Choice of Rebels: Uprising — Lead the revolt against a bloodthirsty empire!

choice-of-games
high-fantasy
gender-choice

#1824

Nope, my noble has been keeping mum on their actual thoughts in order to maintain flexibility. The ideal society they want to build is one of a meritocratic bend, public schooling, cosmopolitan bend, and a thriving market based economy where one can get goods from all over the former Hegemony in their local backyard.


#1825

My noble is trying to bring the power back to the nobles, by making them the only candidates for Theurge training. Also what’s your source for this:

Because I cannot imagine the noble MC’s father allowing that.


#1826

As a named female Helot, without the means to pay for staff, and a confidant of your mother. She most certainly would step in and help if her duties permit.


#1827

Has been the death knell for feudal nobility historically, as well as the type of chattel slavery your American South practiced.
Problem is the Hegemony economy runs more on blood then it does on money at present, which is probably a big part of why the landed nobility is still richer and more powerful and influential than the city merchants.
Money (whether it is gold or paper) won’t help buy food that simply isn’t there and the current crop of guild merchants are not used to functioning in a (mostly) “open” economy with free competition from their fellows in Halassur or even the next city over. Except for a trickle of luxury goods internal trade seems to be more of a centrally run command economy and external trade, except for an even tinier trickle of luxury goods, supplied mostly by foreign merchants at that seems to be next to nonexistent.

Transitioning to the type of economy you want seems to at the very least combine all the problems of the disintegration of Austria-Hungary with all the problems of the disintegration of the Soviet-Union.

Well, he didn’t have the money for anything better, plus he doesn’t seem to care all that much about his kid either way.

Yep, that’s the caste system and that needs to be broken.

And this would be the problem of the vast majority of current “nobles”. They, or at least the vast majority of them, sincerely believe helots are sub-human and overcoming that, if it is possible at all would require both breaking the caste system and be a generational effort. Even the tiny minority still believe a smart helot is at most only a bit smarter than a dumb noble. The pink unicorns like Simon can on the other hand probably be counted on the fingers of one hand. Which means it is not of that much use to my mc to put undue effort into “allying” with the nobility, especially since it costs him helot, yeoman, poor urban dweller and likely even some potential merchant support.

Respecting their angels-given “freedom” to rape and torture helots for whatever silly thing they want, whenever they feel like it, because they’re not human? Yeah, that one is not going to happen.

From the actual game

Horion hesitates for a long moment, then ventures, “How much do you think you’ll get for {zhim}, {kuria}? Is it worth souring the sympathies of every noble who hears the tale?”
*choice
#“All five who weren’t already soured? Perhaps six?”
“Ah, {kuria}, {kuria}. Do you truly think no
*if aristo
other noble could travel a road like yours?”
*if helot
noble could see a helot rising as the hope of Shayard?"

And

#“Oh, come. Every noble knows that ransom is part of war.”
Horion shakes his head. "But this isn’t war. Not to them.
*if helot
Not—if you’ll hear it from me, Captain—from a helot.

In any case the nobles won’t take any helot rebellion seriously and by the time they do the Hegemony will be weak enough that they would opt to start their own rebellions over joining one started by a helot. Either way they are the enemy or at the absolute best a very temporary ally that we’d better stab in the back before they get the chance to do the reverse.


#1828

image https://media.tenor.com/images/82d5ebedf0bb718f9be2e80800d64656/tenor.gif

You missed my point completely. Which is part of my point in a nutshell. People are wrapped up in their values to the point that they refuse to question them or understand the other side. Breaking decades of indoctrination and antipathy is difficult. But it is better than committing genocide because you can’t be arsed to try.

Note: I don’t want things to remain the same and she would want to break the power of the nobility and shift it to a class of meritocratic bureaucrats. She distrusts the nobility as an institution of power because they will place their self interest first.


#1829

Pretty much. My Alya is pro-aristocracy but she’ll still end up bettering the helots’ lives, if only by cracking down on the Alastors and switching to a Halassurq blood economy.


#1830

Bold of you to assume that institution as a whole is even salvageable. You might be better off replacing it with a new law enforcement agency or multiple agencies, who can also check each other somewhat. You’d also need to replace most/all of the Alastors as most of them are criminals, thieves and rapists themselves.


#1831

For exactly this reason I’m inclined to replace the Alastors entirely with a police force composed of mostly former helots officered by literate yeomen and maybe merchant’s sons. I want to entrench the ex-helotry in the power structure so the rights the revolution gains them aren’t lost over time, but lack of education makes it unwise to give them the highest level police jobs unless like Elery they’re willing and able to pick up the needed education on the job.


