Forced Romance options to proceed.
I can understand it working in some works like Heart’s Choice Labeled games and Affairs of the Court.
But other than that no. Especially if you were focused on not rasing the relationship stats of any character at all.
I’m gonna throw a hot take in here without reading anything else in this thread lol.
I’m so burnt out on reading an IF with an interesting theme only to see “Until a body shows up on your doorstep.” or something similar. The whole trope of using a murder to kickstart the plot is just so boring now. Everyone tries to do the whole innocuous intro and end it with a prologue/chapter 1 cliffhanger of discovering the body and it just doesn’t have the same impact on me anymore. Literally this meme:
I’m not saying all of these IFs are bad because I still enjoy a lot of them, but the murder and especially the “MC is the prime suspect as the bodies keep falling!” themes are easily my least favorite aspects of all of them. I think part of it has to do with the fact that there are rarely any actual stakes. Everyone thinks MC did it, MC tears their hair out half the story, there’s one, maybe two, climactic moments where it’s all gonna get pinned on MC, and then everything wraps up very neatly and the characters move on like it never happened.
Maybe the authors really want to explore those stories, which is great and I support them in doing that to grow as a writer, but I worry that a lot of IFs believe that there has to be some form of high stakes tension in order to sell. Everyone has to have some integral action or fast paced tension to save the world or clear your name. Some more “mundane” plots can be really interesting, especially when interpersonal drama is the driving force of the story.
I wouldn’t necessarily label every IF without a “Save the World/Universe/Timeline” plot as Slice of Life, but without a better descriptor I’ll say that Slice of Life IFs are great, commercially viable, and I would love to see more of them. I think I would see a lot more of them if they just cut the murder subplots lol.
Yeah, you know it. And it was on that patreon that I got chewed out by the person saying that being a doormat and begging the RO for everything is part of this particular RO’s “trope”. I didn’t know there was a trope like that.
Does “romancing” him include kicking his balls so hard they pop right the hell off? If so, then sure, I’d love to play a MC who romances him. 
I say this and my favorite RO in Defiled Hearts is Marcus… and my MC is freaking nice to him. Mostly. I blame his dog. And niece, who makes me laugh.
If it’s the former, I’d be more likely to play it. The latter has begun making me ill, since it’s just an author excuse to play kick-the-MC through the RO.
I agree with this, to a point. ROs who aren’t all roses and sunshine are for more interesting, fun, and realistic. But when they continue to be rude to the MC, lead the MC on, waffle back and forth, and basically be huge jerks that are only decent enough to keep the MC on a string? That’s when I think the MC should be able to fight back. The waffling is the worst for me, I think. I hate when people are so damned indecisive–it’s one of my pet peeves.
When my buddy and I first started writing together, we did it via RP. At the time, we hadn’t merged our fantasy “worlds” and were playing with only his characters. One of the ones he dumped on me was this quiet, shy, soft-spoke… well, wuss. She couldn’t fight, was afraid of her own shadow, and was basically the antithesis of what I prefer to RP. By the time I got done with her, she was still quiet, reserved, and not fond of combat, but she learned to fight and could stick a knife in someone before they knew what happened. Oh yeah, and she excelled at mind control (hey, he gave her the abilities, don’t blame me for using them).
Agreed, though one example of voluntarily attempted murder that was a turn on was from Mr. and Mrs. Smith. There was another one, but I can’t remember what it was from (TV or movie?), but there was a scene where the two characters were busting up an apartment and the guy finally asks, “You want to kill me or fuck me?” She went with the latter… and I don’t blame her.
I’ll be honest if I described a tsundere as combative chances are I’d dislike them. Plus if it’s to the extent where I feel the need to clap back than I’d expect to hate each other.
There are so many other interesting flaws a character could have other than “being a complete asshole for no reason”. Why are we saying it is only either “knight in shining armor” or “complete douchebag”? That’s so boring! And I wasn’t knocking an enemies to lovers trope…I was just saying I hate it when you aren’t given the choice to snark/fight back. They don’t need to change just because the MC threw it back at them, but they would likely respect them a bit more for not being allowed to be walked all over. Slowly understanding eachother and coming around is what makes those routes interesting…but the MC shouldn’t have to sit back and take it every time until said dillweed decides to be nicer, was my point.
This person is dead. I’m suspect number one. Another Monday, I guess.
