Even if I consider Rade, the villain of the story he is absolutely right here. Rade murdered his king, rebelled against another one and slain him in the battelfied, there is absolutely no coming back.
Even if Elya would have (partially), honored the request made by Rade, nothing prevent her to hire some assassin to dispose of Mozoroff. Like excatly nothing forbide her, to ignore the Marshall attempt to diplomatically resolve the conflict, and decide to end it with fire and steel, after all she is the Queen, she has the final say, not the Marshall.
So yeah, here Rade was absolutely correct.
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How’s this any worse from the current situation where Elya is already actively working on murdering Rade? Trading certainty for possibility seems like an improvement, all things considered. Worst case, Rade doesn’t gain anything, but the veterans i.e. people this is supposedly all about, do. He doesn’t take the deal because regardless of what he claims he’s prioritizing himself, not the people he supposedly cares about oh so much.
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I don’t like Rade, and yes I knew he is a selfish prick, but regarding this argument I’m willing to play devil advocate :The marshall made a proposal, that s/he had no authority to make, at end Elya has the final word. Even then Elya has no reason to accept this proposal:not only because Rade killed her brother and father, but also becasue realistically accepting would be a massive big L for House Steyr, and even settle a dangerous precedent(“it’s perfectly fine to kill two kings, WE Styr wouldn’t punish any kingslayer, and even accept their demand because reason”). It’s even worse considering that Elya is a new ruler, a woman in a sexist setting, and has a very angry and stupid brother alive seething because he didn’t get the crown, and could be used by the nobility against her.
So yeah, once somoene goes too far, there is realistically no turning back.
Dunno, living and being paranoid every day of your life it’s not great or healthy, and could/should still get you killed. Then it’s not like Elya/Marshall will always beat Rade, considering that Ending 1/4 is a thing.
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I’d argue that Ending 1 actually shows that even if Rade “wins”, ultimately he still loses. Spending years on further warring with other similarly greedy competitors only to get crossbow bolt to the head for all that trouble, i don’t think it can be considered as anything but a big L in the end.
As for the devil advocate thing. That’s, again, considering things purely from the point of what’s good for Rade personally, and not the people he’s supposedly championing with his cause. If Rade was genuinely interested in wellbeing of his veterans, then the offer to get them what they deserved, even at personal expense, as opposed to throwing them in a meat grinder so that Rade can call himself king… is a considerably better option. That he doesn’t take it simply lays his actual priorities bare.
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A) Fair point about ending 1/4.
B)Also i never claimed Rade was selfless, and was doing things for other people. I only claimed that the “Elya will honor Sobik’s promise” was illogical, and not an option that both Elya and Rade could afford to take. Even if Rade was very selfless, and he is NOT, it’s still understandble why he would refuse to risk his life.
At end of the day the true victim are the veteran : used by Sobik, not getting appreciated by their own countrymen, used again this time by Rade and then put to sword by the Marshall’s forces.
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I suspect that is the only sentiment everyone on this thread can agree on.
On an unrelated note @Bacondoneright does the Church in this world have more in common with the Catholic or Orthodox Churches?
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Thats a interesting thought and though we havent seen to much yet concerning the church… at the moment im leaning more to the former but for all i know it could be and is likely both lol.
What im curious about is who the Redeemer is? Is he just Jesus Christ or a sort of failed Prophet? Is it even a he?
For all we know that could be very well just a presumption on Rade’s part, if not outright lie to get the Marshal on his side with a sob story.
There’s a possibility of that. But I can say for sure that for now this nothing more than a theory born out of bias.
Throughout the game Rade explicitly shows that he has no interest in actually marrying Elya
It not like it’s shown he isn’t interested in marrying Elya, it’s just that his interest in her isn’t really shown.
Obren stays with the Marshall out of sense of self-preservation.
As I said, as long as MC keeps on winning, Obren in particular and “pro”-Usurper nobility in general will stay in line.
Also, we are getting a bit off-topic. My original point was that the only people the Marshal trusts even before becoming the Usurper are Darin (always), Elya (…), and romanced Obren/Lada/Milon.
The Marshal trusts in (not romanced) Obren’s skills and appreciates his company to an extent, but not necessarily trusts him as a person.
