You think so? I’m not sure that’s true of the CoG/HG library. If we look at parser IF, VNs, or Telltale games, let alone broadening IF to include e.g. The Witcher or Horizon Zero Dawn, sure, there are plenty of fixed-MC blockbusters. But looking over the bestseller list for our little corner of the IF medium, defined protagonists isn’t what jumps out at me.
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I broadly agree that having some traits that are set in stone can make for a more focused protagonist because as the author you can “know” and draw on those traits.
But I also think “defined protagonist” is a loose term that is hard to generalise. I’ve seen it used to mean anything from “railroaded storyline”, to “fixed personality”, to “fixed gender” to “fixed backstory element” to “this is a specific character ala Harry DuBois or Lara Croft”.
I’ve also seen a lot of complaints where players have felt too hemmed-in if they felt the way the PC was written was too restrictive/prescriptive. One person’s “well-defined protagonist” will be another’s “my character is on rails” and for games that aren’t in the Lara/Harry mould, it’s helpful to be mindful about where choices are and aren’t allowed - too much definition can backfire if players don’t feel the character is their own. (Plus, even Harry or 80 Days’ Passepartout have some freedom in how they handle situations, and hidden or visible mechanics describing that.)
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True it backfire for me with Wayhaven and Samurai of Hyuga and did not for FH but in the cases of the former I dislike a lot more then just the mc. Think those who dislike FH would say the same of it
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In this context, I am using “defined protagonist” as basically anything more specific than a Skyrim-style blank slate, since that’s what the previous poster talked about. Which, admittedly, makes my claims hard to meaningfully debate. I just don’t really like blank slates, that’s all.
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Or very little choice in romances that are not straight. Can’t really stand to play games anymore with somewhat customizable characters or characters who are supposed to be self inserts where I can’t play as someone who is bi (So most JRPGS 
but times seems to be charging with some companies there)
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I have the same problem with trying to understand what “blank state protagonist” is - although I know it is a term people use, I’ve never quite managed to figure out what it is. Like, if you can pick your characters’s traits/personality/background, which then affects the story, is it a blank state, since it isn’t predefined? And how is that any different from story being affected by predefined traits anyway (apart from reacting to player choice, which… somehow seems to be a bad thing in this instance)?
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I’m honestly kind of sick of the “enemies to lovers” trope where there’s always some kind of betrayal or backstory reason the RO hates you. It’s almost always one-sided because my MCs never… care?? Like. I love enemies to lovers in THEORY, but in execution, there’s so few that actually catch my fancy. It always feels like the RO acts like either a spitting rage twitter user, or a sad whining lovesick idiot who hates that we’re on different sides now and our love is ~bad for us~ and ~forbidden~ because our past is ~complicated~.
Where are my enemies to lovers ROs with some goddamn SELF RESPECT? I don’t want them to be drooling over eachother, I want them to be impressed at how far the other has come since they’ve known them, and complimenting their skills in a very Distant Acquaintance way, because they don’t know if any sort of furtherance in dynamic is wanted and they’re. Y’know. Chill about the distance they might have now.
And maybe that easy camaraderie transforms into something deeper, and maybe it doesn’t. Honestly, it’d be awesome to have a platonic route like this where you have someone you used to know on the Other Side and you both reconnect about interests and stuff and catch up while fighting. It’s complicated, yes, because you’re on opposite sides, but you also respect eachother as PEOPLE because you used to know eachother, and know there are probably good reasons for either of you doing stuff like this. Two people that are okay with Not Being In Eachother’s Business, and are okay with waiting for the other to tell them if they ever want to, rather than trying to force any kind of redemption arc.
I dunno. I feel like there just aren’t that many ROs who don’t absolutely require the MC to be In Their Lives and would be so devastated if the MC were to cut them off, who ALSO do enjoy having the MC around and respect them as a person, and would enjoy being friends or something more. It’s either they love them so incredibly deeply that it hurts to see them go, or like. They’re a jerk/someone that’s not in the MC’s current lane, and the MC has to work to get their attention/strike up a relationship. The only ones I can think of are very tame slice-of-life examples, but it’d be cool to have someone like that in a more action-focused game. With. Y’know. The bit of tension that comes from being on different sides and whatnot (I like the idea better if they both have some personal stake in the side their fighting on, rather than just being there for money or whatever. There’s that little bit of conflict there, but they both would rather have a proper conversation about it than start yelling, even if the truth of it is hurtful.)
And, just in general. More ROs with self respect that aren’t cocky. Please. They can be mentally unstable in other ways if you want that 
self worth isn’t the absolute end-all-be-all of issues people can have.
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You may want to check out Cataphrak’s Mecha Ace.
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Hawkins waves hello. One of the best enemies to lovers with a very similar vibe to your preferred enemies-to-lovers dynamic.
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More use of accents and altered spelling to show them. It’s a very fine line (and one I actually avoid in my own writing) but one I like to see.
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The first thing that comes to mind is all the paranormal/urban fantasy stories where the MC is a cop and/or detective. It’s gotten to the point where I wouldn’t even accept a journalist because ‘snooping around and asking questions about a crime or mystery,’ is just so overdone. That isn’t to say I can’t enjoy stories where the PC is a detective/investigator, but I will skip over them unless I hear glowing reports and the likelihood of me getting enthused about it, regardless of how good it is, is pretty low. I’m just tired of it.
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I just wish the stories that market themselves as “detective stories” or similar had you do any actual, y’know, detecting. Looking at you, Wayhaven, with all the side eye.
