Choice of Rebels: Uprising — Lead the revolt against a bloodthirsty empire!

My MC would trust Alless Stonehewer and Pin voting over Radmar any day. Pin is not even an adult yet and has already demonstrated bravery, intelligence, trustworthiness, and an ability to lead. My MC’s opinion of Alless Stonehewer shot sky-high when she was pleading for the band not to hurt Yed Gaverne while big tough Radmar was busy being terrified.

There is a difference between what the rebellion’s own propaganda claims and what the Hegemony’s propaganda claims. My MC could not be happier that:

The Ecclesiasts consider you to be Xaos incarnate. All across the Hegemony, prayers are offered hourly for your demise.

The Hegemony itself is giving my MC the equivalent of free hourly letters of recommendation across the entire Hegemony to every potential enemy of the Hegemony. This may be a double-edged-sword for the Hegemony because I suspect the Hegemonic Canon probably claims the “Angels” or their Eclectoi will always come forth to defeat Xaos. This reminds me of the situation in David Weber’s Safehold series. On a side note, I think David Weber is an excellent author and I love that series, but I digress.

The relevant aspect of that series to this game universe is the following: The entire planet Safehold is ruled by a religion that had been murderously and knowingly created as a lie to suppress technology for centuries to hide the remnant of humanity from alien extermination. The protagonist wakes in a robotic body after 1000 years powered down to restore humanity’s knowledge and make ready for the next encounter with the aliens. The fake religion of Safehold claimed that “Angels” would always appear to successfully defeat “demons” should “demons” return. This complicated things for that religion on the matter of whether or not to accuse the protagonist of being a demon for that would raise the awkward question of why “Angels” were either not returning or not succeeding against a “demon”.

My MC believes claiming to be a Goete is as much a lie as the things the Hegemony claims about itself. My MC thinks that these towers of lies will come crashing down sooner or later and would prefer to build on what my MC believes to be the truth instead. The fact that so few people have any knowledge of the word “wisard” means my MC can define the word by my MC’s actions and the novelty of it will be useful for drawing attention in the same way as if the MC uses wisardry openly over the winter during the first temple raid and calls it wisardry to counter the priest’s rhetoric.

I also personally find it funny that out-of-character it seems the beings known as “Angels” do exist in this game, but if they rarely make themselves known to anyone who does not already devoutly believe in them then my MC will probably never believe they exist. My MC is pragmatic enough to reevaluate that if my MC encountered concrete evidence of their existence, but it would not noticeably change my MC’s actions. Even if beings known as “Angels” existed, my MC thinks mere existence would not necessarily mean they are divine or entitled to order around humans no matter how powerful such “Angels” are.

Worrying about competing with fellow revolutionary states is being insufficiently cosmopolitan. There won’t be fellow revolutionary states if my MC’s wishes prevail because what would otherwise have been new states will instead become the second highest level of government under a federal system. There certainly have been multiple historical examples of multi-lingual multi-cultural empires in real world history. As far as long-lasting republics or democracies go, Switzerland has four official languages but forged a national identity via fighting for freedom against seemingly formidable odds. Additionally the rebellion’s army as a national institution could help forge a national identity along the lines of Nigeria with around 400 languages.

On the subject of the eventual size of the MC’s future state, I find it amusing that both Horion and Linos misunderstood both of the answers my MC would be most tempted to give.

“I’ll not stop until we’ve built a new Hegemony over all the lands in Karagon’s thrall.”

Horion and Linos seem to interpret this answer as meaning the entirety of the current Hegemony.

“I’ll free all the lands currently in Karagon’s thrall, and lead as many as will follow me.”

My MC usually states this which I think both Linos and Horion interpret as meaning bigger than Shayard and smaller than the whole Hegemony. My MC never actually claimed to be content with stopping at toppling the Hegemony. My MC currently does not seem to know enough about governments outside of the Hegemony to know which if any could become actual friends, and which are simply today’s ally but tomorrow’s foe.

There is a difference in capability between clerks and front-line field troops. A capital with its military high command is indeed likely bound to have many clerks but field troops are a different matter.

I would contend that the Mongol Empire as the largest contiguous empire in history and the second largest empire overall certainly qualified as a superpower. The Mongol Empire was far less successful at sea than on land. Subutai managed to project power by land at great distances.