I think one the most difficult parts is for the author to define a plot for a Slice of Life game that can bring a lot of readers. Most of them think that they have to start their games with a big impression, with something memorable happening. I just want to see good characters and good writing.
Also, there are different views for a Slice of Life. I can totally see a Slice of Life game happening in a fantasy setting, but I think some authors are more focused on making realistic games, like in school or whatever. One way or another I would love to see more games like this too. I am skipping new games (Visual Novel, IFs) with the MC member of a monarchy or court intrigue setting because I am so tired of this.
Is mine too, though I always feel very conflicted about it.
They always say it’s the quiet ones you should fear LOL this is a character that I would totally like to play.
I like some tsunderes. Isn’t my favorite trope, but, for example, I really like Blane Rekner from When Twilight Strikes. The reason he hates MC is so petty that I think it’s funny. And I love how disarming can be just being nice with him. It’s a good dynamic. I also like Morkai from Soul Stone War. Something that we don’t have a lot and I would love to see more in IFs: blushing tsunderes. You know, “I-it’s not that I care about you or anything!” I would trade murdering tsunderes for blushing tsunderes any time of the day.
I’d love this. Something just light and fun in a fantasy setting.
I’ve always thought it’d be fun to play a One-Punch Man type of MC, without the fighting to save the world or whatever. And have it just suddenly happen to the MC, so they’re constantly breaking things and have trouble living life normally because they don’t know their own strength. Maybe I have a weird idea of fun, but as someone who could break a steel ball with a rubber hammer, I think it’d be hilarious to have that certain “ability” exponentially increased. (and can you imagine a RO’s response, lol? “Umm, no, I don’t want to have sex. You may break me!”
No offense to the “school” authors, but I am so sick of school games. Give me some freaking adults. Thank you so much for @CC_Hill for giving us Lemons… it’s so much fun to play an adult instead of kid.
Me, too. I mean, the guy murdered the MC’s family. I’m just hoping there’s some reason for it that isn’t just , “Well, they were there and the enemy, so…”
Yeah, I loved playing her. Even her mind control powers, she used them to free an entire village from being… basically Borg’d.
I like tsundered when they don’t stay stagnant with the MC. I need progress.
Not me. Give me the murdering ones. Blushing LIs make me feel like my MC is romancing a kid or something. Plus, I just don’t like it. At least, not when it’s extreme. A little blush here or there is cute when you have to work for it.
Tsunderes are frequently miswritten or just written as combative assholes.
A good tsundere romance is a proper treat. The big problem is it relies on the author treating the elements with care. The best ones recognize that a Tsundere’s problem lies with them, and does its best to showcase them trying to better themselves or work around their communication issues.
Too frequently authors get stuck on them getting physical or angry as a secondary emotion to their attraction as opposed to, say, giving us a scene with them trying to do or say something nice to the object of their affection and struggling.
As a school author none taken, and although I’m not sick of them yet, it makes me immensely happy to be now writing about MCs and characters who are in their 20s-40s 
I’m still waiting for a school game that centers around, or will let me play as, a nontraditional student.
Like studying a nontraditional subject? Or being an outsider to the school? (Or both, haha)
I agree, I’ve also noticed how common this is, though I would still read an IF that starts like this if the writing is good and the general premise for what happens after the whole “unexpected-but-will-almost-definitely-relate-back-to-the-MC-in-a-clever-way” murder is intriguing.
Basically it’s like, to me at least, the story doesn’t feel like the high-stakes story it’s supposed to be, simply because I’ve already come to sort of expect the way that the story will unfold.
As an extension of what you said, I’d just like to add that in general, I would love to see more IFs with lower stakes driving its central plot and conflicts.
Instead of always being about “Saving the world/universe/timeline”, I’d love to see more stories being about stakes that are not so urgent or world-changing.
More stories about simply “Making the world a slightly better place”, where “world” can be as personal as just your neighbourhood or workplace, and “slightly better” can be as gentle or dramatic as the author wishes. Because why does the world always need “saving”? Sometimes I even feel like it’s because it’s harder for authors to write about improving what we already have rather than just non-stop saving the universe from a nebulous force. (It’s harder because it forces us to actually address imperfections in the world around us rather than casting that aside to all unite against something that will actually just destroy us 
More stories about “Making myself (the MC) a slightly better person”, where again, “slightly better” can mean many things: self-improvement, better skills, better relationships with the people around you, or even “selfish” things like simply achieving a high rank in whatever fantasy or real-world system, or achieving a career goal like opening up a shop or getting a certain job.
