the time around Ehren who, to make matters worse, has such a character that he easily stands out in the cast, in a manner similar to Semryu of the Waywalkers series. He’s a bit of a troublemaker (albeit a kind-hearted one), he isn’t happy with how things are and longs to go out in the world to better his lot and possibly experience some adventure while he’s at it… ‘Who is he? What does he want? Where is he going?’ - those questions can be important when creating a character and you’ve answered these questions one might pose when taking a close look at the character in question splendidly with Ehren, whereas with Aivah, not enough has been to done to show much of her character, which leaves her feeling lacking when compared to Ehren, especially as she haven’t really done anything of impact yet… As for Riley, he doesn’t have that large a presence in the story yet, but to be honest… I wouldn’t expect him to, actually, because he only becomes important after that one certain event…

1 Like
254

  1. I didn’t find it overwhelming. I was actually really interested in the different aspects you have created–I was constantly going back and forth during the game checking to see which stats I had affected.

  2. I think pacing was done expertly well. I especially loved the scene with the MC’s background with Ehren, as well as the options to kill Heleana after your mother dies. It didn’t feel rushed at all, and I was quickly enveloped into the atmosphere of the story. Such events in chapter two during the Call also felt very detailed and well-written.

  3. I kind of think of the chapters in certain increments: Chapter 1 is the introduction, introducing important characters like Ehren and Heleana, for example, and kick-starting the beginnings of the plot. Chapter 2 is the events in the Call, and Chapter 3 is meeting Arabella and the murder of your mother. Depending on the events in each chapter, I don’t think length is an issue. It’s more along the lines of what each chapter is meant to do versus how long it feels. It really depends on what you want the Chapter to represent for the story, at least, that’s how I feel.

  4. Sarcastic was a personal favorite of mine, although I am partial to stoic and affable responses as well since those are more in line with myself in real life. But I’m the type of person who plays the story separately from myself and thinks of the MC as a complete different entity, so I like to choose responses that I feel will represent the character I want my MC to be. Sarcastic and Tempestuous responses amused me on some level (some responses to tempestuous answers from characters like the merchant in the Call were interesting to see.) I ended up choosing stoic responses less often than sarcastic or affable, but not because I thought they were lacking. I think you have done very well with what you have given us with these four options–and I know you mentioned taking out unpredictable–and I don’t think anything felt out-of-place.

  5. Ehren was wonderful (as most have mentioned), and Heleana has that mysterious aura to her that fits her lofted character portrayal very well. We know little about her and her origins so it serves well that we be a little curious about her or a little wary. Riley, as someone mentioned, isn’t given a lot of screen time or emphasis because his true name and some of his background isn’t revealed until chapter 3, and that means we don’t get a lot of information about him until then, which works well and makes sense. I don’t think there are any issues there. Finally, Aivah. Since the update, I became very interested in her character as well. She does come off as a little like a tag-along, as others said, and it feels a little like she is overshadowed by the relationship between Ehren and the MC because their friendship is highlighted on throughout the story. If there is a way to increase her importance in some manner (maybe not necessarily during the Call, but later perhaps?) or create opportunities to develop her as a character more through the events in the Call or after, you can solve this issue.

1 Like
255

By the way, I found a little error you might want to know about. It’s during the conversation with Olfrid:

“How long before they lose a limb or die in a fire?” You ask, sweetly.

Ehren smiles, while Aivah titters with an uncharacteristic chuckle. Olfrid, however, simply waves it away with a throaty chuckle. “Oh come now Ehren, you should know better than to joke about losing limbs, what would your Da say? If he wasn’t too busy drinking that is.” He winks as if he’d just shared a marvellous joke, oblivious to the increasingly tense atmosphere.

The text says that the PC says it, but the way Olfrid speaks here, it sounds like Ehren was the one saying it?

1 Like
256

[quote=“faewkless, post:251, topic:10550”]
Yes blaming her.
[/quote] Hmm, ok I’ll give that some thought and see what I can come up with. We’ll definitely be revisiting that flashback at some point. As you may or may not have gathered from the way it ended, there’s a little more going on there.