#1832

That’s still keeping the caste system intact :frowning: , Though my mc might end up doing something not too dissimilar, in practice that is as everybody ought to be promoted on merit. Though there are exceptions to this in practice of course, in my mc’s case former priests and nobles are too dangerous and subversive to entrust with the job of actually enforcing the new laws. I think my mc will also have gotten enough helots up to the job to stock the higher ranks with them too, though the middle ones might indeed be filled with former yeoman, those free urbanites and the occasional merchant’s kid who has more of a head for investigation than business.

The crucial difference with your plan seems to be that my mc also wants to stock the upper ranks with his own former helot veterans. Will it be possible to get enough former helots educated well enough to fill the vast middle layers, likely not. But to get some educated enough to fill the key positions at the top, I do think that might just be manageable, seeing how far some of his fellow helots have already come in less than a single year.
It is the former priests and nobles my mc is most afraid, less so the other castes. Thus far he seems to be working well-enough with the yeoman and merchants.

Eventually we’ll probably need to set up police academies as part of the education system anyway, so by then former caste should not matter all that much anymore.


#1833

Now since you mentioning it… i think Choice of Rebel initial background setting from Book 1 lack a “respectable” or “Anti-Villain” type of Aristocrat non-player character who gave a more “Neutral” perception towards the Aristocrat as a whole… In general , i could see that the back story was concentrated on the cruelty of the Aristocrat which didn’t let the readers perceive there “might” be a “good” Noble society among them, when MC play as a “good” Aristocrat … he/she might be the Only Aristocrat who uphold the Noble standard of a nobility , the other character who share the same sentiment was Suzanne/Simon who we may not met in the story… hence in general the tone was set that “all Aristocrat” are Evil in this world, which is why when player play as a helot … it might feel “weird” for a helpt MC to pro-Aristocrat :slight_smile:

If there was a certain "well known " Aristocrat character in the back story, who even though we may not met… but set the tone that not all aristocrats are Evil, it will be more believable for a Helot MC to be pro-Aristocrat …

I think towards the end, there was mentioning of other noble character who was oppose to the cruelty … hopefully in the next book there might be more alternate perspective towards the Aristocrat Society … and there is still the prince right ? we will have to see how is the personality of this prince/princess who will perhaps alter the perspective of a Helot MC…

In the story of Robin Hood Universe, there was backstory of King Richard the LionHeart and Ivanhoe who serve as a standard bearer for the Aristocrat society … which at least some commoners will still referring to such figures that they were willing to stay loyal to the Aristocrat Society due to their respect to those figures :slight_smile:


#1834

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! :rofl: :rofl::rofl:

The “prince” you’re talking about here is, I assume, the heir to the thaumatarch, the Diadoch, prince(ss) nippletwister? They may be many things, but they are also one of the people who fully benefit from the whole scala of cruelty of the Hegemony. If anybody in the game is going to make Hector Keriatou look like a choir-boy it’s probably going to be them. Helot lives, particularly that of a single helot are probably as inconsequential to them as swatting a fly or stepping on a bug.
I fully expect any “romance” between them and the helot mc to be nothing more than being reduced to their personal sex-toy. Aristo mc, being a lowly provincial “noble” is probably already even barely human to them, helot mc would probably be nothing more then perhaps a vaguely amusing toy, if that.

If you hadn’t noticed the peddling of fairy tales like that is probably going to be the providence of the Laconnier rebellion, trying to harken back to the supposedly good and benevolent kings and queens of old Shayard. My mc, naturally, wouldn’t believe a single word of it.

The problem is that while some rare priests and nobles might oppose the cruelty they do not oppose the caste system, nor do they see helots as fully human. They are, I believe, more comparable to our modern crusaders against animal cruelty. None, but the most lunatic fringe of those, however, are for giving animals truly equal rights, the vote, etc, etc.They might seem more benign then the current crop of rulers, but you’ve got to wonder how those ideals will hold up once they start to more fully comprehend the nature and horrors of the blood economy, as the Hegemony mages hide the truth of that even from most priests and nobles.


