I don’t think I’ll ever get how people can still want to romance Leon later in AMR.
What he does to the MC at the end of book one is another level of fucked up if they romanced him.
Like, who would go back to a relationship with someone who had them burned alive?
The read I get from Leon after having you executed is that, as far as he knew (and due to you kinda being kill-cursed into silence, it’s not like you could explain yourself), he was doing what had to be done - for no good reason (that he was aware of), you flew off the handle and murdered a major religious figure in cold blood. Whatever he felt about it personally, as the newly crowned king fresh out of a war, there was no way his people would let him get away with NOT punishing you. And then when news came out of what your intentions really were, it wrecked him because he realized way too late that he made a mistake. I don’t feel like he would’ve locked himself in his chambers if he didn’t feel guilty about putting you to the torch after the news came down.
I could be wildly off-key about this, but that’s always been how I’ve seen the situation whenever I read the story. If you had any way at all of safely communicating to Leon that your intentions were preserving the safety of the kingdom, he probably would’ve, if nothing else, had your sentence drastically reduced from execution to, I dunno, imprisonment for X number of years or something instead to appease the masses.
Ilya and Saine don’t just give up on you and sentence you to death.
Or punch you in the face after refusing to believe you had a reason for what you did.
From how I see it, in the end Leon just doesn’t trust you, and so doesn’t put in the effort to keep you alive either.
Ilya and Saine also don’t wear the crown.
They both hold political power and are respected for their roles, yes, but Leon is the king. He is sworn to govern and protect his people, and kings are also oftentimes beholden to the authority of churches. Ever heard of the Sword of Damocles? The story goes that this guy, Damocles, wanted the luxuries a king gets, so the king gave him the crown for a day, on the condition that he remain on the throne with a sword tied by a single thread directly over his head. As the minutes ticked by, the sword came slowly more and more loose, until Damocles finally lost his nerve and begged the king to take the crown back. The lesson there is that kings have to deal with a lot more stress than people realize at first glance, regardless of how rich their lives seem.
This is undoubtedly true here, as well. There was a time when you were all starry-eyed mercs living the adventuring life, but those days are behind you now. You have responsibilities to the royal court, and the people of the kingdom besides. Ilya and Saine can afford to give you the benefit of the doubt, because refusing to mete out harsh punishment like the church wants won’t blow up tremendously in their faces - and, in fact, when Ilya gets caught trying to break you out of prison (if you go the route that gets her caught), the worst that happens to her is that she’s forcibly escorted out. Ilya, in particular, knowing a bit about magic herself, would probably buy that you had no choice, if you were at all able to tell her that. Saine likes to believe the best in people, that’s just his nature (prior to your execution).
Leon doesn’t have this luxury. He had no choice but to take the throne, he doesn’t get to just be good ol’ Leon, your buddy, your pal, anymore. And besides, imagine holding the highest political power in your homeland, second only to the local religion, and you’re also a beloved war hero and savior of your people, and then out of nowhere, your friend and comrade who fought at your side time and time again just up and mercs the resident pope-figure.
How would the people react? Those you call your closest allies are suddenly going around killing important people, people who - whatever their crimes - probably provide stability to many within the kingdom. What kind of message does that send? Is another war on the horizon? You already had to fight off one snake in your midst, is this friend of yours also a saboteur in disguise?
How would your political detractors react? The so-called “hero king” has friends who spill blood for, what, some blind ambitions that they’re trying to keep quiet about? And it was the rather powerful mage who seems like they have secrets they prefer to keep, no less. The mage who seemingly just showed up out of the blue and schmoozed their way into the hero king’s confidence. Hmm. Interesting.
How would the church react? One of your allies just commit a treason one step down from defying the heavens, are you going to do something about it, or do they need to rethink whether you deserve to wear that crown? Are you a faithful servant of the gods, or aren’t you?
And how would you react, most importantly? You think you know someone, and then they go and commit an atrocity, and no amount of trying to get them to talk will make them give you something, anything, any kind of explanation at all about why they did what they did. This person is your friend, comrade and confidant, and they won’t say anything. The most they give you, if you’re lucky, is that they had their reasons. That’s a crap excuse, and you both know it. Or, worse, they act like they were proud of what they did, and are now behaving like a complete villain, and oh how fooled they had you, thinking they were ever the good guy~
It doesn’t matter that the truth is that they’re inextricably bound to silence and can’t talk on pain of death. It doesn’t matter that they’re just playing up an act to make you feel less bad about giving them the axe, because they know they can’t talk their way out of this one. They can’t tell you that, so you don’t hear it. What matters, then, is what you know based on the information you have, and that information says that your friend and comrade just went insane, and now it’s your job to deal with it.
