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Several people here said that they don’t like it when the MC is in a position of a fully passive victim who doesn’t fight back. I personally don’t mind that at all, I would be happy to play as such character. I just need a well-thought-out and believable reason of why my character is like that. Another thing I noticed that some people here are against is physical abuse. I have to admit, physical abuse is one of my favourite parts of unhealthy relationship. I probably don’t have any limits when it comes to unhealthy relationship – the messier, the merrier.

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I think if the author is fine writing unhealthy relationship, the mc building need to be comprehensive enough that we could be the passive party or the abusive party instead

And I do like physical abuse as in the ro maaybe slice my achilles so I couldn’t escape or smth, but if they punch me because they’re in a bad mood and drunk kinda situation, then I’m out haha

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Oh I adore unhealthy fantasy romances, so much so my best friend teases me over it every chance she gets. I am surprised that as I write my own IF, that I am not writing one in myself. Probably because it would be too self indulgent lol, also because I don’t think it fits the flow of my story.

Which could be a reason why some people don’t include them in their own IF’s, considering if that they aren’t too bothered with them in the first place. I know some people are SUPER against writing stuff like that.

Alas, I yearn for more toxic romances in fiction; they scratch a huge part of my brain.:smiling_face_with_tear:

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You gotta be a player of Diabolick Lover or a Mink lover, cause both of them are messier than the US economy.

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No, I only play games with customisable MCs (including gender customisation). That’s why we need more toxic romances in CoG/HG games, because they are inclusive! :smile:

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Dang, I would love to recommend you dramatical murder. It’s got all types of mess, physical and psychological ! But you play as a guy though.

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I’m so glad that someone decided to mention unhealthy romantic options! You see, I was the one who hated such relationships a few years ago, but… Well, I kind of found a character who made me change my mind.

I think there’s one thing that makes toxic romances really interesting and somewhat rewarding. They have some air of uniqueness about them. In my opinion, healthy romances are usually rather similar in general and it gets so tiring to read about the same things but in different settings over and over again. On the other hand, many unhealthy romances develop in different ways. For example, in one of my OTPs one character is a serial killer and the other one is that killer’s victim who tried to save his friends from that person. How can any usual romantic relationship progress in such circumstances? Besides, it’s difficult to imagine that killer loving his victim, but there can be a form of obsession and codependency which makes this dynamic so engaging. I guess that’s why healthy romances are sometimes quite boring. They’re expected to be “normal” in order to be accepted by the audience, and they turn out to be just restricted to widely accepted scenes and interactions. But when we talk about toxic romances, we can add some fairly disturbing details bordering on the extreme and that just makes them better.

I love Samurai of Hyuga. Jun is a reason I’ve decided to read the whole series of these books in the first place. There’s that obsessiveness in him that I find soooooo attractive. Firstly, it makes the story more tragic. And secondly, that means he can’t love anyone else! The thing is, a character who’s obsessed with MC can do everything for them. It’s like that saying about romances with heroes and villains. A hero will let you die in order to save the world, but a villain will destroy the world in order to save you. There may be some abuse on the villains’s end, yeah, but a feeling of having someone who’s madly in love with you is very pleasant even if it means locking you in a basement. Therefore I gladly accept such things on one condition. It must be mutual in the end.

I wish there were more unhealthy options among the other ROs… It’s nice that we can reread or replay some stories but sometimes I just want to find someting new :frowning:

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I feel like there’s a point to be made here that the notion of consent goes both ways, despite the apparent “power imbalance” between the PC and RO. Like, I think you’re referring to Ferrado in Heart of Battle, for the first part of your post? The matter goes beyond “you’re a slave and I own you and I think you can’t make a decision without being influenced by that so I revoke your ability to consent.” I think it’s a very one-dimensional view to say that the RO is in the wrong here or that he’s (I can’t recall if Ferrado is gender selectable) just totally disregarding or disrespecting the MC’s autonomy. When I read that part, it came across to me more as that Ferrado is uncomfortable with the power dynamic between the two, so to say that he’s in the wrong for denying sexual interaction because he does not feel comfortable with their dynamic is blatantly disregarding the importance of his consent in the situation. It isn’t that he’s saying the MC can’t consent, it’s that he himself isn’t comfortable enough with their dynamic to consent, which has nothing to do with how capable or able-minded the MC is. I’m sure I sound like a broken record at this point, but I just feel like it needs to be emphasized that even the one with the “power” in a “power imbalance” can be affected by that imbalance, and the issue of their consent and their feelings is just as important as the consent of the one without the “power.”

