Questions about incomplete works

General
#1

These might have been answered before, but it might take me longer than I’d like to find them. So here goes. My question, for now, pertains to two works: “Unnatural” and “So You’re Possessed”. Are follow ups in the works? Have the authors given up? If the latter is true, will customers be offered a form of compensation for being deceived into purchasing an incomplete product that was advertised as completed? (I am not trying to sound greedy or whiny. I am just curious as to the status of these works).

Thank you for your time.

#2

The sequel of so you are possessed is complete as far as i can recall the wip link was removed several days earlier so it might have been submitted by now though it’s release dates are not up. Yet.

#3

@DUNGEON_MASTER

So, I should expect the sequal for SYP to show up soon?

Any updates on Unnatural? (Although an unrelated suggestion would be to maybe not have the MC so OP near the end of the first segment).

#4

I have not played unnatural yet currently playing the Eagle’s her so I cannot reflect any views on that matter but there were some news of season 2 of unnatural
And sequel for SYP should not be coming anytime soon due to the waiting list

#5

I take it the waiting list is a list of completed works waiting, in order, for publication?

#6

Well I am lazy so here is a link - go for treasure hunting

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#7

Thank you for the information.

#8

I don’t know is waiting list what it is called but yes it is somewhat a waiting list and yes they are games with completed stories well some assets could be missing like icons and images

#9

“Decieved into purchasing an incomplete product.” Jeez, these things take time. That’s all there is to it.

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#11

You were not deceived, unless you somehow paid for the sequels before they were released. If you purchased Unnatural S1 you should have recieved Unnatural S1.

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#12

The lord of the rings movies didn’t come out back to back either. Neither did Pirates of the Carribean. Keep your panties on.

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#13

@ReDragonInc Next time please choose your words right.

#14

Actually, my words are just fine. The only problem with this thread is the quickness in which people are to spew hate.

My statement was a question. “Is it A) or B)”. Not “They totally tricked me”, but “Are there more in the works or are they not”? Then a follow up of “If B) then what’s the solution, if there is one”?

So thus, any misunderstanding is the rest of yours, and your quickness to aggression.

Probably inadvisable to tell someone how to talk, unless they were being flammatory, harassing or hostile.

Side note @LordofLA : They were advertised as such.

#15

Well I do think that people have different perspectives an they tend to see things differently - so try to be specific about what you are trying to say rather than opening other less pleasant paths .

#16

Your problem was using the word “Deceived” which has a distinctly negative connotation. You were implying (with words, if not actual intention-- and words are what matter in a forum post since we can’t read your tone or body language) that if the sequels had been scrapped, you’d been conned into buying a game and wanted your money back. Which of course offends people on here, both as fans of the games and as writers/coders who understand the process.

SYP is one of my favorite games on the site, and I respect the creator after hanging around the forums; even if game two was scrapped I would be disappointed, but I wouldn’t feel like I’d been ripped off (that being said, I’m majorly happy that the sequel is on its way to us). You implying that there was deception-- in other words, that the authors deliberately marketed this as having a sequel with no intention of putting out another one-- as opposed to real life problems that would have got in the way is upsetting.

And you suggesting that there should be some form of refund (financial or otherwise) should the games fall through is disregarding the fact that you paid for and played the first games in the series. And thus got what you paid for. Refunds would be if someone started a crowdfunding for a sequel that never panned out, and you’d like the money that went nowhere please.

You should have used the phrasing here, rather than what you said in your post, if you meant your question to be less aggressive.
(Edit: Rephrased for clarity)

12 Likes
#17

How about arrogantly entitled?

Over to you again, Neil:

“No such contract existed. You were paying your ten dollars for the book you were reading, and I assume that you enjoyed it because you want to know what happens next.”

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#18

What a fantastic blog. Gaiman put it perfectly.

#19

Simple question, and answers, only to be later met with hostility. I am disappointed to see a Moderator of the forums, of all people, being the one to resort to name calling, when no name calling or hate-speech of any kind has occurred. As for @DUNGEON_MASTER, thank you for graciously answering my question. As well, @catorrina, I respect your views and opinions on my statement, as well as your response. It was, in my personal perspective, incorrect, but only to a degree. Wording is, in fact, important in a discussion. I personally do not see how my wording was offensive, but I can wholeheartedly understand how you might, given your response. So, I apologize.