@Havenstone I am still hopeful that Yebben will become a RO. If my MC ever gets the chance to give a gift to RO Yebben, I was wondering whether the equivalent of Braille books exist in this game universe. If Braille books do exist, they are just what my MC would think to give to Yebben as a gift.

@Havenstone On the subject of bugs and possible bugs:

I’m just curious, but is there a reason why we cannot assign literacy lessons during week 10 of winter?

I have not seen the scene with Zvad as deputy discussing Elery keeping him company lately. As I think my choices have not changed, I assume the game code has changed but it is hard for me to know whether that is a bug or intended.

If the MC starts a physical romance with Kalt on the sheep raid in Chapter 3, Kalt still asks about starting a romance in Chapter 4 acting as if it had not already happened.

If the MC chooses never to start a romance with Kalt, then in Chapter 4, the following screen appears which I think is missing a page break:

When facing the first Plektos during the summer fight, even a skeptical MC swears by Xthonos instead of Rhupos.


Based on the source code as of the end of the open beta:

[i]Xthonos, this is such a terrible plan.[/i] For an instant, swaying on the edge of the cliff, you see your followers in the grove far below.

I think the problem is the word Xthonos instead of $!{oath}.

After the summer fighting when the MC heads into the Xaos-lands, even a skeptical MC swears by Xthonos instead of Rhupos.


Based on the source code at the end of the open beta:

Just before you pass out of eyeshot, you find yourself pausing; something is absent, something wrong. It takes you several moments to realize that you're braced for a final, caustic word from your father. Xthonos knows he'd have had plenty to say about this mad plan.

I think the problem is again the word Xthonos instead of $!{oath}.

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The latter will require a certain bit of the former competition. Remember, once you’ve completed the “takeover” phase of the revolution, you need to consolidate power, and judging by the blueprint we’ve received, there’ll be at least one more bloody drowning after Aekos falls.

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This will always remain a difference of opinion, ideally most or all 14 year olds should still be in education or vocational training under the new system and not already busy becoming politicians, 20 is generally young enough for that.

Indeed, no such thing as bad publicity, at least at this stage in the rebellion any publicity is good publicity.

Oh, mine would agree with you about that, but he needs to call himself something and Goete is the best possible choice for him, Theurge is obviously out of the question and who the heck even knows what f*** wisard even means anymore. Wisard would also tie him too much to ancient Shayard, which given his opinion of the current cream of the crop of Shayard’s so-called “nobility” is an order he despises only slightly less then the Hegemony itself. Tying himself to that historical abomination by calling himself a “wisard” is also obviously out for him, which leaves Goete as the only thing with enough “brand name recognition” to be worth his while.

Ah, mine thinks they don’t exist at all and are a mere figment of the imagination of those who do believe fervently in them. Still if ever confronted with more compelling “evidence”, well my mc already openly proclaims them to be Xthonos’ band of merry murderers, so he’d still retain an universally negative opinion of them.

Perhaps, but then paranoia to some extent is a natural instinct for my mc that has helped him survive thus far, but that doesn’t mean it is without drawbacks.

While some form of decentralization is pretty much inevitable that doesn’t mean my mc would particularly like federalism if he had more of a working knowledge of it, since he already fears any Koinon would be a mere plaything of the nobles and merchants and not do anything for the general population at all.
Again if he knew more about it he would fear that federalism would put him in the role of a largely ceremonial president, if he is indeed to have any role at all, which would be something he would despise.

Hmmm…a rather difficult road in a world where citizen armies are largely unknown, it would have to be carefully managed to prevent the emergence of a new warrior culture that is likely to devolve into a new “nobility” from simply replacing the old. That said my mc would be in favour of a Swiss style army, but that means finding a relatively inexpensive in both time and money way of involving most citizens in it at some point in their lives, which means you’d need an easy to use weapon, like those rifles to form the backbone of it.
Since you need to train good swordsmen and archers for their whole life, not to mention combat theurges. Building a new army only around those people will just create a new warrior culture, which is one of the things that needs to be avoided if we want to ever create a better system.

