I still see redemption in jun/ko afterall the jigoku itto ryu does drive anyone to insanity and it was the only option he had to survive but thats my opinion and im in full support of a redemption arc and if he cant for some players then the option to kill him will most likely be there too but having a choice to redeem hin would be appreciated also just curious is t stated in game that jun/ko is a demon? because i can see him become one nonetheless
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Junko was stated to be psychotic before the Jigoku or at best unstable. So fore everyone talking about how they are corupted by it, it just doesn’t seem to be the case. However it certainly didn’t help…
And yeah there is foreshadowing Junko is going to be a demon, they even said they would become one.
From what I recall, there’s the part where Jun/ko met General Shatao. It is quite odd that the general was still alive after that.
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I cant blame ju/nko for going insane especially with the living conditions s/he had in the past especially with there father and his adoptive father still hoping for a redemption arc
Also @Chain321 and @resuri08 thanks for answering my question and im chalking up to his armor and the fact he is a legit demon as well lol
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Imo. If you plan to have a redemption arc, the author missed that opportunity in this book – given that this is supposed to be the half way mark. Redemption only works if the person in question is struggling between two moral axises (is that even the plural form)
Zuko is a redemption story precisely because of that. The pursuit of personal honor and what it means to have it (who should give it, what should one do if they are disgraced, etc) are core questions in his character development
Jun(ko) has 0 interest in that. As far as we know their only goal is the MC – whatever that means – and as of now amassing power for unknown reasons. I mean they seem set up to be a demon for whatever reason and they’ve been obsessed with a very deadly legacy and swordstyle
So yeah. Jun(ko) firmly remains in the “cool motive, still murder” camp. They don’t need to be redeemed in order to be compelling
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I know the feeling - redemption means little to the victims who continue to bear the consequences of the criminal’s transgressions. Neither much does death, really - there’s a line of thought that the criminal who wishes for redemption should either remove his victims’ suffering, or suffer as they did. Nothing less.
This calls for a Jinchuu!
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We do still have three books to go so i dont see why not implement a redemption arc if the author wishes for it especially since i think we will be going to them in book 4 and ur right jun/ko is an already compelling character but as i said a redemption arc would be appreciated however it is not a need and also @Pheriannath if jun/ko loses a tongue im cool with it especially after what he did to momoko granted we should be the ones to let momoko do it all the more sweeter
Mostly because this should be the turning point. MC separates from the group, Hatch is now a de-facto lord, Masa has reunited with family, and Toshi is likely being set up to choose between MC and the Emperor.
Structurally, there should be something of a pivot here to show where these characters are going next. Jun(ko) pretty much made that choice with what they did to Momoko. And besides, there is literally nothing at this point to show that they’re even struggling in a redemptive sense.
And should Jun(ko) be allowed to redeem themselves, the big question should be why.
Messianic complex of the players aside for replay purposes, I don’t think it does anything for them. It makes Momoko’s suffering moot (as previously mentioned), and again nothing in them has marginally hinted at wanting it.
Redemption only works if you admit you fucked up and try to make things right – look at how the MC can possibly be set this way and in the previous example, Zuko
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Well the thing is there hasnt been a guiding hand or anyone at all that helped jun/ko to actually try to redeem themselves since basically most of there life theyve just been used and abused and all they know in life is that power equals authority as to ur question why should be given a chance to redeem themselves is because no ine else gave them that option so why not let the MC do it if there willing enough to do so? Tho i agree with you that jun/ko has not shown any signs of redemption but given his/her lot in life why would they think they needed it when no one tried to reach out to them?
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Honestly, I just think someone loses his opportunity for redemption the moment they do bad things for no reason. Our MC did bad things for her survival, Jun those them for the sake of it.
If someone was abused as a child and then grows up to abuse other people, I don’t think they deserve any redemption. No one here would say a paedophile deserves redemption, even if they were raped as a child, but for some reason someone who tortures and kills people, adults and children alike, just because, does deserve it.
Unless Devon shows a lot of new information about Jun in the next books, unless Jun acknowledge all the horrible things he has done and shows refret, he should not have a chance. He is a monster and he doesn’t care about it, not as far as we know.
And, honestly, if he has redemption, why not other character? Why not the Kondo Butcher? For putting an example.
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Im all for redemption arcs tbh and if there was an option sure id take it 
i just like having the option of actually taking it but if the author doesnt see fit to put it in there, there are other ways to craft the story and i get what you mean about the abused growing up to be the abuser and it sucks and its wrong and im not saying jun/ko get away scott free they should and be appropriately punished for all the shit they do but id also like to have the option of actually trying to redeem them whether the outcome is good or bad. I believe in second chances and would like to have the option in game as well but if others dont want it then why not include the option of death as well? But it all depends on the author with whatever direction they want to go
Because redemption is a personal journey. It doesn’t come from an external force.
