Speaking of the Byzantines and cannonfire, Constantinople had truly massive walls which the Turks would never have been able to breach in 1453 without constructing large numbers of very, very large canons. Those super-bombards were effective enough, that when the Turks dusted some of them off and started firing them again some 350 years later after their construction, they were able to force a British expeditionary fleet in 1807 to retreat with not insignificant casualties, while the small Turkish fleet hid in port, safe under their protective fire. Moving ships are much harder to hit than larger, entirely stationary walls. So I wouldn’t completely discount the potential effectiveness of 15th century canons. Sure, they weren’t anywhere near as precise as more modern canons, but if you built enough of them and pointed them at the same target, the shots that did hit would do some serious damage. Troops back then weren’t drilled the way modern troops are, so they were easily routed, and walls could be worn down over several days of sustained fire, even if individually, the canons weren’t very precise.
I’d just like to pop in to say that I’ve gone through this once or twice, and it looks really neat. The dichotomy between magic and pre-industrial tech has always fascinated me and I’m glad to see that I’m not the only one captivated by this sort of thing.
A note on firearms though: Judging by the weapons you’re offered in the sparring room, I’d say that we’re looking at late-flintlock era (1800-1840 or so) equivalent weapons. The weapons themselves are obviously sturdy and light enough to have melee weapons incorporated into them and the complex mechanism needed for the creation of pepperbox revolvers (like the one attached to the morningstar) don’t really come into existence until the early 19th century.
These weapons are VERY formidable when used properly: they WILL punch through plate armour at appreciable ranges, manage to hit a man-sized target consistently at about 50-75 metres and trained musketeers would be able to use them to fire at least three shots a minute (there were regiments in the Prussian army that could manage SIX IIRC).
The main issue I have is the idea of fusing flintlock firearms with melee weapons:
Firstly, the flint and steel which serves as the firing mechanism (or lock) of a flintlock weapon is delicate to the extreme, especially when the priming pan is filled with powder and the barrel is loaded (read: when the gun is ready to fire). Any jostle or impact might tip the priming powder out of the pan, dislodge the loaded ball and powder or lead to a misfire in a thousand other ways.
Secondly, the process of reloading any kind of muzzle-loading weapon (like a flintlock) requires you to “ram home” the ball, powder and wadding with a wooden or iron ramrod. This means that you are frantically moving your hand very, VERY close to the muzzle of your gun. I can imagine that having a blade on that gun would not bode well for anybody reloading inattentively. If you look at 18th century spike bayonets, you’ll see that they’re offset far enough from the barrel to allow a hand and ramrod to move around near them, although offsetting a heavier weapon like a sword blade might unbalance the whole weapon entirely.
@Cataphrak raises a good point (I’ll take his/her word for it). But, I think any inconsistency can be explained away as it being an alternate reality, a bit of a cheat, but meh. Or, seems to me that the ‘Gift of Sionn’ could explain most problems of this nature.
When I come up with new weapons not closely based on something used in real life, I usually sketch it out, so I know that it looks realistic/consistent/badass enough to be used in a story.
@P_Tigras yes but the Great Turkish Bombards took 3 hours to reload. And they didn’t build a lot of them, - which is to say, they probably had single-figured numbers, - due to the cost of building, the difficulty of transporting, and the high consumption of gunpowder for low accuracy and rate of fire.
An important distinction to make is that the bombards of Constantinople were siege guns. That meant that they fired very slowly, were gigantic in size and required immense effort to move, even at a very slow pace. These are the sort of weapons carried along by VERY large armies for the sole purpose of destroying fortress walls. Until the invention of exploding shells in the early 19th century, their destructive power didn’t really increase significantly. They DID get lighter, more durable, less likely to explode etc, but aside from the invention of corned powder, they didn’t get much more powerful. A gigantic iron ball thrown at high velocities is still going to hurt either way.
If you’re bringing cannon to a set-piece battle, you’re going to be bringing field artillery. These are the ones mounted on trunnions and pulled by horses. They fire lighter shot, but they’re also faster to move and reload (more like a shot every 2-5 minutes IIRC). These guns didn’t begin to become effective until the beginning of the 17th century, when cannon technology advanced enough to allow for lighter barrels. The main differences between siege and field artillery is that the latter is much lighter, can travel at the speed of foot on good roads (or faster, once horse artillery became popular after the Seven Years’ War) and fire much lighter cannonballs SPECIFICALLY for the purpose of punching holes in enemy troop formations and cover (like fences and houses full of soldiers) as opposed to fortresses.