Largely true, but we do know Hallassur is the main competitor, a slave-based society (at least to some extent) and not to be trusted. Barring the abhumans, the unquiet dead and whatever remains of old Brorachia other powers would lie across the oceans and while my mc would like maritime expansion and trade with them their direct influence in our affairs is likely to be minimal.
The abhumans I think are our best bet to find a friendly power as the unquiet dead seem to dislike all living things and if something functional remains of old Brorachia deep in the hinterlands of the now Xaos lands they have good reasons to hold grievances against us.

There’s almost always some of those near or in the capital too, even if it’s only the presidential/royal guards.

It was also less successful at being an actual empire. In any case their land power projection basically relied on cavalry an arm of the military my mc is extremely likely to disfavour due to his personal circumstances.
The Hegemony currently also has so much unused maritime potential both for the navy and trade it’s practically criminal in how it’s being squandered at the moment. Plus the signature work that my mc would want to put his name to, being the grand canal, would drastically enhance the nation’s naval and maritime trade potential while doing nothing at all for it’s land based power or trade.
Indeed it might significantly detract from overland trade if anything.

It will also require a strong central state, at least for my mc to make it clear to the federal republics that slavery and the caste system are no longer going to be tolerated.

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I whole-heartedly agree with this. Hell, I know it is beyond the scope of the game, but I would have loved to given some additional non-combat responsibilities to Pin and Alless, sort of building them up for when they get to older to take a position of responsibility in the rebellion.

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I’m not sure if by competition you refer to former officials of the Hegemony or to members of would-be fellow revolutionary states. My MC intends to rely heavily on friendly merchants and would consider picking non-Ecclesiast former Hegemony officials on a case-by-case basis. As for members of would-be fellow revolutionary states, my MC would prefer they join the MC’s government. My MC is expecting merely toppling the Hegemony to take decades so whatever my MC’s long-term goals, my MC does not expect to achieve everything quickly.

Good point about “wisard” being tied potentially too closely to ancient Shayard. My MC’s concern is also partly that claiming to be a Goete acknowledges the existence of Xthonos and the “Angels” whereas my MC is going to publicly deny the existence of both unless proven otherwise.

Regarding Halassur:

@Havenstone had commented:

Out of curiosity, did I ever actually say that Halassur is a slave society? I just did a search and couldn’t find it.

and

The Halassurq Empire did traditionally enslave captives in war – and still does, when it can get them. But three centuries of increasing military focus on a single front, where prisoners are scarce because of heavy reliance on Theurgy and Plektoi, have changed its society in lots of ways.

Some of the key ones I’ve hinted at already:
Their curt speech carries faintly across the ravine. “Have a care to catch every child. Alive.” Is that a tremor in the Theurge’s voice? “They’re the most important ones to bring back for punishment.”
“Harrowing children, kurios?” The flatness of the Phalangite’s tone perfectly conveys his disgust. “Was that not why we fought the Halassurqs?”
“These are traitors and criminals, corrupted beyond repair by the devil ${lname}. Not true children. Find them all.”

And I’ve tweaked the intro to the Carles prologue so it will now read: “The Halassurq Empire had spent most of the past three centuries at war with the Hegemony. Though peace had prevailed for over a decade, they were still best known as child-killers whose religion was a blasphemy against Almighty Xthonos.”

I recall a discussion that the wars with Halassur involved the Hegemony trying to attack in that direction so I’m not sure whether Halassur is actually the main competitor. The fact that Halassur allied with the old Nyrnakan Republic against the Hegemony would at least be one thing in Halassur’s favor from my MC’s perspective and though other details about Halassur would repulse my MC, my MC would want those details verified rather than trusting Hegemony propaganda.

The Abhuman Federation does seem to be a promising potential ally. My MC would withhold judgment on the Unquiet Dead until my MC knows more about them.

If nothing else, living forever in so far as the undead still live would seem to my MC to be a better plan than dying of old age not that my MC personally expects to live long enough to die of old age even if the rebellion succeeds.

As for Broracha, if there is anything left and I got the impression that the original Stormwright might still live, foreign relations with Broracha might depend on Broracha’s propaganda for the last few centuries. Did Broracha blame the rulers of the Hegemony or the people of the Hegemony for everything that happened? If Broracha blamed the Hegemony’s rulers, then that is a sentiment with which my MC’s rebellion would agree. If Broracha blamed the population of the Hegemony for centuries, then the odds of peace on that border would be low.