Yeah, Leon probably doesn’t trust the MC anymore - it’s not like he’s been given good reason to do so. Trusting you lead to you killing a major religious figure of the kingdom under the guise of being off on some private business.
If I were in Leon’s place, I’d be looking a bit less warmly at this friend of mine, too. And say I did buy that they had reasons they seemingly couldn’t talk about - if for no other reason than the fact that they just made my life a living hell because now I’ve got the church breathing down my neck for vengeance, my opponents using this atrocity to sling mud at my name, and the people wondering if I’m gonna step up and protect them from this new evil, I’d probably crack this friend of mine across the jaw, myself, their reasons be damned.
In my mind, Leon is not at fault for his actions. If anything, he’s well within his right to act as he did, because it’s not like he was afforded any other perspective to consider.
How much time do you think a wounded church looking for vengeance would afford Leon, in this case? The local spymaster has had you pegged as a wolf in sheep’s clothing since the very start of the war, and as far as she’s concerned, you’ve just proven it. The woman who could have called off the hounds is also the woman you killed. Any other ranking figure of authority in the church probably believes as the spymaster does, that you’re a traitor and need to die. If Leon tried to beg for time to look into things, that might make him look like he’s trying to get you off the hook for your crime, which might provoke the church to take matters into their own hands.
Plus, again: The public. Leon’s opponents. Both parties are eagerly awaiting his next move. If he suddenly stalls for time to investigate your actions, his opponents will see that as proof of corruption, and the people will see it as either you having the king wrapped around your little finger, or the king being a tyrant who lets his friends literally get away with murder.
I feel like time is yet another luxury Leon really didn’t have, here.
Once again: Ilya and Saine do not wear the crown. Their words don’t carry the same weight as the king, or the suspect, themselves, would. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable, especially when the eyewitnesses didn’t witness anything and are trying to beg for your life on the basis of, “they’re our friend, they wouldn’t just do this!” In the absence of any hard evidence exonerating you, the claims of a witness MUST be dependable, and theirs simply are not, no matter how loved and respected they are.
More to the point, Ilya and Saine? Also former comrades of Leon’s. And yours. Bad enough if the king acts in support of you, but your two other companions as well? That’s corruption all the way down, then. You’ve wormed your way into all three of their heads, they can no longer be trusted to make the right call.
And as for Leon not trying: The guy may not be the best with politics, but he knows his way around a fight, and likely knows when it’s a fight he can’t possibly win. There’s no honor in throwing yourself at a wall that won’t break. He has no evidence, anybody who could speak up for you could just as easily be assumed to be accomplices of yours, or they’re dead and can’t say anything, you won’t even tell him you’re innocent, and under his watch, you were allowed to commit an unspeakable act, which he had a duty, as king, to do everything in his power to prevent. The deck isn’t just stacked against him, the guy may as well be sitting at the poker table with no chips to deal in with.
There’s “not trying,” and then there’s, “would accomplish nothing by trying.”
Or Exile…which is also an option.
Urgh, that reminds me of NWN1…damned mass 
while it maybe true, it is ridiculous how quickly he executed you.
That is actually his greatest offence. He could’ve stalled for time and investigate. Instead, he played in the enemy’s hands…
He didn’t even TRY! we can guess all we want. But actions speak louders, and one can never know if you succeed or fail until you fucking try! And he never did!
Where the odds against him? Sure. Does that mean one shouldn’t try? Nope. You still try! because you never know! And he wasn’t alone, he had the others 2 on his team to help out! Come on.
Good to see another Leon-exonerator, we seem to be few.
Investigate what? MC didn’t tell anybody where he disappeared off to right before he murdered the Saintess. It’s obvious what the MC did. As near as I can tell, no magic exists which could expose the MC’s collar. Any check for mind control magic won’t come up positive because the MC chose to kill the Saintess of his own free will. What leads does Leon have to investigate? Investigation is done when facts are in dispute, and from Leon’s POV…they aren’t.
Which leaves everyone expecting him to just stall for time…indefinitely…for no reason save the meta-knowledge which we have and he does not.
Good points from a pragmatic perspective.
Completely shitty to choose the quickest, most convenient way to deal with someone you proclaim a friend or lover.
You’re esentially telling me that Leon killed us quickly because he’s a spineless king who caves in to the public and the church’s pressure.