[quote=“valterw, post:252, topic:10550”]
i just had to tell you how PUMPED i am to see this game finished
[/quote] Wow, thank you! I don’t really know how to respond to that to be honest, that’s really high praise. Tin Star is probably my second favourite CoG and I especially admire it for the depth and insane flexibility it gave you as a reader, not to mention it’s great story. If I can do something half as good, I’ll be very proud indeed. So yeah…no pressure.

[quote=“DarkSpeck, post:253, topic:10550”]
Rather it’s a bit sad that certain aspects of it isn’t finished yet
[/quote] I know exactly what you mean, I’m still sort of tinkering with it and trying to decide which parts are necessary and it what way they’ll be necessary. I’m sort of working through it in a compartmentalised way, my first priority was to decide exactly how I wanted the traits to work and manifest themselves. Now that I have that decided, I can start thinking more about how I want dispositions to work and then the part I’ve been avoiding the most, how to make them work together and coexist.

[quote=“DarkSpeck, post:253, topic:10550”]
funny thing about it is that it could be either a short or long event, depending on how long the player stays at the Call
[/quote] That’s why the Call is probably riddled with bugs. There are so many different paths and permutations to account for, it’s been a bit of a headache trying to write it all in such a way as to keep it logically consistent no matter the path you choose. Not that I’m complaining, it’s the kind of challenge I love tackling!

[quote=“DarkSpeck, post:253, topic:10550”]
whereas with Aivah, not enough has been to done to show much of her character, which leaves her feeling lacking when compared to Ehren
[/quote]That’s a really great point, it’s something I’ve been a bit concerned with. Obviously it’s hard for me to really gauge being as close to it all as I am, so thanks for that! I’ll work on fleshing out and showcasing the specifics of her character motivations.

[quote=“DarkSpeck, post:253, topic:10550”]
As for Riley, he doesn’t have that large a presence in the story yet
[/quote]True, my main concern was that he might come across as a bit too abrasive, making him annoying to read. I should have clarified that a bit.

[quote=“Mosspool13, post:254, topic:10550”]
Depending on the events in each chapter, I don’t think length is an issue
[/quote]That’s a great summation, I shouldn’t get so hung up on the length and just stick to the theme and feel I need a Chapter to represent, no matter how long or short that might make it.

[quote=“Mosspool13, post:254, topic:10550”]
or create opportunities to develop her as a character more through the events in the Call
[/quote]More Aivah development, penciled that in and on the way! I’ll actually a bit relieved that the only concerns about her that have been put forward are about the fact that she just isn’t fleshed out enough rather than people actively disliking or being annoyed by her.

2 Likes
257

@Left4Bed

  1. Nope
  2. No
  3. I dont think so, but then again i love long chapters xD
  4. I dont feel that anything was unsatisfying.
  5. Aivah after the update is great! before she just felt kind of hollow. And Ehren is just great and my fave so far :grin:
258

cRY Because I’m so late to this update.

[quote=“Left4Bed, post:245, topic:10550”]
Do you find the stats screen and the amount of information on it to be overwhelming?[/quote]
No. I think it would’ve been if you had kept all the info on one page. But you didn’t and separated everything into different sections quite nicely.

No, not at all. It feels like you’re slowly introducing me to different lore, people and aspects of the world while building up towards the actual story conflict. ( obviously referring to the end of chapter 2)
It’s a welcome change from most Choice games. Most of the time stories start off with you already in the middle of the main conflict and force you to decide things right off the bat.

Like always, yes. Stoic still feels very satisfying to me, personally.

I agree with @faewkless with the blaming of Aviah. I don’t personally think my MC would hold it against her but at the same time he wouldn’t go out of his way to make her not feel guilty if she did. Like treat her like normal, but never directly say, ‘No it wasn’t your fault’ because technically it was ( >_ >)
Mc got hurt because of her, Ehren got hurt because of him. Domino effect.

EHREN nGGHHHHHHHH– nEVER BEEN SO EXCITED ABOUT HAND HOLDING I SWEAR. ITS SO SUBTLE AND SWEET AND THIS RO WITH GIVE ME DIABETES.