@Havenstone Are there other continents across the oceans in this game universe? Even if my MC found secret Hegemony maps claiming no, my MC would distrust both their veracity and their competence so would want to eventually send exploration fleets just to check.

Since there are already sentient non-humans, I was also wondering whether there might be any sentient aquatic or amphibious beings, either abhumans or something else. I imagine amphibious abhumans would be pretty impressive as marine infantry. If the seas off of the Hegemony’s coast are already populated by sentient beings, it would improve trade as well.

I wonder if submarines which handle air filtration by wisardry are used for inserting landing parties, if not that is something my MC’s rebellion will have to try. It seems like a sufficient aetherial blood supply and a basic knowledge of chemistry could handle air filtration. @Havenstone Are magnetic compasses or sunstones in existence yet? What about accurate clocks at sea for use in finding longitude?

@Havenstone On a different note, thank you by the way for giving the week number as a stat and for letting the MC accompany Elery on the return trip from the sheep raid. I choose to head-canon that what whispered conversation did occur included my MC asking about Yebben.

My MC would definitely agree about the need for a strong central state regarding the matters you mentioned, religious issues, foreign affairs, defense, commerce, and disaster relief. My MC would not care if non-seditious songs or books are printed by individuals in a regional language as opposed to the federal lingua franca.

I think they both definitely have potential to hold positions of even greater responsibility. The end of the first game at least on my play-throughs mentions the band splitting up with some going into Shayard and some into Wiendrj. So there may already be additional important positions open in the second game.

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Problem with that is, the Judean People’s Front and the People’s Front of Judea might have a little trouble agreeing on the terms of a merger (not to mention who’s going to lead the combined group).

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Maybe Brian will lead them both whether he wants to or not.

I did phrase it as my MC’s preferences, not what my MC actually expects to happen smoothly. In any case, my MC feels a single federal government is a small price to pay to reduce the possibility of future wars though my MC might consider other ways of reducing the risk of war with some neighbors.

@Havenstone On a different note, one plot detail that I think may need to be addressed in the sequel concerns the ability of Plektoi to track the MC. From what information players possess, there seems to be no reason why the Hegemony could not do whatever it does to acquire scents for Plektoi to a group of prisoners close to the Whendward pass and then permit some of those prisoners to escape while killing a few to keep up the ruse. Even if not all of the surviving prisoners fled to the rebellion, some probably would and the more prisoners escape to begin with, then the better the odds of there being at least one good scent trail to the rebellion. Another option would be to have the Plektoi focus on the scent of a Kryptast and then send the Kryptast to the rebellion where the Kryptast would not need to do anything to draw suspicion. It also seems whatever scent trail the Plektoi use also includes blood kin so it could also work to give the Plektoi the scent of a close blood relative of someone in the band and then do whatever the Plektoi usually do.

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Also keep in mind that if there’s anyone with valid territorial claims against us/the Hegemony it would be them on account of theurges constantly trying to push the border further into their lands. I think the original goal would have been to drive them into the sea eventually.
So that may need to be addressed regardless of their propaganda as it would actually be a very valid grievance.

Yes there are, I believe the Hegemony has even mapped some of them with their theurges and have knowledge of more. I think there’s a throwaway line about it either in game or in one of @Havenstone 's comments on the old thread.

That’s a slight difference with my mc too, while mine would tolerate regional languages fluency in Koine would always come first in the new education system. Besides that he would of course promote foreign languages. While the regions are certainly allowed to teach their own language in addition to that they would need to find the time and money for it by themselves as it’s not really going to be promoted by the central government.

A very big problem to be sure, particularly given that my mc fears loss of overall control on his part can only lead to his re-enslavement or death by slow harrowing, so he’s naturally rather keen to do anything to prevent those outcomes.
Plus he’s likely to outright oppose a Shayardene monarchist rebellion.

You know we already know the helot mc has lots of “family” in the camps, so I always thought the Hegemony might have tracked one of them down and used them for the plektoi.

