looks good, boxer rebellion sounds good
Historical Game Ideas - Mostly pitches for games with some games on the cusp of being a 'Work in Progress'
It’s just a suggestion, but I think it would be a great idea to implement. Similar to SoI and GoI, having a map of China would be able to give the player a better feel for the geopolitical spectrum that they are in, and adds a further sense of realism.
That being said, the map, and the borders that China shares with other world powers, would change depending on the decisions you take, or the governmental npc’s at the very top. Having options in the stats that show trade routes, population numbers, and the people, etc, would be a fantastic idea. Symbolizing military armies on a terrain map similar to how Guns of Infinity did it would also be a nice touch, assuming you’ll allow the player the opportunity to command armies
I’d love to get a proper responsive map; I don’t have the technical knowhow to implement that on choicescript… But yes, a proper interface would be helpful because there is a lot going on. I’ll look into it though.
Let me ponder how it is done in Infinity. It might be doable as there are only a few points of departure in history; it would be nice to see the European spheres of influence expand in China like parasites on a host.
Maps: I contemplated the maps a little further. I think I could download a blank map, and make variations with a code assigned to each map, and have the map uploaded depending on how events i’m already tracking occurred to account for borders. I have no experience with editing maps though so I’m going to put it on the back burner.
I roughly calculate that there are by from 1835 to 1870, there are 24 variations on the border of China that would reflect changes to the story.
I think there is a way to make a more responsive less labor intensive map in the stats menu but i’ll have to think it over.
I quite like the Iroquois idead
I admit the Qing Chinese idea sounds the most interesting, haven’t had a chance to check out the demo but it’s a promising concept. Definitely ambitious though!
For the maps, I can envisage 3 of the top off my head (Pre-Opium War, First Opium War concessions, Taiping Rebellion). Would the majority of them just be variations on the concessions? You could leave those as a list instead of as maps (and foreign influence as a metric). Or at least the important ones on the map only - Macau, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Tianjin etc
It might be more work, but perhaps a “peaceful” route where the opium gets stopped (potentially where Hong Kong gets leased off, and opening up a route where European training of the Qing armies come in early)? My reading of the First Opium War (admittedly not that thorough) was that there was generally a disconnect between Chinese and European authorities which did not help the situation and that there might have been a slight possibility that war might have been avoided.
Eventually Charles Elliot (Chief Superintendent of British Trade in China) was willing to hand over the opium, but repeated incidents over sovereignty and who got to try disorderly sailors was what set the war off (including a bit where British sailors who were arrested by the Chinese were flogged, and it was the flogging thing that was taken offense especially). My understanding’s been that the independent merchants kicked it off and that in general both London and the Company was uninterested in a war at that time (iirc, the Whig government was a bit impotent at the time, and the Company was somewhat trying to stop the smuggling, but later got on board with the war thing).
I’d just like to come here and say that I loved the Tudor game, and from what I’ve seen of the Qing Collapse, I already sympathise with the Chinese, and I (sadly) only have rudimentary knowledge about the Qing Empire, the Opium Wars and the Boxer Rebellion, so hopefully reading and playing this will be a both fun and educational experience.
I’d also like that eventually the Iroquois and Early Christianity games both get done. The Iliad and the Canadian politics games both don’t terribly interest me, but I’ll give them a try for sure
Thanks; I’m working on the Qing game. I should get a Part 1 done. Then I’ll switch it up for the Iroquois or Christianity one and go back for the Qing Part II game.
Personally, I like the Illiad first and then the Qing Dynasty. The Christianity idea seems OK depending on how you create it since a lot of games are already related to it. The Canada and Iroquis ones seem a bit less well known, but could be unique if you do it right. The Illiad is interesting because most Greek Mythology games explore like the Gods and demigods, but this one takes you through an actual story from the time. The Qing Dynasty one is also interesting because not many games take place in an Asian setting, so it has the potential to be very fascinating.
Personally, I would love an early Christianity C.o.G. game.
Hildegard von Bingen is a person and saint I am most interested in. And if/when the time comes I would love to be of help with it. Though I doubt she would be of importance to the game since she is from 1098 - 1179, thus not exactly in the early stages.
I would also be willing to help with the history aspect, though it would be helpful to know how I could help you best.
A game where you can run a monastery sounds really neat; a fun twist on the militaristic oriented themes mostly associated with medieval period. I’ll mull this over.
