Disliked Elements, Mechanics, and Tropes

My pet peeve is “playersexual” characters in stories with heavy romance. Basically that is the trope where characters will get into a romance with you no matter your choices, and they’ll never break up with you for any reason, you initiate everything and they just say “yes”. Often the only thing that’s different is some flavor text like pronouns depending on your gender.

CoG has a lot of this because authors want to be inclusive, so they opt not to “lock” romances behind barriers like gender choice - this seems like a good idea at a glance, but I much prefer personalized romances, like in the Dragon Age games, where every character has their own sexual preferences (straight, gay, bi, etc.) and even preferences related to race or background (human, elf, mage, etc.) so there’s not only replay value, but you get unique scenes and dynamics based on the details of your character’s identity.

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Ok but then why have the heart scan them and reveal they’re awful people? And as for bodies spreading plague, some powers and gadgets disintegrate the bodies entirely. That shouldn’t spread plague at all.

And how does killing the witches cause chaos? They’re the ones SPREADING chaos!

What does them being awful people have to do with anything and also most of the heart lines are completely random anyways. Getting rid of bodies does lower chaos amount of chaos that is rise but they are still disappearing which would cause problems with people being scared that they will dissappear too chaos isn’t just about the plague spending more it’s also about people panicking and thus making things worse. Most of the witch’s are infiltrating high society so their deaths/disappearance will still be noticed but like guards thier deaths don’t rise chaos as much as normal civilians. It just seems like that some people find the systems like that fun and some don’t which is fine. I’m curious to hear your thoughts on Choice of Rebels if you played it since it has somewhat of a similar system with anarchy.

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Dishonored 2 recognizes the distinction between killing a psychopath, a jerk and an innocent person actually. The heart’s lines are randomized but there are 3 types of npcs: Murderous, guilty and innocent. If the heart says something like "He killed his mother because she refused to give him money. " it’s the first category, if it says “He’s cheating on his wife” it’s the second. The heart’s comment on innocent npcs will be like “He feeds street animals and takes care of orphans.” If you kill someone from the second or the third category the chaos will rise more quickly. And remember, chaos is not only about the plague/bloodflies. Even if you have the shadow kill skill, if there are dozens of people disappearing everyday how would that not raise chaos?
Also most witches fall into the murderous category. I remember killing almost all of them and still finishing the game with low-chaos.

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Because they have committed horrible crimes and sometimes will if left alive. For example, I kill a guard because if he lives, he’ll kill his family then himself (which should raise chaos anyway).

Also, I feel the witches would cause far mor chaos than their disappearance or deaths ever would. Their deaths should be a net gain.

As for Choice of Rebels, it could occasionally be frustrating but also, high anarchy is kind of the point there, and the game acknowledges that trying to cause more chaos can actually be a viable tactic. Low anarchy is nigh-on impossible without letting your own people die so the nobility can go undisrupted. You know, the opposite of a rebellion. Only reason I had for low anarchy was to recruit Simon/Suzanne and honestly I gave up on that.

I also like how WHO you target matters and your political ambitions can be determined. Want to secede from the empire? Leave the nobles alone since they’re locals and can be allies. Want to liberate the whole country? Fuck ‘em, their nationality is irrelevant. Religious? Avoid targeting the church. Sure, it’s hard to do that in a theocracy but killing nobles actually causes plenty of chaos while leaving more benign priests to support your reformation. Populist? Avoid peasants.

My current character is a religious populist internationalist who wants to take over the empire and become the new pope.

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See, THAT is an improvement.

This is, of course, ignoring that DA2 is extremely playersexual, and the only characters who aren’t are Leliana and Cassandra (in my case, Leliana is already spoken for (Sorry Hawke, you’re one Blight and a decade besides too slow for my Warden!), and Cassandra doesn’t run into Hawke until well into the plot of Inquisition), Bethany and Carver (for obvious reasons), Varric (who technically? has a girlfriend), and Aveline (who was married, but then her first husband got tainted by Darkspawn and had to be mercy killed, so then she marries Donnic if you choose to go through that quest chain).