Or, again, that might be just what the Marshal comes to think
Once again, the Usurper is fully assured in Darin’s loyalty, therefore still trusting him. Whatever this trust is misplaced or not is beyond the topic of this discussion (“the Usurper no longer trusts anyone”).
And that was the entire point, that disloyal Marshal no longer has the comfort of having people they can really trust.
Ending 3 Marshal still has full trust in Darin and whoever s/he romanced.
He could very well demand such guarantee as part of the deal.
That’s a…. very naïve suggestion.
Sobik felt quite comfortable telling Rade the War Hero to scram, what is stopping Elya to break whatever deal she has with Rade the Kingslayer? Will anyone shed any tears for the man guilty of regicide and slaughtering a significant chunk of Kanton’s nobility?
This is known as “sunk cost fallacy” and it’s called fallacy for a good reason.
There’s nothing fallacious about this.
At that moment, Rade is objectively very close to victory. All he has to do is to sacrifice a little bit more to achieve everything he ever wanted… why would he stop there of all times?
If Rade thinks his victory is inevitable then he’s deluding himself, as evidenced by the game itself.
“Why take such unnecessary risks when victory SEEMS to be a question of “when” rather than “if”?”
And Rade does manage to achieve his (short-lived) victory in Ending 1. Also, he remains in a relatively favourable position in the endings where Loyalists fail to achieve victory in the final battle.
If Rade was genuinely interested in wellbeing of his veterans, then the offer to get them what they deserved, even at personal expense, as opposed to throwing them in a meat grinder so that Rade can call himself king… is a considerably better option. That he doesn’t take it simply lays his actual priorities bare.
If Elya was genuinely interested in wellbeing of her subjects, then to offer herself to Rade, even at personal expense, instead of throwing the lives of her people away so that she can avenge her family and call herself queen… is a considerably better option. That she doesn’t do it simply lays her actual priorities bare.
Elya is an unrepentant villain confirmed.
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The Usurper MC will basically be trying to convince the nobles they are the least bad of a set of wretched options rather than being someone they are enthusiastic supporting.
Winning battles will be the most important thing, but getting the whole Church to embrace their claim will be hugely important too, which will involve major concessions.
Usurper MC is probably going to have to focus on making sure their enemies do not combine against them in the beginning and slowly whittle them down and strike while they are divided. It’s going to be a very long war for them that will leave much of the country a shattered wreck.
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No, we get explicit insight into Rade’s thoughts on this matter – he wants to simply kill Elya, to get her out of his way. We also get a confirmation in Ending 1:
The Stiedry queen was defeated right after the Marshal was slain. She was disposed of quickly. It was the same for the prince, King Sobik's son. He suffered an unfortunate "accident" shortly after reaching Wrido.
The risk they presented was simply too great. No other claimants can be alive to oppose him.
It was never about the marriage.
The simple fact that Elya isn’t Sobik and, if anything, has shows to act in manner quite opposite to her father? That she might value lives of her subjects more than petty, personal revenge?
No, he isn’t. Objectively he can’t take the capital, can’t catch his opponent despite multiple attempts, can’t stop them from getting reinforcements and ultimately only gets an actual victory in very narrow subset of outcomes (and even then his “victory” is short lived) All his scheming can very easily end in mere stalemate, failure, or getting outplayed and starved out with nothing to show for it. There’s nothing very close to victory about his situation.
I don’t know what the bold text is supposed to signify here. It doesn’t contradict the idea Rade is simply delusional about his odds. But you don’t seem to share this view because you’ve just argued that no, he absolutely wasn’t.
The offer Rade received from the Marshal was pretty much along these lines. Or at least a start of such possibility. Rade could’ve brought his alleged grievances with Sobik to Elya. It wouldn’t exactly cost him much to actually find out what she’d have to say about it. But instead, he’s rejected it outright.
A nice try, but there’s only one villain here: a traitorous duke with no qualms to throw the people he’s supposedly championing under the bus for his personal gain.
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I’d point out that a successful usurpation, like Henry IV deposing Richard II and replacing him can still leave big problems down the line for the usurper’s descendants.
And Henry IV had a much better claim than Rade or the MC do.
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Also for Henry himself, who hasn’t exactly had rebellion-free reign.