However, my question stands strong. Comparing Neil Gaiman’s quote, to a capitalism related question, while it may seem relevant, it is not. There are countless works that leave “cliff hangers” on what could happen, after the core story has been resolved. The reason for this is sales, and advertising laws. If you create a story, be it game, anime, book, or any other form of media, your goal is to reach as many as possible, and hopefully garner repeat business. So thus, the formula includes a core story, with a possible overarching arc, to allow a continuation of a work. However, it is poor form to create half a work of a core story, yet market it as a whole. It’s the very same reason HBO continued the show Game of Thrones, despite George R. R. Martin not having kept up with his own work. Now, my rant, as it were, is no longer in relation to the original posts works, as my questions were answered and accepted as such. Given that @DUNGEON_MASTER had pointed out that I was, in fact, vastly incorrect regarding my assumption on “deception”. Although, my assumption, while incorrect, was not invalidated, as @DUNGEON_MASTER had confirmed the thread regarding one of the works had been deleted, thus making it impossible for me to simply answer my own questions by looking through the forums.

Now, as for my final point, an example. If you were to go to any outlet that sells a media of your choice (i.e. books, movies, tv, anime, mange, etc), and you were to purchase, say, a book. A nice 300 page book about whatever your preferred genre is. You go to read it, only to discover pages 200-300 are blank. Aside from the anxiety or curiousness of what happened, you would also wonder as to why you were sold a 300 page novel, yet only received 200 pages.

Anyways, my rant has extended way too long. I apologize for any offenses, yet I stand by my conviction, in spite of the toxicity of some of the responses. My question has been answered, I have been corrected, and I bid you adieu. @Havenstone, if you so see fit to ban me for my “transgressions”, suit yourself. I suppose there is nigh a thing I could do to stop you. I will, however, continue to be a fan of great works from CoG, never-the-less. Now, aside from that, I would humbly request this thread be closed, to detour further toxicity from any party, myself included, as well, that the question has been solved. For anyone who does intend to continue to respond, whether it be toxic or not, I apologize, but my feedback on this topic has ended here.

Thank you all for your time, have a wonderful day/night.

RDI

#20

See, this is in large the problem I have with this. You are not sold a, as you put it ‘300 page novel with only 200 pages’. You are sold full released stories (for only what, $3?) that are capable of being self-contained. There is the promise of further content, but not without further payment. Sabres of Infinity and Zombie Exodus are both Hosted Games with sequels released, and the promise of further content, but the reader is expected to pay for the sequels (and, for ZE, extra parts).

Finally, I would like to link you to our Rules, most notably this one:

Don’t ask when a game will be updated or released. Usually the author doesn’t know.
This includes asking WIP authors when they’re going to push an update or release more content.

The responses you see as hostile are because, in the eyes of most of us, you not only broke the rules, but your wording made you sound like you were deserving of a refund based off of the promise of sequel content. That is not, and will not be, the case. I will not ask for a refund of A Game of Thrones just because A Dream of Spring likely will never be released. I read and enjoyed Game of Thrones, even if the overarching plot will never wrap up. This kind of belief only hurts Choice of Games both as a company, and the authors within it. Making full fledged stories such as these takes a significant amount of time, and the games being sequels only adds to this because of so much old and new code that the author must work with.

Again, to use Guns of Infinity as an example, I believe it came out in March of 2016, a full year and a half after the open beta began, and likely close to two full years after work had been begun on it.

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#21

I think a step back needs to be taken. @ReDragonInc - I think the point has been hit on the head that the reason why you were met with hostility was that instead of politely asking, you did come across as being fairly aggressive. I read it as a demand about why the series aren’t complete yet and can you get a refund because you felt cheated by that (when a quick search of the forums would have shown that the works you asked about are in progress- both have been commented on by their authors within the last 3 weeks). If you didn’t mean it that way, that’s the unfortunate joy of text only, but it did sound that way to multiple people. Take a deep breath, recognise the misunderstanding, move on.

Unfortunately COG is an indie company and in the case of HG’s in particular, most authors are only writing part time, so things can take a lot of time to get completed. There is also the complicating factor that HG is a publishing platform. COG does NOT contract the HG authors to write complete series and they do not have complete ownership over the stories, so they cannot control when or if a series is completed and they cannot issue you a refund since monies have already been paid to both the app stores and to the author. Besides if a movie or book series isn’t completed, you wouldn’t walk into the store demanding that it refund you for it would you? (Or maybe you would. I wouldn’t. I think you have zero chance any way).

Sure I get it can be annoying as a reader, but it’s not unusual. I remember starting reading wheel of time a long, long time ago, but since the time between book releases started to get measured in years, and was looking like it may not even be finished in the end. I eventually stopped reading the series even though I enjoyed them. I plan to get around to reading the whole series again at some point when I get enough time to do so now that its done, but that brings me to the choice you have when purchasing a series anywhere (whether it is books, games or movies): 1) Buy the series as they come out recognising that there may be significant delays between books and enjoy them for what they are. Or 2) Don’t buy any incomplete series and wait until the set is complete before reading them. Personal choice but asking for refunds and demanding an explanation for release dates will get you the defensive response you’ve just experienced not just here but with many smaller companies.

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