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Good point. My MC would probably be willing to extradite captured senior Hegemony leaders for trial and punishment by Broracha. Junior Hegemony officials and other enemies of the rebellion could be extradited for hard labor in construction projects or the like. It is hard to imagine the new state being able to afford or willing to pay reparations. Maybe in addition to extraditions, rebellion wisards could be sent for a time as an act of good will to help with civilian construction projects or medical wisardry. Both would also serve as good practice for the rebellion’s wisards.

@idonotlikeusernames Thanks for mentioning that. I think I found the post you meant or something like it anyway.

My MC would be fine with regional languages holding equal status and funding with the federal lingua franca (which currently seems likely to be Koine) as long as people are fluent in Koine or whatever takes its place. If regional governments wanted official documents and signs in their regional languages, that would be acceptable as long as the same text was also present in Koine or its replacement.

Quite possibly. My point though is that with the MC in the Xaos-lands, I am aware of no plot reason why the Hegemony could not use their tracking technique on some other rebel who is still with the band.

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It’s not as if our own infrastructure won’t need rebuilding and my mc could always use more labour for the canal, so just giving it away would seem like a dumb move.

I was actually referring to this, I was just too lazy to look it up straight away.
I fully expect the Hegemony to destroy any such maps and knowledge of the lands across the oceans they hold just to spite my mc if nothing else.
In any case the author already said that presumably even if we can contact them sometime during the rebuilding game they play an extremely minimal role, so maybe a very small trickle of trade might be the very best and full extent of the help and influence from any lands across the oceans that we can get.

Longer term if trade is kept up there’s going to be mutual influence but any such thing would likely be beyond the scope of this series.

Only one official language for my mc. Local translations would be acceptable so long as they’re paid for by provincial means, but legally the Koine version would be the sole authority.

Treaties and contracts with foreign powers would be the sole exception there as Koine would be co-equal with the official language of the other power(s) on such documents.

They might have used it to keep tabs on Breden and/or Radmar, that’s true. What would have held them back is likely the expense and effort involved in tracking more than one or two people that way, of course now that we’ve proven to be a real nuisance and not just a distraction to feed the machine they might get more serious/proactive about it.

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In memory of Ursula K. Le Guin, a friend just shared with me this classic short story, “The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas.” Fresh off writing my fantasy dystopia, the main thing that strikes me is Le Guin’s critique of the dystopian imagination…the insistence that any apparent utopia must have its inescapable cost, its seamy underbelly; the “treason of the artist” that presumes pain is a more sophisticated topic for art than happiness.

“Now do you believe?” she writes, and I don’t. My sympathies are firmly with the walkers-away, and not just because I’m on Ivan Karamazov’s side when it comes to utilitarian thought experiments involving tormented kids. The hidden horror of Omelas is too contrived, its necessity impossible to believe. And I think about the reviewers of XoR who have asked, “Why can’t they just have a blood donation drive?”

There’s a reason, of course; and I hope when all’s said and done, the dystopia of Karagon hangs together better than Omelas. But I want to be careful not to slip into writing misery for misery’s sake, and I hope I can do more justice to happiness in future volumes. Rebels will never be a utopian work, but nor should it be a hopeless one.

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I read this bit of, uh… I’m not sure what you’d call it? Riff/critique on “Omelas”, recently, and it really articulates what I’ve always felt about that particular short story.

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I may be an idiot, but I feel like Le Guin was critiquing human nature and our desire to be entertained by suffering or at least thinking about suffering in a narassistic way. “What would I do?”

I feel her point was more “this is why the Omelas of the first paragraph can’t exist, you don’t even believe it can exist. Even after I reveal the horror you won’t reject it or cheer for the new Omelas. You will chose to walk way, and that’s why we can’t have nice things people!”

I suppose the other way to look at it is from a meta perspective that we should all walk away from Omelas and try to write, read, and think about society in a healthier way. Idk it seems a work designed to stir the pot and she apparently delighted in it being used by high school lit teachers to upset students and spark debate.

I feel Le Guin always had an excellent grasp of invidual human nature, but kind of an uneven one of our social consciousness. She always seemed to fall on the side of “none of us are as stupid as all of us.”