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Also, as of Chapter 3, specifically when the Marshal offers to negotiate with Rade, Elya is firmly mired in the depression stage of grief (people often skip around the first four stages. It is Chapter 4 when she moves into the anger stage), and her highest possible Strength at this time is 2. She has not yet become the woman who can face grasping barons, bloodthirsty knights, assembled armies, corrupt archbishops, and skeptical nobles without losing an inch of ground or an iota of nerve. As callous as it sounds, Rade would have extremely favorable conditions to negotiate with her, if he went to the negotiation table in Chapter 3 when the Marshal offered.
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I’m honestly tired of arguing about something that has absolutely nothing to do with what was originally discussed:
- The Usurper has no one left to trust
- The Usurper will develop some sort of anger issues (because that is what the “bad guys” do), which will prove to be very bad for his mental health
- The Usurper is in a worse place mentally than he was as the Marshal due to points 1) and 2)
- The Usurper is a villain since he’s exactly the same as Rade, the villain of the story;
I believe it’s high time to get back on track.
Since you’ve silently conceded the other points, let us focus on the one that remains: the Usurper being a villain not much unlike Rade.
I do not really agree with anything you said about Rade, but, for the sake of the argument, I’m willing to accept your truth as the Truth.
Rade the Mad started his rebellion for no reason (his claims about being deceived by Sobik cannot be trusted), he never intended to marry Elya and wanted her gone from the very beginning, and he doesn’t care about anything or anyone but himself… And with that, you’ve made all the arguments for me.
With the exception of being traitors to the Crown, the Butcher and the Usurper are nothing alike.
Rade, in your opinion, is lying about his reasons for the rebellion. Sobik never really deceived or slighted him, yet Rade rebelled anyway for he’s just that power-hungry and evil. Or maybe Rade is just incredibly stupid and somehow misunderstood Sobik. Whatever, it doesn’t really matter.
What matters is that, in contrast to Rade, the Marshal has very good (albeit, not the most rational) reasons for his betrayal. The Stierdy(?) took everything from MC and have turned his/her life into living hell. When given the chance to take back everything that was stolen, it’s only natural the Marshal took it. And there’s nothing inherently evil about it.
Rade (supposedly) wanted Elya gone from the very beginning, it took MC the entire book to decide to overthrow Elya and even then the Marshal does so only because an opportunity of a lifetime appeared before him/her. More importantly, unlike Rade, the Marshal doesn’t murder any members of the royal family sans Vedran, but even then his ultimate fate is left up to the player.
While it would be great if the Usurper did a 180° on the whole “woe is me, I’m sending boys, the poor, innocent boys to the slaughter!” business and began seeing the things the way Rade does, it seems very unlikely.
Finally, if the Usurper manages to have him/herself “rehonoured”, s/he will become the most legitimate pretender to the throne. Even more so than Elya. Especially true for the male Marshal.
Rade has exactly zero legitimacy without marrying Elya.
In short, even if Rade is a “villain”, since the Usurper is nothing like him, you can’t argue that the latter is evil because he exactly the same as the former.
You could, of course, argue that the Ending 3 Marshal is a villain in his own right, but that would have nothing to do with your original statement.
Anyone got a guide to I, the Forgotten One? One that has victories in every battle and romance?
There are many on the main release thread, specifically for the final battle and achieving certain endings. However, a consolidated guide-only thread is a very good idea.
Or just a masterpost with links to all guides.
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Why even fight if not to rule? Baby sis can sleep in a dark room in the meantime.
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Bacon, what’s the meat? Will there be more branching for book 2?
That’s a convenient strawman, but i’ve never claimed Rade started his rebellion for no reason. His reason is, imo, simply desire to seize royal power which he convinced himself he deserves after years of service to the crown, that was in his view not sufficiently rewarded. He thinks he deserves the crown more than people who are the actual rulers, because these people didn’t do a fraction of what he’s done.
And in this, he and the usurper Marshal are very much alike.
Rade wanted Elya gone from the moment he actually took action, but he’s spent literal years i.e. far more than a book worth of time before he’s actually arrived to this decision of overthrowing the king.
Leaving aside the Marshal’s actions are explicitly factors which potentially drive Mira to suicide, the book ends immediately after the coup. It remains to be seen how long it will take the usurper to actually murder the remaining members of the royal family – from the comments of some players in this thread, they can hardly wait for this opportunity to be handed to them.
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