Take Zuko again for example, it wasn’t Aang or Mai who made him turn good. He decided that on his own after realizing being recognized by his father was not what he wanted given all he’s seen and gone through
Again using ATLA as an example, Zuko had Iroh and even with his uncle’s presence, he had refused it. Which is why a big part of him growing was admitting he was lost and wrong (the reunion scene is poignant because of that). Yes, he had Iroh but Iroh was not the driving factor of him turning leaf
As nice the sentiment of saving Jun(ko) from Jun(ko) is, it’s completely unfair to everyone else. Just because they were abused does not give them the free pass to do what they did.
MC was also abused, same with Momoko, and a good deal from the cast and yet it’s not used as a justification. Momoko for instance at least tried to make right after her opium stint. There was an active effort on her part to make right so in that sense she deserves a redemptive arc
Jun(ko) as sympathetic as they are, are not in that headspace of being redeemed. If second chances are to be given, it’s definitely not in their cards. Why? Because since book one they have not once tried to work in that direction.
And frankly, it is not the MC who should have that burden. Jun(ko)'s burden is theirs alone and likewise their journey is too
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That is true but as you said when relating to zuko atleast he did have someone to back him up and to atleast steer him to the right direction when need be and atleast iroh was a positive force even when zuko didnt heed him to his advice as far as i know jun/ko never had that and yes ur right the MC doesnt need to do it at all but having the option to actually help out would be great afterall we play each of our characters differently. Why cant i play one who wants to redeem someone as broken and deranged as jun/ko? And i agree with you about redemption arcs about letting the character be the ones to take the initiative but why not allow a guiding hand to push them to the right direction
All I know is that I don’t want Momoko to be thrown under the bus for a Junko/Jun redemption arc.
I already feel bad that my MC didn’t return her feelings, and now my MC is just gonna welcome Jun/Junko with open arms after he/she made Momoko a mute?
Like can we please give Momoko a break? Redeeming Jun/Junko feels like the ultimate betrayal to her. At the very least Jun/Junko better find away to give Momoko her tongue back. That’s the only way I’ll even consider forgiving them.
And that’s not even including what they did to Masami/Masashi. Hurting children is usually what seals the deal for being irredeemable.
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@Dwise i dont think anyone wants momoko thrown under the bus? Like even if she doesnt appeal to me as a character i really do like her and do hope she gets her own form of vengeance against jun/ko like there both not mutually exclusive u cn have jun/ko redeem themselves and have momoko cut of his tongue as i said as much as i want to redeem jun/ko it aint interesting if they dont get the deserved payback that they literally deserve which should be seen if they do have a redemption arc since for me, i view death as an easy way out but i could be biased and just like changing people
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And all the innocent people Jun has killed for no reason? How do their families get vengeance? Because if it is eye for and eye, as you suggest with Momoko, then he should be executed for all the lives he has taken.
Shouldnt the same be said for the ronin who probably killed just as much as jun/ko? And yes i know the ronin tried to not kill as much innocents as they can but there hands are just as soaked shouldnt they be made to answer for there crimes as well? There are other ways to redeem oneself but if you prefer the blood for blood route im pretty sure the story would go that way too
The ronin and Jun are different in two very important points. One is that the ronin killed for a reason, to survive, while Jun kills because he likes it. And second, Jun gives zero fucks about all the atrocities he has done. So they are in two completely different levels.
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It’s getting slightly philosophical, but I’ll try my best to articulate. If the MC stopped to consider what it means to redeem Jun/ko, he might conclude the task to be self-contradictory.
Here’s what I mean (I think):
- A necessary part of redemption involves both recognising your past deeds and reconciling with them. Nothing less will suffice. (so if e.g. Jun/ko had amnesia and then developed the personality of a good person overnight, I would not consider that a redemption.)
- If Jun/ko was so crazy that s/he didn’t understand what s/he was doing, then it’s likely that s/he is better off dead for everybody’s sake anyway, including his/her own. For the purposes of this argument, I"m going to assume otherwise.
- Let’s say Jun/ko knew what s/he was doing, and the MC manages by some miracle to bring he/r around to a ‘good’ point of view.
Taking reference from Rurouni Kenshin (since Samurai of Hyuga takes some inspiration from it), Kenshin - who’s a former mass murderer, when all’s said and done - at least has the debatable justification that he was doing it for the revolution, to secure a better future for the commonfolk and all that.
As for Jun/ko? S/he did all of that stuff for no practical reason.
If Jun/ko ever gains a conscience at least decent enough for civilised society, and considered what s/he had done in the past (recognising your deeds, remember?)…
How could s/he live with him/herself? Knowing that s/he had previously (with full awareness and willingness) made so many people suffer? With so many misdeeds, how does one even begin to make amends? Is it even possible?
That kind of thinking is full of suffering, and could potentially lead to self-abuse/suicide.
Would a ‘redemption’ for Jun/ko even end well for him/her?
I don’t see the answer, honestly.
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Depends on the ronin your playing as but i do see your point.
Also @Pheriannath really good points and thank you for the philosophical insight i like seeing different perspectives from time to time
And thats why i find the redemption arc so interesting because there are so many ways it cab play out but im an idealist so eh but even if it doesnt end up happy id be grateful in having an option for it but we shall see wont we as we continue the story 
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