#1835

Have you any idea how the renegade mage manage to maintain his power without harrowing ? :-):thinking:

Don’t worry, i plan to replace them with either myself or Suzanne/ Simon :slight_smile:

But perhaps they were the good and benevolent Kings and Queens of the old line … like the line of Númenor in Lord of the Rings :slight_smile:


#1836

True, doesn’t matter in the slightest though, because the contemporary reality is far different from their near mythical reigns and the caste system and slavery are both institutionalized as well as the fact that the realm now functions on a blood economy. Even the Laconniers would have to deal with those facts and my mc is pretty sure he won’t like their ideas of how to deal with it in the slightest. Besides they let Hector be a Laconnier, that alone makes my mc seriously doubt their judgement. Actually it wouldn’t surprise me if Hector turned out to be the hidden Laconnier “heir”.
However whoever they are the other fact that remains is that they are probably no more educated or prepared to take the reins of power than my mc himself, so there’s no reason in my mc’s mind why he should bow down to them just because of some ancient fairytales.

My guess is that he isn’t. Or more to the point that he is siphoning power from the wards themselves somehow and as we all know they are powered by harrowing on a massive scale. Which would mean that, albeit indirectly, Sarcifer, still draws his power from Harrowing. That he might not do the dirty deed himself would not change that, assuming my speculation is correct.


#1837

What ??? Hector ?? :-):fearful: and @poison_mara will faint when she knows about this, or she will pro-Hector nonetheless ? :-):thinking:

Anyway, i won’t be supporting Laconnier if Hector is the heir … i will push Suzanne / Simon to the throne no matter what …


#1838

Relax, almost everything I say here is either roleplay or thought provoking intelligent discussion baseless speculation.
Speaking of speculating, anything you feel you need to weigh in on @Havenstone or are you just content watching us blindly fumble and stumble about from the top of the world? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I’d say not the only purpose, but certainly one of them and one that would be shared by the security forces of any new state too. That being said the current Alastors have powers and jurisdiction that are too broad and the new state having a gendarmerie of its own does not prevent the formation of other new, rural and municipal police forces to exist alongside them, as they do in many countries around the world.
That’s part of what I meant by multiple new law enforcement agencies.

Remember all law-enforcement agencies are to some extent designed to project the might of the state.


#1839

Are the Alastors or anything like them even necessary? They seem like an expensive and deeply authoritarian force whose only purpose is to remind everyone of the might of the hegemony. I’d rather just disband them and go with a more bottom up, traditional law enforcement of sheriffs and bailiffs.

My very Karl Pilkington esque attitude toward alot of the Hegemony’s institutions are going to be basically: “What are you for? We don’t need that. Get rid of it.”

Far too expensive, IMO. I’d much rather a more decentralized system of law enforcement. I don’t really see what use a state police would be to a medieval kingdom.


#1840

A purely decentralized system of law enforcement is likely going to be ineffective, particularly when it comes to making sure the new laws of the new central government are actually, properly enforced. State or national law enforcement agencies can also, if necessary, be used to deal with corrupt or out of control local ones. My mc is not prepared to surrender that lever of power.

The Hegemony is not a medieval kingdom, we just come from one of the poorest and least significant parts of it. Much like in some parts of China there are still dirt farmers not too far removed from the stone age, right @Cataphrak ?

Eek! :scream_cat: :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Not even the backing of a million eclectoi will make Hector into a remotely fit ruler for anything, so for your sake I hope he doesn’t turn out to be the Laconnier heir.


#1841

I don’t really intend to allow anything like the hegemony to exist again and will lead my band of crusaders to dismantle it entirely and restore the pre-Hegemony governments of the world, with Aekos and it’s surroundings itself becoming my own “Papal States” to enforce the new world order of free kingdoms and city states through mostly soft power means. I and my successors will not tolerate a HRE-like entity.

Also, yes I will be personally putting the crown on a Laconnier heir’s head to rule Shayard with the backing of the Elect, boo! :smiling_imp:

I doubt he is, but if it comes to that Simon/Suzanne’s getting the crown after I find a totally non-forged document proving they’re the rightful heir to Shayard. (Hm, I might do that regardless.)


#1842

I am confused. I’ve explored Choice of Rebels thoroughly and yet many of the things mentioned in this thread are perfectly alien to me. Is this thread also serving as a closed beta discussion?


#1843

Centralised bureaucracies keep everyone uniformly on message and in conformance with wider policy goals. Letting decentralised authorities dispense justice means giving them the authority to not only build rival power bases, but also derail any form of political or cultural uniformity by giving them the ability to make “compromises with local traditions and conditions”.

A decentralised law enforcement system means an increasing sense of regionalism, to the point where individuals see themselves as loyal to a region over their central government. When enforcement of a theoretically uniform code of justice and theoretically uniform policy becomes regionalised, then the regions cannot operate on a fair an equitable basis with the state or vice-versa. To build a functioning modern state, you need some form of unified institutions capable of exercising force, which is something early-modern states trying to impose their will on fractious and often rebellious feudal lords knew far too well.