@Shssay There’s this game, Way Walkers: University, that has a lot of the elements you were talking about. It’s a fantasy world with different tech mixed in, and though you play as a human you’re friends with a variety of races with different magics from phasing through walls to becoming dragons. Of course this world is far more utopic than the one you’re describing. Anyway, if you’d like to take a look: http://www.choiceofgames.com/forum/discussion/711/way-walkers-university/p1
@AlyssaP it is inappropriate to hijack a thread in this way. Do not do it again.
curious @jasonstevanhill how is it inappropriate?
Off-topic
And something remarkably similar has been spammed in too many threads around here lately–including at least one over a month old. It’s great when a game has such devoted fans helping to give it a push (God knows, our “simple text games” need all the word-of-mouth help they can get!), but really, around here it’s like preaching to the choir . . . If anyone really wants to help push their favorite games, do it out there in the big wide world! 
haahahah i understand. spam is annoying
On a tactical note on weapons vs. magic… I think an important note is to set how the magic users were prepared. That is too say, an arrogant overconfident army who doesnt veiw them as threatening is very different story from a hardened, battle ready spellslingers
@Cataphrak I’m glad I found someone interested in this subject! I might end up picking your brain as I stumble through.^^ The way you describe these guns’ destructive power reaffirms my idea that they could be used to good effect even against mages if they were used intelligently.
I actually modeled the mace/pepperbox combo after a similar weapon used by Henry VIII, known as Henry VIII’s Walking Staff: “The English also combined pistols with maces. A notable example is Henry VIII’s Walking Staff, a 3 barreled pistol and morning star. The king would carry it while walking through the city at night to check up on the constables. Henry’s mace pistol is now on display in the Tower of London’s Tudor Room.” Henry VIII lived from 1491 to 1547, which is why I thought that the technology would fit. The other melee/flintlock combos are based on real-life weapons as well…apparently there was a time when smiths were grafting guns into practically everything. I even found an instance where a nobleman had flintlocks fashioned into his silverware.
But if the issue is about how practical they’d be for the characters to use in the story, that might be a fair point. I’m not so in love with the idea of a gunblade or gunaxe that I would be averse to changing it up a bit to make the story more believable.^^
@RDT Heh, I was kind of hoping that I could explain away some of those problems with Sionn’s gift.
@P_Tigras @Drazen @Cataphrak Turkish bombards, you say? I think I found another piece of weaponry to research…
@Raven Yes, that’s definitely part of the advantage enjoyed by Sionn’s Children. They have spent the last few decades combining their forces while the mages remain embroiled in their petty squabbles amongst themselves. They would definitely have an edge in power if they joined forces, but it just never happened. And it’s true that they didn’t view Sionn’s Children as much of a threat until it was too late.
If you want your game to contain somwhat unusual weaponry may I also suggest looking into Volley Guns, including Nock Guns and Organ Guns, as well as iron-cased Rocket Artillery, such as used by the Mysore.
Non-European or non-standard weapons are always a good place to look if you want historical weapons that still have an exotic feel to them. The Korean Hwacha and the Puckle Gun are some good examples. You can always combine the archaic with the technological, like slingers hurling hand grenades or shield walls with guns instead of spears.
Oh that would be interesting. As the shield wall advances, volleys of musket-balls could be propelled prior to the guns being spun around to their melee components; this would allow some practicality to weapons such as the mace/pepperbox combo. Linear warfare from several eras combined!
Early firearms saw a lot of use as clubs after their ammunition had been fired, so using the butt of a musket or pistol has definite historical precedence.
So this was a really cool story, and I wanted to see magic totally beat non magic back into submission, or magic win but stop being dbags to those without magic. But there hasnt been any additions. So hows it going? Is this going to advance any?
I’m still working on it.^^ I’m re-working a few things in the story based on the feedback I’ve gotten from everyone and finishing up the storyline for the first part. My college semester has started, so that’s slowing me down a bit, but I work on it whenever I have a free moment. Hopefully I’ll have an update to show everyone soon.
