Disliked Elements, Mechanics, and Tropes

I really hate when a non-playable character I just met tries to seduce me like “Oh! I wouldn’t mind a beautiful boy such as you sitting with me.” they/she/he says with a wink. I mean the character can say that but not with a wink and then the author gives me choices to continue the romance. And besides, it seems a little hasty. I wouldn’t care if the character said “Oh! I wouldn’t mind a beautiful boy/girl such as you sitting with me” and he/she/they went back to whatever they were doing before I arrived. It may seem unimportant but the subject is about the things we hate, isn’t it?:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

I also don’t like when my character or an NPC dies without me having a chance to save him/them. For example in Magium (What I’m about to say may spoil those who have not yet read the book so be careful XD) When we have to go through the basement to eliminate the lessathi that threatened the king. Suddenly, the corridor exploded because the lessathi had trapped it. The only way out is to maximize the premonition stat or take another choice just before entering the basement. Another much more relevant example is when we arrive in the city of Rose and then the 2 magicians who turned into bounty hunters in a matter of seconds attack us. The author makes sure that rose moves away from the group under the pretext that it will be safer. Then the author again makes sure that the two magicians know that Rose is a timeweaver. At the end of the battle, when the death magician’s curse was activated, it was necessary to maximize three stat hearing, speed and premonition I believe otherwise Rose will be killed. I remind you that there’s nine stat on Magium surely, there will be players who will not focus on those stats. Dont get me wrong, i really love magium. Actually, it’s on of my fav book. :wink:

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In Choice of Rebels, the higher your charm, the more you’ll inspire fear and hatred in the people who disagree with you. You’ll be able to talk your way out of some things, but past a certain point your political adversaries will begin to resist all the more fiercely because you’ll have a reputation as dangerously persuasive.

This doesn’t show up much in Game 1, but will be an increasing factor in later games.

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That is is true for some games, but seems rather an exaggeration to generalize it. For example, there are games that improve the failed stat (you learn by failing) which is a reasonable reason to choose a lower stat; there are games that reward lowest stats; there are games that test for moderate or well-balanced stats; there are games that use combined stats regularly; and there are games that have narrative reasons to choose a lower stat.

The latter of these seems most important of all. You may be specifically trying to lose a challenge, or not want to seem to aggressive in front of someone meek, or have promised someone you would refrain from stealing. When the narrative and the stats go hand in hand, you avoid the “let’s read this and find the one that matches my highest stat.” Because that’s not even really a choice at that point. My experience of CoG’s offering is that the better games avoid the problem you note. In fact, that’s what makes them better games, to me.

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Please, tell me these COG games, so that I might play them, and consume good media.

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I am actually not super fond of systems that are overly reliant on personality stats for the failure/success of choices, but I am not entirely sure why. Basically, lots of games have personality stats like selfish/selfless or honest/deceptive that are usually altered throughout the game depending on our actions. That’s fine, I like that. It vaguely shows what kind of character we are playing.

The part I don’t like is where we meet someone and our choice is to either lie or be honest, and if our choice does not fit with the “established”/assumed personality (deceptive/honest), we fail in some way. This seems to try to encourage some sort of forced consistency in our actions that I rarely think makes a lot of sense. I might be honest to the rice farmers outside of town, but then lie to the town guards, and I don’t think there is some great contradiction there.

I guess part of it is that these systems are not very good at understanding more complicated motives behind actions, part of it is that they can have trouble with people who act in both directions and therefore end up in the middle (which is usually mechanically the worst place to be, since you get the benefits of neither extreme but with all the drawbacks), and part of it is that I want to play the character the way I think fits my character’s personality instead of the way that the author/game thinks my character should act (“No, lying here does not fit your character’s personality, so you fail”).

It also has a similar issue as what @Laguz mentioned above. If I know that acting against my character’s assumed personality will punish me, I will always lie or always tell the truth, just because that is optimal. It shrinks my toolbox of roleplaying options, basically.

Note, I don’t mind this as much in some games as others. I think it does make a lot of sense in certain situations to restrict choices or fail choices if our personality completely goes against said choice (see Guns of Infinity and trying to shoot the girl as a merciful character).

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I can only speak with authority about my own code, and Tally Ho does all of those things. For example, there is a character with a preference for characters who live in the middle of a binary personality stat. But my player experience tells me that both Choice of Robots and Choice of Magics do these things, as well as Choice of Rebels in terms of narrative choice informing stat-based choice. Thinking back…Hollywood Visionary worked hard to give you reasons to choose less efficient stat choices because there were significant tradeoffs to consider. It’s too early to see where Wayhaven is going to take its narrative, but that game has made an interesting choice to allow you to succeed and fail whatever you like, thus helping to shape your personality, while not closing off the main narrative of romance.

