Choice of Rebels: Uprising — Lead the revolt against a bloodthirsty empire!



They are based on the background information of choice of Rebels, where we interpret perception , potential happenings on past, present and future as well as personal role play within the game :slight_smile:


You have to understand many of us have been reading this 6 years previous launching the beta thread and have discussing a lot with the author. However most is in game As Insane replay value. One play could give a totl different lore. For instance try a Mara run as Aristo focus and charisma nacionalist that doesn’t stop harrowing and use no violence and without Breden. you will find yourself in almost another game


I can’t speak to @Havenstone future intentions, but except for one final stretch near the very end beta-testing for XoR has always been totally open on the forum. Hopefully he’ll post a shiny new beta/discussion thread for part 2 sometime early next year. :persevere:

Agreed, the usual beta process is not a process I feel comfortable committing myself to, due to rather unpredictable demands on my time. Well you know what that’s like too I guess.


I hope so and hope the openness continue and don’t go the orthodox choice of games process or no way I could be part of process. And testing this is really fun due saint Havie has lot oof patience


I too prefer the open beta process. I could not guarantee my availability for a closed beta but open beta lets me contribute as time permits.


Same here. My schedule has become too unpredictable as well.


Self-correcting problem after I establish Hegemonic courts. Once enough Alastors are Harrowed for their crimes, their replacements will get with the program.

Remember that a couple of generations ago, the Alastors could be counted on for incorruptibility. I figure that the new generation will quickly learn that if I establish functioning courts of justice. (If you ask how the Alastors will be policed, the answer is “they don’t have Phalangites or Theurges, and the courts do.”)


I still wouldn’t call them Alastors again, nor structure them the same way, really that whole agency is irrevocably tainted, imho.


That would probably have to happen to rebuild trust between the police force and the people, as if they continue with the name Alastor, then their image will still be tainted in the minds of the generation that lived during the period of Alastor History where they were heavily corrupted


No it isn’t. This isn’t about the caste system, it’s about competence. Police investigators who can’t read and are incapable of accurately recording the testimony of witnesses are useless as investigators. The ones who learn to read and write are welcome to apply for higher positions, but if you can’t read or write than your usefulness in conducting police investigations is very limited.

The hegemony is a big place, that’s a lot of helots to teach literacy and numeracy to, and your luck with teaching most of the adults in all probability will be far below your target, and it will be decades before the children are old enough to take over even if you can find enough teachers for them.

It isn’t that I don’t want to stock the upper ranks with helot veterans, it’s that I think it would be a disaster to do so. They can’t read or write, even addition and subtraction above ten would likely be a problem. Good look putting them in charge of more people than they can count on their fingers and toes. There would be no record keeping because they can’t read or write. Imagine dealing with worker and workplace issues as well as police brutality when there are no records. They wouldn’t even be able to read the laws they’re supposed to be enforcing. You’re just going to end up with something very similar to the Alastors you got rid of. Good luck with all that.

I’m doubtful that most priests and nobles would want to sully themselves by working as gendarmes. It’s work for commoners, not the upper classes.



I think you’re underestimating how many we can teach during the years of rebellion and how much territory we’ll de-facto control in game 5. Obviously we can only fully implement all the new stuff in the areas under our control. Law enforcement and the army are also the most critical priorities to stock with former helot veterans in the upper ranks .

Besides, when it comes to reading and writing the yeomen, at least in our home area of the Rim are barely any better educated then most helots in these subjects. So tapping them for the police force would result in the same problems, just with slightly less loyal people. The merchant class/caste, at least in our starting neck of the woods seems like it would be too small to fill all of the crucial spots, and my mc would prefer them in the parts of the bureaucracy less concerned with the application of force.

Maybe the currently oppressed (but technically “free”) urban masses can be part of the solution, assuming we can win their loyalty and assuming their education and record keeping skill are any better than those of our rural yeomen, coming from a provincial backwater like we do, but they would be unfamiliar with much of the territory outside the cities, which would be a big drawback to placing them in charge of rural police.

If they would my mc would not trust them to actually enforce the new laws anyway, so it’s a moot point but there are likely to be much more like the “noble” mc who are barely nobiity anymore anyway and might have to take any paying job they can get post-revolution. My mc certainly won’t be subsidizing the priests and nobles any longer.
In ancien-regime France they obviously found nobles, or at least their lesser (and some bastard) sons who would, but that’s not a route that would sit at all well with my mc.

Most organizations tend to be pyramids, especially the military and law-enforcement. So the stocking will begin with the very highest ranks and work downwards from there. Obviously, I’m anticipating more success with educating some of our adult veterans then you do, but I think my mc would at least be able to find former helot veterans, now used to commanding large numbers to fill such positions as the provisional minister of police and immediately downwards. After that come the most loyal yeoman and merchant veterans, etc, etc, and like you I will stock the lower ranks, as in most of the common officers with former helots too.