After this update, I feel like I know Aviah a bit better. She could be so much more with that head on her shoulders so it’s really sad to see how stuck she is in regards to her station in life. She could be a doctor or professor or basically anything she wants but she’s stuck with her brewery. :C
also thought it was interesting to see how surprised Ehren was to see how intelligent she is. It says a bit about how much he speaks and actually knows about her. Ehren~ Invest more in your sis~ She’s a smart cookie.

Riley? Personality-wise, he seems very…laidback? I laughed at how he stole some of Aviah’s drink then complained about it Like if I were to pretend to not know that he’s not who he claims he is I would still assume there’s more to him especially after his very subtle reaction to seeing the Sun-Sister in the bar. Even though I don’t know much about him, with his wit and laid-back way of carrying himself; I really like him. I feel like if he carries on with my MC into chapter 3, he’d have a very laid-back, Fatherly-type personality.

Olfrid.Can he die? Because I want him to. Like badly. I have so much hatred for this character it’s ridiculous. My MC kept calming down Ehren, but I kinda wanted him to leap over the table and RKO the bastard.

Oh! Also the scene where Ehren’s dad carries him to the clinic is really well written and really sad. Bravo on it. I could tell how him not being able to protect Ehren ate at him.
It also makes me wonder if he actual did anything in the war and didn’t get crippled from trying to get away in an act of cowardice. :unamused:
If he didn’t stand up for his own kid, I kinda doubt he’d stand up against an army. I feel like I understand him a bit more too.
Guy has a lot of reasons to drink.

2 Likes
259

[quote=“Left4Bed, post:256, topic:10550, full:true”]
That’s a really great point, it’s something I’ve been a bit concerned with. Obviously it’s hard for me to really gauge being as close to it all as I am, so thanks for that! I’ll work on fleshing out and showcasing the specifics of her character motivations.[/quote]

Sounds good :smile: .This is how I so far see Ehren and Aivah; maybe that can help showing you a little where there needs to be improvement and/or changes if I’ve misunderstood any/something about them thus far:

Ehren Brewer:
Traits/personality: Reckless, Kind-hearted, Snarky.
Goal in life: Archieving success out there in the world, preferably as a successful adventurer.
Summary: Though he’s generally a cheerful and nice guy, Ehren is not happy with his lot in life. He longs to go out in the world, to archieve success and greatness - perhaps to prove that he can be/become what he feels that his father could not. Has a habit of being reckless, a trait of his that has ended up getting both him and the PC in trouble before. Is determited enough to fulfil his dream that he is prepared to leave his family and everything behind if he has to - a hint that he may have a more selfish side to him than one might think at first.

Aivah Brewer:
Traits/Personality: Reserved, Sensible, Intelligent
Goal in life: Ít’s especially here that she is a question mark. It has been vaugely hinted that she might want to inherit and improve the family business, but this is at best a very vauge hint…
Summary: In some ways, Aivah can be said to be the opposite of her brother. Whereas her brother is reckless, she’s more level-headed. Whereas he is somewhat bold, she is more reserved. Like her brother, she doesn’t seem entirely happy with her lot in life but hides it better than her brother - and she has a different approach to it; whereas Ehren wants to change that by going out in the world, she wants to do it by doing better in the place where she is now. Whereas Ehren seems to harbor a certain hunger for greatness, she seem to harbor a certain hunger for knowledge.

Also, another error I’ve found to - or at least something you might want to change; after telling Aivah about Eren leaving, you get this after the browsing of the tables:

Casting a quick glance at Aivah, she turns to meet your eye and smiles pleasantly. She seemed to have recovered from her earlier anger; perhaps she’d make good on her promise not to tell Ehren she knew he was leaving. You sigh inwardly, a part of you felt guilty for telling her and yet you knew that she deserved to know. The irony of their dual deception was not lost on you.

But then, at the tavern, we also get a rather similar piece of text:

“What is…it?” Asks Aivah, lightly dipping her finger into her tankard. Made wet by the dark liquid, she brings it up and dabs it onto her tongue. You regard her cautiously, there was very little in her manner to bear reference to the anger that was surely boiling; perhaps she’d make good on her promise not to tell Ehren she knew of his plans. You sigh inwardly, a part of you felt guilty for telling her and yet you knew that she deserved to know. The irony of their dual deception was not lost on you.