I made the mistake of trying to build up my forces and resources before making any overt moves, which resulted in me spending the whole damn game cooped up in camp with a bunch of cranky mercenaries and revolutionaries and my horrible shit of a father bitching at me every two seconds until the church finally got fed up with waiting for me to do shit and hunted me down their own damn selves.

Turns out I’m not good at rebellions, who knew?

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A lot of this is just logistics, really. If you’ve only got a small number of ROs assigning them strict sexualities can end up with your players having severely limited options on who they can romance. Take Dragon Age Origins for example. If you’re playing a lesbian, you better like Leliana because you don’t get another option. Playing a gay man? Hope you like Zevran. Making everybody playersexual in a case like this just expands everybody’s options more without your having to develop more characters and slot them into the story.

It’s not a great answer, really, but IMO it is the best one unless you’re going to have enough romance options to give everybody several choices, and that’s not always practical.

The heart is a haunted magical artifact created after the Outsider sent dreams to a mad scientist. If you’re running around on a murder spree choosing targets based on what it says, then you’re the bad guy.

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The thing I find difficult about "player"sexual romances its things like Anders only specifying that Karl is his ex boyfriend to male Hawke in DA2. It raises the question of whether he just doesn’t mention it to female Hawke, or whether the relationship didn’t exist in the female!Hawke universe. I do enjoy gay or bi romances being the majority though, and I find it more fun to have more romance options available if it’s from a small pool. So if it’s a choice between “playersexual” or “majority-straight”, I’d have to pick the former - though it’s not a fantastic decision to have to make.

I really love it when romance options push back if MCs so something that goes against their values, and/or do things that cause problems for the MC (which is something I really enjoy about the DA2 romances - they all do things that are bad for themselves and/or Hawke and cause trouble). That’s catnip for me! I realise I’m veering into “tropes and stories you love” so uh… I dislike when romance options become total doormats or have no values or goals beyond the MC and the relationship (or when that setup is presented as a desirable romance rather than a flaw in the character or relationship).

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On the topic of the DA2 romances doing their own fair share of not cool things, my headcanon for my Hawke was that she purposely taught herself Templar techniques on the hopefully-small-but-not-impossible off chance that Merrill wound up losing control of her blood magic and needed to be shut down with a vengeance - not because she’s afraid of Merrill, but as a mercy to her girlfriend to prevent her from being driven mad, possessed by demons, or worse. My Hawke was a proactive sort like that.

It’s kind of a bummer for me that almost all of the female romances in Inqusition are just… not worth it in some way or another. Apart from Josephine, who is best girl and I will tear open the Fade if anybody says otherwise, we have Sera who is horribly immature (and not in the funny way) and treats magic like the plague (which means if you’re a mage and try to romance her, it’s 50/50 odds she’ll break up with you based entirely on what you are - admittedly, that conversation happens right on the heels of some severe magic shenanigans occuring, so she’s probably still a bit frazzled from that, but even before, and long after that incident happens, if you say the word “magic” around her, she all but dry heaves in response.) And there’s also the fact that, as my roommate pointed out during her own playthrough, Sera casually outs Krem as trans without permission of any sort, and also misgenders Krem in the process, if I’m not mistaken, neither of which are in any way, shape or form cool.

Then there’s Cassandra, who’s cool, don’t get me wrong, but she can be a tiny bit too zealous in her ideals sometimes, and she also tries to kick Varric’s ass for hiding Hawke from the Chantry (who Varric and Hawke both assumed at the time were after their heads, not helped by Cassandra’s interrogation of Varric, which was perhaps not as gentle as it could have been), and like, sorry Cassandra, but Varric’s my bro, if you two are constantly gonna be at each other’s throats all the time, then this ain’t gonna work out between us. Plus, Cassandra’s straight, but my mage Inquisitor is very much a lesbian, so we were incompatible anyhow.

I don’t know if Vivienne is romanceable or not, because I hold firm to the belief that I would have to actually be clinically insane to give her a snowball’s chance in hell in the first place. I have no doubt in my mind that she would casually slit your throat without hesitation if it meant getting ahead in the world. Hell, her entire reason for even joining the Inquisition was as an attempt to grab power by aligning herself with this new, upstart world power and demonstrating to Thedas how she “selflessly” aided a noble cause and helped put the world back to rights.