True and my mc has little trouble with stocking the relatively vast middle ranks with anybody (except former priests and nobles) who can meet the criteria, but he’d need to keep the upper ranks loyal. So unless he somehow has enough loyal veterans that he trusts from the former merchant caste that’s still going to fall to the better-educated helot veterans.


So you are going to disband the army and police in their entirety, consider all former soldiers and police ineligible for the job, and replace them all with peasants?


The former Alastors are not merely ineligible they are also to a man criminals themselves, as our impromptu trial makes clear. Apart from that one kid, who might be as much of a pink unicorn as Simon, the out of town Alastors were only spared for lack of evidence. Had there been helots from their hometowns and villages present, they’d have certainly joined the body pile of Rim Square’s “finest”. Needless to say, you cannot build a police force out of a single, non-corrupt Alastor kid.

As for the army, I expect most of the current phalangites will not survive the rebellion and will be killed in action. Their mostly green replacements would likely not be of the highest concern and especially for the army we’ll probably have our own core of hardened veterans. My mc will see what can be done about some of the non-noble rank and file, but all Hegemony officers are simply too dangerous to ever trust.

Edit @Eiwynn @Gower why did skynet just remove my quoting of cascat?


Well fortunately you have a real world model to prove the efficacy of your plan: Iraq. You are sounding a lot like Paul Bremer comrade… “Extreme De-Ba’athification” got a 2016 ring to it yeah?


Iraq did not replace the former regular army with the core of the rebel army (or at least not the core of rebel army that had actually won on its own). As for the police force, again, given the widespread corruption of the former Alastors they would indeed be ineligible for police duties. For one they are far too accustomed to all of the extrajudicial privileges of the Alastors that the new police force simply won’t have. The freedom to rape unpersons for example. For one because there will be no more unpersons/blood cattle and two because rape is a crime, as are theft and assault. Given that those three things seem to be the main activities of Rim Square’s “finest”, yeah, even for those let go for lack of evidence there won’t be room for them in any new police forces.

De-Hegemonization/Karagondization and de-theocratization of the government and military are absolute top priorities, yeah.


On the contrary Shiite militia and and Peshmerga were key elements in the plan to rebuild both institutions, though Bremer’s definition of a Ba’athist as disqualifying criteria were not as extensive as yours by comparison.

Presuming we will “win on our own” is a false assumption for one since @Havenstone has made plain our MC and their faction will be one of many standing on the corpse of the Hegemony.


Unless we’re gonna take massive Hallassurq “assistance” it still won’t be comparable to the US installed and backed new Iraqi regime.


Ok I mean I think that’s beside the point. In any event you will need that level of power to disband the police and army completely and to ensure you don’t rehire the same people. The Hegemony is way bigger than Iraq as well both in terms of population and land.


Since rehiring the same people would only lead to the slow harrowing of any helot mc, I think that’s less of a risk than you seem to be implying. I don’t think those people would still want the job, if it meant taking orders from “animals” or sub-humans anyway. So again, I don’t think there’s a big chance the surviving Alastors and phalangites would even want to work for my mc’s faction.

Given that we’re apparently gonna be unable to control all of it anyway…


On the contrary, it’s because I recognize just how much territory there will be to police that I’m skeptical that we’ll have enough literate, numerate helots to run the police force required.

So you think someone who just learned his ABC’s and can read simple sentences like “See Spot run.” is qualified to determine military strategy, let alone run a logistical supply line? This strikes me as unrealistically optimistic.

We do live in a backwater.

Your MC seems to be falling into an “Us” vs “Them” mentality with “Us” being helots, and “Them” being everyone else. I suspect there will be plenty of loyalty issues for your MC among helots as well, especially those who don’t take well to your MC’s anti-religious bent.

In my view, you’re going to get more competent people if you allow them to select the positions that call to them. Or are you trying to create a new caste system with the helots on top?

I suspect they’re the population the Alastors currently draw from.

Sure, you may get a noble or priest to take the top positions, but they’re unlikely to lower themselves to the role of beat cop. And we both know you’re not going to appoint nobles and priests to the top positions. So like you said, it’s moot.

I expect quite a few of those veteran helots will turn into serious sectarian problems for you, stirring up hatred with extreme responses that work better on a battlefield than a time of peace. But they don’t really know any better, because that’s that’s all they know how to do.

Every time we have a conversation like this your goals and methods put me in the mind of Maoist China. I’m doubtful you will even be able to stop the spread of anti-intellectualism once you put into power an army of poorly educated people with a vested interest in keeping their better educated former oppressors down. Your own revolution may even turn on you if you attempt to reign them in.