I can’t quite tout the narrative virtues of Champion of the Gods, but it bumps stats on failed choices, avoiding the problem you note.

Yes, that’s really important for game designers to realize. A binary stat should not be treated in a binary fashion. You need to use the middle and test for middle.

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Games that do this get +10 approval from me, hands down. Nuance in situations is critical, and it gives me confidence in the gameplay when I see authors who understand that.

On the subject of things I hate, too, I’m going to go with “really high relationship threshold to stay in a romance.” I’m fine with some threshold–you shouldn’t be able to hop into bed with someone whom you insulted after murdering their dog-- and I’m comfortable with some external requirements. I’m even fine with some characters being hard to romance for plot reasons.

But I feel like some games set it up so that if you don’t spend every waking moment with the characters/agree with them on every thought, then you don’t get the good end with them.

It makes me paranoid and makes me unable to spend time with other characters I maybe want to be friends with.

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Pages with the “continue” button being located in the exact same spot as the previous page. My mouse tends to register 2 clicks even though I left-click once, and I often choose the wrong option/skip text due to this.

So, I just need to say this about other types of games.Something I just need to make my thoughts clear.

Choosing a preset character’s weapons and class shouldn’t be counted as character customization. Yes, maybe I can use a sword instead of a spear or what have you, but I’m still playing the same character, with the same personality, with really, the same everything.

Maybe it’s a nice touch to be able to fine tune a character’s fighting style, and yet, that’s all it is. At the end of the line, I’m not really making the character more connected or my own. It’s still the exact same.

Now, there are examples where I can swallow this. Hyrule Warriors. Preset characters because it’s to fit into the Zelda universe. Link has a variety of weapons(But really, still only about three useful weapon sets.) So when Fire Emblem warriors comes around, it’s understandable that you only are going to play as main universe characters. Makes sense.

Except…not really. Both are examples of Dynasty warriors crossovers, but that’s just it. As someone who follows the series and will honestly say the Empire versions are better, there is a reason for that. Empires allows you to construct a character of your own and insert it into the universe.

Not unlike Dragon Ball Z Xenoverse. While, yes, I’ll admit I didn’t like the Time Patroller’s incredibly generic anime hero personality that the dialogue implies, it was still your own character who doesn’t feel shoe horned or random to the universe at all. It was proper customization that allows you to have a unique character who also doesn’t feel forced.

Now, back to Hyrule Warriors. Some of us already know that the main Dynasty Warrior games will still let you make your own character for Free Mode, we don’t see any of that here. There is however a completely new and(what comes off as a very forced) addition to the game, named Lana. As a character, I don’t mind her. As what she implies that they were willing to allow new characters to exist in the franchise, the lack of any ability to make someone of your own design starts to make less sense, with the only justification being budget and time reasons.

This isn’t just a spill about Hyrule Warriors being bad, because it is in fact(Incredibly cliched and derivative storyline, aside), a good game and one that I’ve sunk tons of hours into. It’s a point that the justification for franchises not wanting to interfere with the lore makes little sense, let alone in games that aren’t even supposed to be considered canonical.

We still get countless of RPG’s in 2019, all claiming unique character design which boils down to “You can pick out their clothes and their weapon skills”, which does apply under the definition of character customization, but allows very little feeling of content and value and certainly doesn’t help me as a player feel more connected to my character just because “He has a hat now.”

Does any remember Saints Row 2? Which came out in 2008. By today’s standards the character models would be a little odd, but you were fully allowed to design your character, without it really damaging the story, and even came with different voices showing distinctly different character traits. They accomplished all of this eight years ago, and it’s true, that smaller developers have more limited resources, but we get just as many releases from major developers who do have the means to do these things and simply choose not to, to hammer out a “good enough” product.

Long rant to a simple summary, decorating my sword with a ribbon is “customizing”, just not in any particularly satisfying way.

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It’s tough stuff to position. Mobile, PC, and tablets all have different screen ratio and orientation.
My tip would be to use Tab > Enter to let the keyboard do the “clicking” (navigating the game with keyboard), if you’re using PC.


And in case Dan see this, maybe something like click-and-hold element to the UX for clicking confirmation (both for PC and mobile?)

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The mechanic I would hate would be a stat that assumes my personality that also decides what I can or cannot say or do. What is stopping me from telling the occasional lie in order to get the reaction I want? What is stopping me from using violence when needed?

I completely get that if my fight stat is 0 then I would not win a fight, however, if someone persists in being a constant thorn in my side then the reason that stops me from ruthlessly putting that opposition down should not be because my ruthless stat is below average/my compassion stat is above average.