Regardless, I think we’re on different wavelengths here and neither of us is going to convince the other.
You’re probably right, and I accept that. I’ve got my reasons for my stance, and others have their reasons for theirs. Sometimes, it’s simply a difference of perspective, and there’s not much that can be done to meet in the middle unless one side decides to budge, and if both sides feel they’re in the right, that budge isn’t happening.
However:
I mean, Leon might be able to ignore the public, but he would be a madman to defy the church, especially since it was one of his own inner circle who did the deed. Like as not, the execution being jumped to so quickly was less his call and more, again, the demands of a recently victimized church looking for blood. I have a hard time believing Leon would have willingly gone that route without someone pushing him from behind.
But again, that’s what I believe, and we’ve established that we probably believe two very different things.
Yup, as @Zyrios and @goldblue10 said it, I agree with them, rather than became (edited) too emotional and throw away your ability to think and hate on Leon without understanding his position.
I hope this post doesn’t revolves into a an heated arguments on Leon all over again like it happens on the AMR post.
Edit: There. I edited it. Bye.
I mean, you just called people who disagree with you “sheep of emotion”.
I imagine a mod will step in if that starts to happen. This is hardly the first time conversations have gotten too heated in here, and I’m beginning to understand that AMR is a rather dicey topic of discussion, the more it gets… well, discussed.
It actually threw me into a small migraine, putting that much thought into my argument. XD
Then edit your post, also nobody ‘Hated’ on Leon. Peoples get upset and that is a natural reaction. Some romanced him and didn’t think he would react the way he did, which speaks to the writer’s talent. And tell us there is much more in store before this game gonna end.
Understanding his position does not equal accepting it. I can understand where he is coming from, and all the hurdles @Zyrios pointed out (Btw, good job), don’t mean I agree or accept them.
Edit: That’s logic for you! And then those who debates are like ‘Why you rely on your feelings?! Use Logic!’’ and I’m like ‘My head hurt when I use Logic, I only get butthurt with feelings!’ 
I want to kill him in a painful way 
Maybe there were rational reasons and he had no choice… blah, blah blah… but that doesn’t change the fact MC suffered and died hated by those they saved. I can’t imagine going back to this man and having romantic relationship with him later as if nothing happened. He. Burned. MC. Alive. There are things that I can’t forgive ROs.
However, I chose romance with him (MC even wrote fucking love letter to him ) For more drama 
I think that Leon’s actions are totally understandable from a pragmatic view, and honestly even from his own side: the mage horribly betrayed his trust, which was already kind of shaky, murdered a major religious figure with no explanation, and he was under immense pressure from outside forces.
But just because his actions are understandable, maybe even reasonable, to both us and himself, that doesn’t mean that they have to be forgiven. Especially not by the mage, who sacrificed so much (we know using their Phantasma hurt them horribly) for Param, and who either considered Leon their greatest friend or their partner. The mage has every right to feel hurt, angry, or to be completely unwilling to talk to him ever again, particularly because they were the one who hurt themself for the cause Leon was fighting for, and who, in the end, actually died for it.
But yeah!! In the end, they’re characters in a really neat story and I’m honestly kind of thrilled that people have such divided opinions on them, it’s interesting to read! 
Please don’t turn “Hated ROs” thread into “A Mage Reborn” thread 2: electric boogaloo
I kind of forgot we were in hated ROs thread… I thought I was still in the AMR thread. 
But my opinion is pretty much the same as Zyrios’ although I never romanced Leon so I don’t have to deal with any romantic spite. I can understand why he did it, don’t quite agree with it though or know what I want to do with him. Simply isn’t an easy decision for me, sure you could kill him and get revenge or never speak to him again, both options are more than likely possible but I want to know what he’d say in seeing us again. I don’t know… I’m angry at him but there’s also logic holding me back so, I’ll figure it out.
And here I am, still trying to talk myself into playing AMR in the hopes I’ll end up with Leon as a new “most liked” RO instead of a “most disliked” one… can’t figure out whether I’m in for love or severe annoyance (he punches you? oy)… 
I understand why Leon put MC on a pyre, but that doesn’t mean he wont enjoy same treatment when story goes that far.
Leon had his reasons, and so does an MC who never forgives him for it. I guess from a roleplaying perspective it’s just more interesting to have that kind of angst between him and MC; you would have to be a straight-up saint to be able to look past what he did. When Leon meets MC again, maybe he will prove he deserves that forgiveness.
