Polls about COG, HG, and IF games

I like side quests, but doing them ALL? That seems OTT to me. And some games have quests that don’t much appeal to me (the Dark Brotherhood ones in Elder Scrolls).

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I base all in role playing a character my vampire assassin won’t certain do the Fighters guild or save the world or detain a civil war is giving profit.

so in the poll I have no response as I play neither of those ways.

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Yeah I’ve still got a ton of those side missions to do in all of Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim. No surprise I tend to play mage or spellsword elves, so I usually go for the mage quests and sometimes the fighter ones too and while I did enjoy the thieves guild in Oblivion I just couldn’t get into Skyrim’s iteration of it.

The one series where I am obsessive about doing the tons of side-missions would be the Jakuza series where those are often some of the most fun moments but those games are really well (voice) acted and translated too. Can’t heap enough praise on the Yakuza series translation because that is still where many Japanese games tend to fall flat.

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I have only played zero with Japanese voice and subtitles and I really loved side missions The entire game really. The writing is superb however I never ended it I have it in my play 4

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Many times, side quests are a way that can deliver lore, immersion-building elements and provide insight into NPC actions that are encountered during the main story-line without overwhelming and bogging down the gaming experience as a whole.

Take the Dark Brotherhood quests in Elder Scrolls for example – there is no absolute need to complete them but by doing so, the gamer can receive a lot of benefits from doing so. I found that by doing this set of quests that my understanding of the entire Elder Scroll universe was enriched and the motivations and actions of certain central NPC characters and factions became not only clearer but also more understandable.

While the side–questline itself may not be one that excited my interests, the results given as a result of pursuing it was very much appreciated.

As a designer of games, the entire purpose of side quests should be to enrich the experience of the gamer and reward their effort and time spent.

Side quests that reward deep dives into the game’s elements outside of the main scope by adding to that main scope in depth, understand and/or providing additional hooks for future immersion are essential to good game design.

Side quests that are just there to take up time or that serve no other purpose than give stat-mechanical boosts are poorly designed quests that are indicative of faulty design in the main quest-line to begin with.

I consider side quests as proposed by @Szaal to be more harmful than beneficial if they are just there for flavor tweaks and cosmetic purposes.

In my current CS game design, side quests for the MC aim to ensure the reader is allowed to explore more of the game-world that they find themselves immerssed in, enriching their understanding and providing additional insights not necessarily needed but which add hooks to grab them tighter into my game.

15 Likes

Side quest apart all you say (I agree with) Are key to develop and implement how our character see the world or society on the basis of self contained small scenes as in many cases that NPC’s aren’t as necessary plot wise that allows a wild variety of ways a Pc could use the player agency.
Being cruel, kind , destroy a family etc… Or even evolution from a good character to a more neutral is easier to feel organically at least as a role player using good side quests

Sadly modern development is more interested in fetching quests and grinding that create a healthy ecosystem of side missions

2 Likes

For context, I’ve been mulling over how would a side quest work/look like in a CS game. One point I’m especially obsessed at: side-quest as a means for NPC’s character development. But then, character development is probably that very important that you might as well put it into the main quest.

And there’s also that silly consideration of player/reader missing content for not doing side-quests (I think it’s silly as you shouldn’t restrict your creativity because of mechanical limits unless you’re really in a tight resource).

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if the player chooses actually actively not doing something they are not missing anything.
They are exercising their agency.

For instance, If the game is about being a mercenary. If my character is all for money I won’t choose side missions that are clearly tailored caring goodies saving cats even if there is no money involved.

No choosing that means my character can be ruthless and money-hungry freely and other thing

I can only comment on Oblivion and Skyrim. In Oblivion having been recruited after the Grey Prince basically committed suicide which the Dark Brotherhood considered murder, if I recall correctly the first 2 targets for the Dark Brotherhood deserved to die. I never progressed that storyline beyond the first 2 as target 3 did not deserve to die if I remember correctly. In Skyrim, the target of the quest that leads to being invited to join the Dark Brotherhood also deserved death, and the fact that it leads to the choice to destroy that branch of the Dark Brotherhood was an added bonus. Considering that both games began with the MC a prisoner and in Skyrim almost unjustly executed, my MC had little faith in the courts and was perfectly willing to administer justice personally. (In Skyrim as the Dragonborn, it seemed to my MC that such gave my MC a stronger claim to the imperial throne than anyone including the incumbent so on that grounds my MC was perfectly justified in acting as the true sovereign anyway. It was a shame the MC never got the chance to press the MC’s own claim by right of the Dragon blood.)

I loved the Mage Guild quest line in Oblivion and I enjoyed that more than the main quest line. The equivalent in Skyrim for the College of Winterhold was still something any of my mage MCs would do, but it was honestly a disgrace. Being “allowed” by a Psijic monk to assume leadership of that pathetic excuse for mages while the Psijic teleports in and out of the College of Winterhold at will while taking a priceless magical artifact with him! In Skyrim, to paraphrase the “Wheel of Time” series, I felt like a child playing with my parents’ toys.

As far as the Thieves Guild goes, I loved the Thieves Guild quest chain in Oblivion because there the Thieves Guild functions more like Robin Hood taking from the rich and protecting the poor, while emphasizing that they were not murderers like the Dark Brotherhood, and the final quest was truly sweet and touching. In Skyrim however, the Thieves Guild were scum bullying the poor where they could get away with it and tied to the Dark Brotherhood. My MC in Skyrim would have gladly exterminated the Skyrim Thieves Guild if given the chance.