In any case she was a marvelous author. Earth Sea was and still is one of the most immersive fantasy works ever written imo.

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In order to do that, I feel that we have to know how the “evil empire” evolved into what it is. If you follow Le Guin’s train of thought, or perhaps have the Hegemony follow her train of thought… If you show us how the Hegemony thought they were achieving a Utopia by making what they deemed as necessary sacrifices, then perhaps your Rebels, upon defeating their ultimate enemy, can present an alternate answer to the riddle of “inescapable cost.”

But what is their ultimate enemy? Surely it is not simply the Hegemony, but what it represents… the long series of choices that let the Hegemony evolve into what it is; the purpose they think they have in protecting the people; the apparent divine mandate that drives the enforcers of the Hegemony to exert their authority over all.

I fear if the Rebels do not understand that their true enemy is a complex and multi-faceted foe, they will be doomed to fail… or worse. Perhaps they will fall, and embrace Hegemonic doctrine in a desperate play for freedom, or a sense thereof. Perhaps they will splinter as they discover that members of their own fight for different reasons. If the Rebel leader senses dissension in the ranks, will that leader resort to measures of absolute control in order maintain the strength needed to fight the enemy? Or will that leader realize the danger of becoming the very enemy the Rebels fight against? Will it even matter at that point?

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I am not sure about the Hegemony “thought” they were achieving Utopia, for my understanding, they are all lies about “monsters” and “demons” beyond the wall… i initially thought they might be telling the truth , especially after meeting the nobleman who later assassinated by the tyrants … but after meeting the survivor from beyond the wall and knowing there are actually other inhabitants there… seems like the evil empire just want to build a lies and want to continue to scare the people about the lies they created by building that “wall”, just from keeping people from knowing the truth so that they can continue to rule with an iron fist …

The Evil Empire is similar to some ancient regime who build the iron curtain to restrict people from knowing the truth and avoid people from having free-will … hardly an utopia for my understanding

I believe the true enemy is the Fear and imaginary demons within themselves , which eventually lead them to the loss of their humanity, after being fed with the lies all those decades , and the constant mistrust build up by those lies and hatred… as i can see, most characters there had been terrified by the spy-assassin or “kryptast”… with every misfortune, they are seeing ghost from every corner of their eyes, especially with the case of Breden … how nobody ever thought that , wasn’t it a bit too naive to believe that an experience spy-assassin will be that easily being exposed ? If Breden was really meant to harm us, i don’t think Breden was stupid enough to leave any evidence tracing back to her/him at all, it was too obvious that someone want him/her to take the fall… due to the fear exist in everyone’s mind , they just hope to kill anyone they suspect… I think Breden is a spy-assassin, but she/he doesn’t really meant us harm… perhaps Breden was working from the inside of the spy network for the rebellion cause, the rebellion within a dangerous spy organisation is the most honourable of them all… take the case of Jason Bourne’s and John Wick’s rebellion within their assassin organisation …

I take a quote from the “5th Wave” , “How do you rid the Earth of humans? Rid the humans of their humanity.” That’s exactly what the enemy’s true intention, to rid the people of their humanity … without humanity, even if the Rebels succeed in their rebellion … Evil will simply change face from Hegemony to a new Regime

Hence for my main character’s Rebellion, the ultimate enemy will be the loss of humanity … whatever the enemies and the obstacles we may face in the future, i must ensure my Rebels will not be rid of their humanity…

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@ElliotEnjolras, LOVE it. So good.

@cascat07, you’re not an idiot at all. That’s a good interpretation.

I never made any guarantee of accuracy. I just said a bunch of stuff and waited for someone to respond. :grin:

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Haha…it is alright, it was supposed to be individual interpretation regarding the Rebellion he/she leads and the nature of the Rebellion may be different for different leader(s) :wink:

I was just role-playing my own Rebellion cause :smile:

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See, I find the Karagond dystopia perfectly believable as it stands. “Is there a better way?” is a question for the rebellion, not the status quo!

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Hey, @Havenstone, just something I’ve been curious about for a while, were you inspired at all by Brandon Sanderson’s Mistborn series when writing this? I drew some similarities between your work and his when I first read the overview for XoR (it’s what initially caught my interest), and then while reading through the actual story itself.

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