Then there’s Iron Bull, who is also best girl, but I don’t wanna get in the way of him and Dorian, you know?

And doesn’t the heart also speaks with the late Empress’ voice? So, there’s also coercion by the Outsider in the mix. I feel like it speaks for itself that, free powers or no, you should definitely not trust anything the Outsider says or does.

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Totally agree on the “objectively sexy”. Not really a thing. I think authors should use phrases like “classically handsome/pretty” or “beautiful in a shampoo commercial way” etc. We can relate to the phrases and get a general understanding of the features they imply without demanding we are attracted to them.

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Or something like, “You can see the appeal, though [RO] isn’t necessarily to your preferences,” something like that which acknowledges that your sexuality flag doesn’t match up but still allows you to agree that the RO could be good looking to other people.

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Not if it’s correct.

I’ve never played Dishonored and I in fact know very little about it. But judging from this conversation I have to say I’m going to have to side with the game on this one. Even if the amulet is 100% accurate, killing upwards of a hundred people because you learned about their negative traits sounds like a chaotic approach to take.

I mean, first of all, how clear is the amulet? Does it say the the victim is plotting a murder or some terrible crime? If not you’ll be killing someone because they’re a jerk or because you think, based on their negative traits, that they might go on to do something bad in the future. But killing people preemptively because of what they might do in the future is a pretty bad and again, chaotic thing to do.

Especially if these people are, as I assume, guards who might prevent other crimes, politicians whose deaths would create a power vacuum, etc, etc.

Maybe the game should’ve included things like “Oh this guys planning to murder someone so killing him will actually slightly reduce chaos.” But if all it does is tell you some bad stuff about them, I don’t think that justifies a killing spree. Like imagine if someone criminalized negative traits in the real world.

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My issue is that the approach is portrayed as evil and everyone hates you for it. Something can be chaotic and still be heroic.

Highly. It will give you a detailed account of what they will do and when they will do it. There ARE times when the soul within is too horrified to elaborate but that’s telling in its own right since usually they describe their past and future crimes is great detail.

Some of them are guards, but having those people as guards makes a power vacuum a necessary evil. Also, the idea that one guy is killing enough people to create a recruit shortage is nonsense.

Quick point: it’s not an amulet, the heart is very literally a human heart with certain, uh, “modifications” done to it.

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I hate it when in fantasy games there are multiple sapient races. And you get to play the human.

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When stories start off in a dream sequence of what’s going to happen in the future. I’ve seen it a lot and I don’t know why I don’t like it. I also get annoyed if it’s overly trippy to the point where I don’t know what’s happening. Then the MC just wakes up and does not remotely give any thought to it. It’s like telling the reader oOOOHH there’s this magical thing going to happen then immediately saying it doesn’t matter at all. I just think there are better ways to show that somethings out of the ordinary is going to happen. On a side note I find most D&D races like elves, dwarves, and orcs are so generic. When you see elves their always going to be magic tree hippies and I think it’s time to break the mold.

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When stories start off in a dream sequence of what’s going to happen in the future. I’ve seen it a lot and I don’t know why I don’t like it. I also get annoyed if it’s overly trippy to the point where I don’t know what’s happening.

“Waking up” sequences to start a story are already cliche and boring on their own; even more so when its the character waking up from a dream.

Then the MC just wakes up and does not remotely give any thought to it. It’s like telling the reader oOOOHH there’s this magical thing going to happen then immediately saying it doesn’t matter at all. I just think there are better ways to show that somethings out of the ordinary is going to happen.

That being said, I’d say is that if someone is insistent on including that type of sequence (and it could work in an IF game, as it’s not necessarily intended be a literary masterpiece or anything), that it provides a decent opportunity to establish something potentially important to the player character’s personality, especially in a world with fantasy elements.

Someone who brushes off dreams likely approaches other aspects of life in different ways compared to someone who reads into dreams, for example.

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Yeah, the only thing to hate about Dishonored, for me. Preach.

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