The best existing example for side quests that comes to mind in my opinion is in @Lucid’s Lost Heir trilogy.

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Indeed, and the grey cowl is a curious and powerful artefact that would be intriguing even to my Altmer spellsword who otherwise isn’t particularly inclined to thievery and whole helping the downtrodden was nice too, though I suppose Mara will disagree there.
The Bal-molagmer thief subquests in Morrowind were some of the nicest too.

3 Likes

The hero can never be in power because the dragon break in Mundus happened In elder scrolls 2 Daggerfall. And determines how All games in franchise work and why people are so confused with the side quests since there.

Okay, how to explain this each hero recorded in an elder scrolls affect the spacetime all quests are made regardless of whether your hero does it or not.

There is a dense DENSE lore discussion several made canon that would change the perception of quests most casual have. The nocturnal cowl shows there is an entire story mode that adds hours of content playing with the paradoxes of lore.

For instance, all of you that have played oblivion. Cirodil is a jungle with tall trees in an eternal rain forest. Is a Jungle? Do you see a Jungle in Oblivion?

The shaping of reality and the. the cosmic event in Daggerfall changed the entire reality. ( The engine couldn’t handle jungle lol. So they made hell theory to support that)

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For some games , such as Baldur’s Gate 2 , the game had smartly develop a scenario where MC 's group need to perform side quest in order to advance to the main plot . MC’s group need to gather a large sum of money and hand it over to a Thieves guild in order for the guild to provide information and access to the next course og events.
Hence the multiple side quests are objective which we could gather money, and it is up to MC to decide which quest to fulfill as long as they gather enough money…
But for me, i will perform all of them, since logically thinking the future enemies are strong , i need to gain maximim experience to level up in order to well prepare for future fight, not to mention these quests contain valuable weapons or artifact that can help in the fight too.

Hence , even in real life advanture, gather enough strength for the future fights is always smart, think of the side quest as personal training

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well unless they are fedex quest . Those are boring…

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Why ?? If we have our friends around , imagine it is a good bonding time together, boring means we could chat more…Lol :-):sweat_smile:

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Oh yeah…

Eric dream dun dun dun

Eric: hey let’s make it a game! each take a different road and kill 50 wolfs! oh and you have 2h to do it! when done, come back to this starting area! Also…you get more point if you find a wolf that look like a pokemon or a pup! GO!
Companions: Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Reality : Kill 150 wolf for pelt . No, I aint gonna use them, now go get…
Hero : urgh…how many so far ?
Companion: oh I don’t know…I lost count around 10 I think…
Hero: My back hurt…and I think 2 of them bite me…can I have a potion ?
Companion: Burp…that was a potion ? Shit…I though it was booze!
Hero: DAMNIT! Now we have to go back and get more potions and we took this stupid quest cose we are BROKEEEE! what do we do ?
Companion: kill more wolf for more pelt…for more dinero ?
Hero: :unamused:

5min later

Companion is tied to a tree
Companion: I hate being the sidekick…
Hero: Shuttup and say ‘‘Baaaaa’’ already!

:sweat_smile:

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You see it as a meta gamer, as a player outside the game planning ahead knowing there will be bosses so you gather experience with no regard for if make sense for your character because you are focused on experience something the Pcin role doesn’t know what is it.

It is okay. However, not everybody plays with that mentality. I play as if were real, and for that Pc has goals phobias and don’t start to do whatever

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“One does not need to explain anything when one has access to CHIM :no_mouth:” - TES writers, probably.

Lol. In all seriousness though, making sense of TES lore is like trying to fully understand quantum mechanics. It sort of works on paper, yet becomes incomprehensible in mind. I usually toss out all the dragon break nonsense and enjoy every elder scrolls game in their own vacuum bubble, separately.

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I just do love nonsense paradox and I love Daggerfall. A example of a game you simply can’t do all side missions except for people want to burn like 25 years in the game

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You have will of iron then, because I don’t think I finished that game the only time I played it. Granted it was after Morrowind came out, but it felt so underwhelming. Especially dungeons. Ugh, just remembering it. Those things can give dungeons of vanilla oblivion a run for its money :upside_down_face:

I agree with your point too Mara…

However, even assuming in a realistic role, adventuring and solving multiple quest is sort of my goal as well…

In a role as a knight, it is only natural the knight seeking and attempting to challenge himself and help as many people as possible , like in the Warhammer universe, the Quest Knight of Bretonnia constantly seeking difficult quest by travelling to many places in order to prove to the Lady of the Lake he is worthy as her champion, for a potential future king of Bretonnia, he must start as a Quest knight before the Lady endorses him as the king…

As a wizard, travelling to multiple places is a way to seek knowledge beyond one’s comfort zone, a wizard is always obssesed by potential artifact or lost lore, as well.as forbidden knowledge… hence in order to become an Archmage, the wizard will logically tend to wander into uncharted territory as much as possible…

As a rogue, what better ways to gain more wealth to satisfy a rogue’s greed by seeking as many places as possible?

Hence , i think as a Knight, wizard and Rogue … it is naturally logical for them to seek adventure and side quest as much as possible

1 Like