I haven’t done M’s relationship in Wayhaven – iirc, I wasn’t interested in them because of how uninterested and disrespectful they are towards the MC at the start – but I imagine this notion also might apply to that.

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Him leading MC on and still dangling them around in front of other nobles is pretty much textbook denial of consent. I haven’t tried to react sullen or annoyed, but I remember him ignoring MC’s feelings when it was convenient.

If he cares so much about consent, why deny ours and then immediately backpedal the second opportunity for more strikes? If he’s uncomfortable with it, sure (even if it makes him a big-ass hypocrite), but why show your dislike in such office, modern terms? Why not say “you are a slave and I know I can easily order you around with my status, and I want our relationships to be more than me forcing you to do whatever I want”. Why UUUUWAAAA THE POWER IMBALANCE?

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Somehow this reminds me of a certain therapist and an fbi agent :smiling_face_with_tear: ahhha tears of pain​:sob:

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“Ian and Mickey’s relationship was really weird but they love eachother” lmao that kind of relationship I was thinking

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It really didn’t come across that way to me, but to be fair I am a sex-repulsed asexual person who has never had any interest in pursuing a romantic relationship with someone, so my perspective/thought process regarding romance is probably not a good reflection of the average person’s lol.

On another note I will add on, more related to the thread’s actual topic, that I am all for toxic relationships, but if I can’t rationalize (in an emotionally sense more than a logical one) why my MC would willingly be involved in a relationship with someone “toxic,” I have no interest in being a part of it. I think this is pretty much the same as what a lot of others have been saying too.

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That’s my preferred mode of toxicity. It’s easier to understand how the MC can be drawn into their trap that way. If they’re just nasty and overtly abusive all the time, then why the hell would my MC give them the time of day (unless the MC is batshit crazy, too)? Now I want to check those out…

One-sided romances are always toxic, to some degree. Sadly, most of the romances in IF feel that way to me, because my MC is always the one having to chase them down to beg for attention instead of them putting in effort without being poked repeatedly with a cattle prod.

Then why is he a romance option? Because this, to me, boils down to “Ferrado doesn’t want the MC” and nothing can change that because of the master/slave situation. Don’t advertise a NPC as a romance option if they are not a romance option. Either the NPC wants to be with the MC–and will actually either accept the MC’s affections or take steps to show the MC their own affection (like that ever happens in IF, lol)–or not. In Ferrado’s case, it’s not. So making him a RO is either false advertising or a tease. Either way, the result is the same.

I mean, if Ferrado was ace, it’d be a different story. Then, he could say he’s in love with the MC but doesn’t have sex with anyone, so turning the MC down for that reason is a perfectly understandable character-based decision. Instead, it’s mealy-mouthed excuses about power imbalances that, ultimately, equate to Ferrado not wanting the MC. It’s just that simple to me.

For M, the same really applies. I’m sorry, but one drink does not alter my ability to make a decision (unless it’s like a 190 Octane from Fat Tuesday or a monster margarita made by someone who stubbed their toe when pouring the tequila), and treating someone as though it does–when they are obviously perfectly coherent–is disrespectful. I think this was more an author thing than a character thing, given the overabundance of “consent” moments there are in TWC romances. Musn’t touch your fuckbuddy’s elbow even when they’re clearly horny without a nod of consent first! :roll_eyes:

Because he doesn’t want the MC, that’s why. It’s all excuses. It’s more of the one-sided romances, that are far more toxic than someone who shows a bit of jealousy on occasion.

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This isn’t the case at all. Ferrado is a romance option, they’re clearly and explicitly attracted to the MC; they feel weird about sleeping with the MC while the MC isn’t free (for various reasons) and ask to wait to sleep together until they are free. They’re comfortable sleeping with the MC later on if the MC wants to, and they and the MC can have a great time. I understand people not liking how it’s expressed ingame, or not liking the character, or thinking they’re hypocritical (they’re kind of paternalistic), but I’m baffled that an NPC expressing boundaries about sleeping together and asking to wait for the right time is so controversial.