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There’s so many of these it’s insane and there’s always more. Like so many WIPs here and on tumblr I get a bit interested in then it’s dropped “and you’re a detective”. Just ugh.
My personal problem with them, beyond how trite and overdone it is, is the near total lack of criticism. It’s just taken at face value that you’re a cop and doesn’t reflect on it at all like it’s a perfectly normal job with no well known systemic issues (not that cops would be fine even without systemic bigotry). You can say like “oh but the story isn’t about that so why bring it up” but it feels so incredibly and blatantly inseparable from the job, especially nowadays. Like if you did it ten or fifteen years ago I guess it would be more understandable to not think too deeply on it, but I feel society has progressed enough (and the problems are visible enough now, being common news and talking points), that it’s insane to keep trucking along like it’s totally fine.
Sorry for the mild rant going in a different direction. Sensitive topic for me (not that it should be, it’s not like I’ve had interactions with cops, but nevertheless I have strong opinions).
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I think there’d be less fatigue on this if you actually got to do the job, but in pretty much every scenario it appears that “you’re a detective” is just an excuse to let you have the legal authority to snoop around, no warrant ever required, for reasons (The Bureau, where you ALSO don’t have a warrant and the game requires you to get the suspect to give you verbal permission to look around the place appears to be the exception to the rule).
Like, I’d enjoy Citadel a WHOLE lot less if I didn’t get to do medical intern shit in the game (Jean Liu would still be adorable, though).
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I’m glad you said it, I’m new to posting here and I wasn’t sure how well it would go over, so thank you.
I do think JBento has a point too, that the game mechanics of “investigating” don’t tend to be thorough or interesting enough for a lot of people. I was thinking about how in The Golden Rose, which is low fantasy, not urban fantasy I know, but the main plot is basically, “snoop around and ask questions to find this guy,” and I enjoyed every minute of it. Part of that was that I didn’t have to be a cop, not that in real life a mercenary is any better, lol. Part of it was because I found the setting, plot, and characters besides the RO’s, interesting and engaging. There was a bit of mystery about every single character you meet, and often about the places you go. They all weren’t props for you to click at till you can get back to your RO.
I don’t mind romances where it feels like the plot itself is a prop for the characters necessarily, I enjoyed Wayhaven Book 1 and 2, despite feeling that way. But it’s also really easy for me to lose interest if I start to feel like the author isn’t doing the RO’s any justice either, or if the plot goes into a dark/darker place that I feel like it can’t hold up: Sorry, I forgot to blur this spoiler for Book 3: (like fucking a slave auction.) 
More in the vein of urban fantasy/paranormal, is Speaker, which is tragically unfinished- you aren’t a cop. The reason you’re looking into the mystery is personal, which greatly increases my desire to solve it for the PC.
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I mean, the systemic bigotry is the main reason cops are so controversial now. And if you get rid of that, that seems to basically resolve most issues with the police.
Being critical of the very concept of police in any context is kinda silly.
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I feel as though I shouldn’t get into it as it deviates from this thread’s purpose, moving straight into politics. I guess all I’ll say is that I, obviously, don’t think it’s silly to dislike law enforcement as an institution, and the intentional bigotry is really only one aspect of it. Yeah that’s the main problem most people have with them, but I don’t agree with the vast majority of people on politics. Their very purpose from the start is flawed and malicious at a base level and that’s not fixable.
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It’s an anarchist take on the matter. I’m not one for anarchism myself. Personally, I’m glad things haven’t gone too far in the other direction. Every piece of media being rabidly anti-law enforcement.
Another problem with media like that is that it tends to be against the idea that justice should include punishment at all, which often means seeing people commit unspeakable crimes, then redeeming them to “prove” anyone can be redeemed or rehabilitated regardless of past wrongdoings.
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What’s funny is that while I am an anarchist, I’m more specifically an anarcho-communist and I’m coming at this purely from the communist side. The problem isn’t the inherent idea of a group of people who want to protect their community, it’s just that that’s not what the police are and never have been from the very start. The intent is for protecting capital, for protecting the rich. Any protection of you is incidental, a side effect of getting people who were mislead into thinking that was the end goal (“protect and serve” was literally a marketing campaign). If that wasn’t the case, sure I guess but then that’s no longer the police.
Funny you say that most media is so against it given how much copaganda is still around and constantly popular, plus, as started this, all of the stuff with cop/detective (cool story, still a cop) protagonists.
I’m very iffy on punishment. On a personal level, fuck yeah revenge is rad and there are people I’d love to not be around anymore, but if any sort of governing body is doing it I don’t trust it at all given the obvious potential for misuse or just fucking messing it up like is a constant. Like I strongly disagree with the whole “if you kill you’re as bad as they are” thing, though I get where it’s coming from. I think that’s all a very liberal position, and given that’s the current popular political thread, being the most palatable right wing thing (so ruling class likes/promotes it and it is readily accepted), it’s not surprising to see it everywhere, if somewhat frustrating. I think superhero media has had a strong negative effect with that.
(I’m not intending to argue, if it’s unclear; I’m hoping this comes across as me just speaking my thoughts on the matter and don’t sound bad [beyond my obviously very unpopular opinions/politics]) (also trying to keep it on the topic, at least some, of media discussion and not getting too deep and saying things I ought to keep to like tumblr or private conversations; really making my autism work hard here, deciding what’s socially acceptable in this context)
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I mean yeah it is. That’s what it is. Any established militia defending a community and enforce laws is fundamentally a police force. The ruling class have them prioritize their interests but if a communist society is established with more directly community-run groups, that’s still a police force.
No, I said I’m glad most media ISN’T against it.
Yeah, I get ya.