A nontraditional student is one who attends college/university later in life than what is usually considered “college age.”
Not the same game but thank you @CC_Hill for giving me Mack
Yeah, I think the same. It would be a deal breaker ask why and he saying “just because”.
I think with Mihn from Touchstarved we will have both, blushing AND murdering.
Yes, there are some writers who, despite writing messed up characters, seem to treat them like little angels who did nothing wrong. We don’t have an opportunity to call their attitude in the game, and if the readers point out to the author how unfair this is, they got angry, because we have to accept their character just how they are and not talk back.
Oh I see! In the UK it’s usually called “mature student” - I’ve learned something new 
Which game? I played Creme (and, to be fair, enjoyed it despite the school setting, but I think I told you that!), but haven’t played the sequel/follow-up, since it was more school stuff.
One thing that could give the school setting but still have actual adults is grad school. It’s not uncommon for adults–after they’re working and established–to get a masters or doctorate. Several years back, I did that… got a masters in accounting. Most everyone in my classes were in the same boat as me, but I had some prereqs with some 20-year-olds. That was… interesting.
I don’t know. It might be an interesting way to take some of the school slice-of-lifes. Approach it from an adult perspective via the advanced degree route, or even an approach where the MC is an adult with plenty of life experience but “starting over”, so to speak. It’s definitely not unheard of to make career switches in your late 30s or 40s or beyond.
I see @AletheiaKnights already beat me to this. 
Who’s Mack? After seeing Lemons, I may need to check that out…
Yes! I love Touchstarved. There are about five WIPs over at itch that I am dying to see more of, and that’s one of them.
“If you don’t like the route, then play some other LI because I’m not changing anything from my original plan ever!”
It’s like they miss the entire point. And I think that’s intentional. 
Reading discussions like these always makes me feel relieved that I don’t write much romance. Like I can write epic quests to topple evil empires and clashes between superhuman beings but juggling all the facets of romance (at least in IF) seems like it’d be virtually impossible to me lol.
They’re both in the same universe as Creme (and yes you did mention you liked it - I greatly appreciate it especially as school isn’t your thing!) Noblesse Oblige is a shorter gothic-flavoured game about shady goings-on on where you are a conversation partner to teach someone your language on a creepy island (in that one you’re in your early 20s and dropped out of university for a variety of reasons).
Honor Bound just has the first chapter up so far, and in that one you’re a military person who, because of a customisable misfortune and injury, have been assigned as a bodyguard to a fancy scientist’s daughter at a boarding school. So it has a school environment but there is a lot more wrangling students as an adult rather than as a peer, and interacting with teachers and other staff. (You can be in your 20s, 30s or 40s and the ages of the romanceable characters are 25, 28, 35, 41 and 44).
I loved Professor of Magical Studies for this.
@dumpling-clouds I liked reading what you said about stakes. I think there can be a lot of drama to be had in smaller-scale but still emotionally-weighty events.
Bleh. Like it’s ok if the person they like is genuinely odd. Like just watched steins gate and the main couple were at each others throat’s for a lot of it because the mc genuinely does things that don’t makes sense to others and acts like a supervillain for his friends
Or God Eater has one girl who is nice to everyone really but Flippy floppy on a comic relief character, one because he is odd and two kinda just declared himself to be her brother when he heard her actual one died. Which was just him being super nice but you know.
And I remember playing Mabinogi, there was a squire girl. She kinda did the very big standard routine. Bad at cooking, hates you (because you’re a captain without formal training). And by the time you do all her quests she’s just doing it to be playful and got better at cooking.
The guy tsun of the group kinda just turns from ignoring you to giving you smiles and accepting your presence.
Otherwise a lot of times tsunderes tend to swing between stoic which I don’t mind or abusive.
I also feel like that’s harder to go around with since it’s inherently taking agency away from the player for self improvement. Plus even in a non threatening setting it’s very proactive. It kinda asks the question of why did I suddenly do this as opposed to I’m forced to act.
@EvilChani @RenataC Thank you for the shout-outs. And Chani, regarding Mack, he is like Mason from Wayhaven, but you have to suffer through a lot of fantasy content to get some interaction with him. But I’ll say that his spice scene is worth it. 
The Midnight Saga here. Try the free demo. If you don’t like the vibe, don’t force it. 
It was my first published game and the flaws outweigh the goods. The steamy scenes might be what’s keeping this game alive.