Giirrrrllll I am all about the insane of the early church and saints. Find the recommendation for that would be the MC be founder of theological idea. Gain following in different part of society. You make it damn interesting game. How early are we talking here right at the age of the apostle or prior to the persecutions of Diocletian
If your are doing taiping Rebellion this very important but little white devil Frederick Townsend Ward the founder Victorious Army.
Early Christianity as in Acts of the Apostles.
And blast, I’ve mostly written up the Taiping rebellion and haven’t written anything about the Victorious army. I might need to backtrack and do that.
I love what you do but our characters in all your games my friend feels so abstract I wonder if you can do little things to allow us to be more of their skin. I love how the Chinese one is a generational saga fall in the family.
Characters and Abstraction: I’m going to get a demo on the Chinese on complete… It is abstract. Once the demo is complete, I’ll see what flesh I can tag onto the bones of the game which includes more character development.
Reservation: I’m pretty sure proper character-based writers don’t think up a plot, and then throw in characters after… So it might not be the best way to go about it. I’ll mull it over.
In mild defense: The abstraction makes it easier to write for me, which means I’ll get more done by keeping it abstract.
3 IDEAS FOR FLESH-ON-THE-BONES IN THE QIING GAME
Side quests - I’m thinking of keeping the core game abstract, but trying my hand at individual short-story side quests that have more emotional stakes. This seems containable and easier to manage.
Enemy: Have an enemy right from the beginning. If you chose reform, he chooses conservatism. This shouldn’t be too hard to tag on. Your enemy will compete for prestige and shifting China. Cazarosta is a terrific enemy in the Infinity games that elevates the game… I don’t think I can just tag a the a character like that on though. He is integral, not an add on. So to do well, it will take some work.
People Management - I spent a few hours already thinking of implementing a people management part of the game. It would work like this, There would 3-4 General, 3-4 administrators, several spouse-options and foreign correspondents you would work with as a team. On an abstract level, this is like a puzzle, seeing what pieces fit and what combos can really work well together. This would be a lot of work, and require a lot of testing, to do properly. I’m not sure if half-measures are worth it (choosing characters might be tedious) but I’ll try drafting it for a week and see what it looks like. The historical inspiration for the people-management system would be the cadre of personnel that surrounded Mao during the revolution and civil war.
By the End of the Summer, I’ll try to have all of these ideas partially implemented.
A very little if not mine or suggestion we can know our characters personal finances and State rank in the imperial system etc. Maybe you can take the game off they’re going through the exam hell. Everything you just suggested previous post. I love!
Asides from the Ever Victorious Army, will the sheer cost of the Taiping Rebellion be mentioned too? Asides from the famine that resulted afterwards, the Imperial forces were also quite violent in their reprisals afterwards, if I recall correctly.
For an opponent, I think it would be an interesting aspect, but it would be jarring if they just flip-flop from playthrough to playthrough. Someone who’s more consistent in their views might be a better character, and not just a plot device (I guess?). For instance, in opposing MC’s reforms, he’s be opposing the introduction of dangerous barbarian influences. If the MC’s conservative, then he’s opposing the MC who is unvirtuous, self-serving and does not follow the tenets of Confucianism etc. Of course the enemy could be as pragmatic as any player, but I’d think there’d have to be more than just the enemy seeing the MC as “just” another opponent.
For the people management bit, I can see it could be open to criticisms of lack of character development or overcomplication. Could you perhaps have, instead of multiple generals/staffers under the MC, just one of each category who then subdelegates? Their efficiency would be dependent upon their relationship with the MC, perhaps? To give the player a bit more agency they could have a right-hand man. With the Mao analogy, the MC’s Zhou Enlai.
While an advanced people management system would definitely add a new aspect, my personal opinion is that Choicescript is a bit too clunky for it to be properly integrated.
I’m mulling over the people-management; I’ll try a demo on one of the side missions…
I am concerned the relative rewards vs complications might not be worth it.
I like the character having their own Zhou Enlai.
And for rivals, I was contemplating a flip-flop-automaton, but I think you’re right, I need to draft characters who will be “activated-antagonized” in response to the MC.
I love the illiad so I think the illiad one would be really interesting. It’s be cool to be able to avert some of the deaths or the outcome of the war.
We have changed how we handle interest check threads. If you’d like to continue talking about this game, you can do so in the interest check thread, or you can wait until the author has a full demo ready.