Second on my list would be to be told how I feel about any particular character, unless it’s about how said character is the feared leader of a sprawling criminal empire with a history of being behind many murders/hero of a myth that has accomplished many great deeds worthy of being immortalised in tale, but that brings me to number three.

Number three would be that the character being described as having something in abundance does not actually show it in the story itself if they appear. For example, if someone is said to be a gang leader with money and clout, then I want to see that money and clout be put to use against any opposition that pops up, or be slowly dismantled by the protagonist before the final showdown. If someone is said to be a master at politics, then he or she should know exactly how the current political situation creates problems/opportunities for whom, if they want to reform aforementioned political system to bring peace, then they should identify what leads to the conflicts that requires the reforms, not immediately propose elective monarchy where the electors are power hungry aristocrats when said power hungry aristocrats are the ones fighting in the first place. cough Tyrion cough But I digress.

The fourth would be ROs that seem forced/illogical, really, if the RO is forced upon me, I would immediately search for an option to disregard him/her or just grit my teeth and decide to go through with it (usually on a second try onwards) anyways to see if the character can grow on me. Meanwhile, if I am going after an RO who is brought up with the idea that courtship should be a drawn out process, then I am fine to go through with multiple chapters of courting the RO.

The fifth is not a mechanic per se, but I do hate if a game does not give me the choice to save at certain points of the game, especially when I have to micromanage quite a bit on a chapter and the next one involves just as many choices and I accidentally mess up there. I hate to go through the winter in XOR over again because I accidentally picked the choice somewhere afterwards due to my poor perception. (I still love it despite the first interaction with Breden and winter though.)

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Yeah I’ve even had it happen occasionally on the mobile especially if playing on the online store when the internet’s being laggy. Click. Nothing. Click again. 2 pages forward. Moving the button around probably wouldn’t be the easiest though and annoying in a way. A back button for non choices (continue buttons) would be kind of nice. (But I don’t know how hard that is to code in either.)

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Not hard, rather tedious I’d argue: add a unique label-goto pairing for every *page_break you have.

And to prevent turning *page_break into a *choice, the *goto can be put into stats screen utilizing *redirect_scene instead of *goto, but then you’d have to add something like *create backbutton "string" and *set it accordingly depending on the section of the game the player is, and then do *redirect_scene {backbutton}.

So, yep.
It’s totally plausible, but even I shudder on its imagery. I shall bow down to the floor upon any madlad who managed to do this perfectly.

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Back buttons would probably not be too hard to code in unless some variables were changed in which case you suddenly have a huge problem. You’d have to restore any variables that changed as a result of the last choice.

As far as I can see there are only two ways to do that effectively. Either saving a copy of all variables before every choice (and keeping them so people can go back as far as they want) or having a ‘back’ option coded at every choice so you can undo whatever changed at that point.

I suppose you could pack variables into strings. That would, at least, reduce the number of duplicated variables you’d need to create but it’s messy. I was thinking about doing this as a sort of restore point at the start of each chapter. A proper ‘save’ option would be better though.

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No, not hate, I’m the problem.
Tell me, I’m not the only one when the game ask you multiple times who would you like to spend time with, can’t help but continuously choosing one certain RO, after awhile, the relationship bars end like this:


I just… can’t control myself.

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Thats usually because since in most games writers seem to go with the “spend your time with one person but thats all you get then the story moves on” method rather than the “Hey, you can go checkup on your whole crew” method which can be really annoying and usually people dont want to miss out on any events that happen with the RO so the easier method is to just do a playthrough focusing on a certain one.

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i have only 3 and i have only encountered them in a few games so far.

fake choices (the ones that makes you fail even when you have the right stats…) and no checkpoints (i hate having to restart the entire game because of one wrong choice). Games that have decreased stats or choices based on rng.

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I hate it when the choices are not really descriptive. Sometimes I choose a choice because it looks like it means x but after I clicked it and saw the result, wow I find out actually what author meant is somewhat really different and I didn’t understand it because the choice was written so vaguely. Since there isn’t a back button, this sometimes really damages the experience.

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When the romancing aspect is introduced almost immediately on starting the game or within the first few chapters. Like bruh I don’t even know them yet

And a small peeve of mine (and this is not alll stories) is when there’s a lot of ROs. I find the more ROs, the less they contribute to the overall story, making for a very disconnected and bland experience. Some characters just shouldn’t be romancable lol

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I totally agree with mungo.

And another thing that definitely ruin the fun for me is when the MC doesn’t have a “voice” during dialogues, it’s so frustrating, the conversation becomes one sided and the immersion is completely ruined.

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