Ferrado aside - a romanceable NPCs can be not into having sex at a particular moment and it doesn’t mean they’re a tease (?!) or not a real romance. Yes, even if they’re allosexual.

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My understanding from reading other people’s comments on this is that it never happens between MC/Ferrado? All I ever see is people saying that Ferrado wouldn’t sleep with MC due to “power imbalance”, even if the MC wanted it (despite Ferrado claiming they want the MC). So that is not the case? Is this one of those games where you have to get to the end to finally kiss/bang/love the LI?

See above. I get that people don’t want sex 24/7, but in IF, when the LI turns the MC down, it comes across as the LI not wanting the MC, especially when BS gets thrown about like “power imbalances” or “you had a sip of alcohol” or whatever idiotic reason gets pulled out of the hat. This is made worse by the fact that it’s almost always the MC having to beg for sex instead of the LI initiating it (M is the exception in this argument, but this was like the only time the MC ever tried to initiate it, so it’s more annoying).

If my understanding of the situation with Ferrado is wrong, then I apologize, but that’s what my takeaway has been from all the comments I read. And, even given the situation you mentioned, I still find it a turnoff to have him say that then force the MC to wait until the end of the game to be together.

I guess I don’t see how he can make it clear he’s in love if he’s pushing the MC away. The whole “I can’t love you until this predetermined date in the future that may never come” has never sat well with me as a “love” story.

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Hm, to be faaaaaaaaair. In SoH, J’s romance itself exactly “toxic”. J just wasnt all there mentally, their special technique also seems to fry their mind if overly used. Now, you can counter this with “its toxic cause of what J did to the kid and doctor”.

And well, yes. It was wrong. But not exactly “toxic”

Was it unhealthy? OH HECK YEAH. Was it weird how she treated us after finding us again? YUUUUUUUP ((But this can also be seen as not part of the relationship, and more as revenge. Rememeber they wernt technically in a relationship at this point)).

But, then again there was also her carving her name into the MC. I DUNNO, ITS WEIRD. I can see why people would call it toxic, but i dont see their entire relationship as it.

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He only screwed my MC at the very last second. Bought him out after he upped his kill count, bought Eryx too, freed them and had a very prolonged scene about sleeping with them with yet another power imbalance, but finally yielded.

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Yes, the MC can sleep with Ferrado at the end if they want. Before that there is expression of attraction via conversation and various physical stuff (kissing and slightly heavier making out), Ferrado telling the MC they want to romance them, and telling the MC what they like and/or are attracted to about them, and making plans for what romantic (or sexual, if that’s what the MC’s into) things they’ll do once they can be together. When I’ve romanced Ferrado the feel I get is of someone who is really into the MC to like, a giddy mid-life-crisis degree, but is making an effort to tear themselves away because they want to think of themselves as an “ethical person” who is set apart from the other nobility who wouldn’t hesitate.

Ferrado just isn’t an edgy character and neither is their romance. I think that’s OK though - not every fancy noble character has to be Christian-Grey-ing all over the place.

As I say I get feeling like the character is hypocritical/patronising etc, but… while I completely understand personal preferences and turnoffs, it just doesn’t sit right to suggest that if NPCs aren’t available for sex at the MC’s demand, it isn’t a legit romance or that they’re not really into the MC.

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Main issue with Ferrado romance is the fact that the parts before power imbalance actually had somewhat interesting dynamic and great potential.

Once the cursed words of power imbalance™ appear in the air, all this potential and dynamic poof away and power imbalance gets repeated ad nauseum. He comes, he repeats these words like a parrot, he leaves. Great romance content, worth waiting until the end of the game for.

It felt like that to me. I had to constantly remind him that hey, that’s me, your slave you love so much and want to buy out, do you want to do anything with me yet. The very end of the game for romance finish felt really annoying when all of the scenes after visiting his estate boiled down to him brushing MC off with power imbalance™ comments.

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Eh, I am a simple creature - give me an extraordinarily earnest, yearning silver fox who wants to pamper my PC forever and has incredible outfits that I would like to own and an amazing castle, “we want to–but we mustn’t!” makeouts and a hot sex scene, and I will be happy.

I like edgier romances too, but not every romance has to be like that.

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