Changing one of the two might be a good idea…

2 Likes
260

[quote=“SteamShard, post:258, topic:10550”]
cRY Because I’m so late to this update
[/quote] Better late than never!

[quote=“SteamShard, post:258, topic:10550”]
EHREN nGGHHHHHHHH-
[/quote]Haha! I had a feeling you might like that cute little moment. I think it was @DarthDovahkin who earlier asked about my approach to romance in the game, and I think that scene represents a clear example of the kind of thing I’m going for. I’ve often found romance in games to be a bit underwhelming, which is doubly disappointing since that’s pretty much the first thing I check for when trying a new game. I want to be able to feel this character as more than just a few lines of text letting me know they’re into me every now and again. It’s just one little scene and one little moment, but I want to be able to have those. I want them to jump to my defence if they feel I’m being disrespected and I want to be able to do the same for them. If something happens to them, I want to feel torn and hurt, the same way I’d feel if a character in my favourite book got injured or killed. I want the sense of escapism to actually allow me to escape and become this new and different person in a fictional universe full of a cast that feel as real as I do. Since I was struggling to find the kinds of games that would let me experience this, I thought I’d try to make my own.

[quote=“SteamShard, post:258, topic:10550”]
Olfrid.Can he die?
[/quote] Haha! He was designed to be hated, (I stopped just short of giving him an evil cackle) so I’m really glad to have succeeded on that count!

[quote=“SteamShard, post:258, topic:10550”]
I could tell how him not being able to protect Ehren ate at him.
[/quote]Yes, it also really tore Ehren up inside as well. He was sort of forced to see his father in a new light as a result, as simply a man who talks of heroes and stories to hide his own inadequacies and what Ehren sees as cowardice. It’s also a big motivator for his desire to go out into the world, he doesn’t want to be just like his father, full of the tales of others, he wants to create his own and do what his father never could.

[quote=“DarkSpeck, post:259, topic:10550”]
Ít’s especially here that she is a question mark. It has been vaugely hinted that she might want to inherit and improve the family business, but this is at best a very vauge hint…
[/quote]It is quite vague, partly because at this point she doesn’t really know what she wants since she’s never felt the same kind of single minded drive Ehren has. At best she knows what she doesn’t want to be, but at the same time she’s willing to put her family’s needs before her own.

[quote=“DarkSpeck, post:259, topic:10550”]
In some ways, Aivah can be said to be the opposite of her brother.
[/quote]That’s a great characterization! I actually had someone who offered to help me out with character portraits and sketches and I wrote almost exactly that in the character descriptions I sent her, so it’s really satisfying to see that that actually comes across.

[quote=“DarkSpeck, post:259, topic:10550”]
she has a different approach to it; whereas Ehren wants to change that by going out in the world, she wants to do it by doing better in the place where she is now
[/quote]Hmm, putting it like that is actually something I hadn’t thought of…I really like it though, especially with the way it follows the contrast between the two of them. I hope you don’t mind if I pinch that thought, I’m already thinking of ways to sprinkle it in.

[quote=“DarkSpeck, post:259, topic:10550”]
Changing one of the two might be a good idea
[/quote]I see, yes that is a weird redundancy. I’m on it!

2 Likes
261

Yeah, I was definitely happy with the little moment you can get with Ehren. It was short, but it was sweet.

And I feel the same way you do on the subject of romance in games like these, which is a very comforting thought. It’s the subtle things we see in real life that they often miss. Huge romantic declarations of love are well and good, but there’s more to romance than that. If someone loves you, you’ll catch them looking at you when they should be focusing on something else. Or you’ll share grins with each other at an inside joke. You’ll grab each others hands and give a gentle squeeze before continuing on to do whatever you were doing before. Or maybe squeeze their butt rather than their hand, you know, depending on the person. Hahaha.

The big things make the romance obvious, but the little ones make it real.

1 Like