Choice of Rebels: Uprising — Lead the revolt against a bloodthirsty empire!

[quote=“muffy, post:4427, topic:32089, full:true”]As such, I’d recommend to focus on extremes. You’ve done the Ruthless Helot MC, so I agree that a Compassionate Aristo may be the best option now (may the gods forgive me for uttering such words). <20 Anarchy for sure - roleplays better with the high Compassionate stat, and provides a balance with the previous Helot guide.
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Right, I think we’ll do Low Anarchy. I have done the dry run of the build that will become the guide, looks quite successful. Helots, Yeomen, Merchants, and Nobles are all on board. Every single lieutenant (including Zvad and Bleys) is on board.

Unfortunately couldn’t really befriend the Priests, but honestly if you’re doing an Inner Voice build…your character probably isn’t a fan of the Priesthood anyways.

Screenshot of the kind of results you can expect, complete with a 1 round combat victory.

I agree that success is definable in a number of ways. I think my “Savage Goete” build is the most technically exacting build that you can do in XoR (it took me literal years to arrive at, and I had assistance, see the guide Acknowledgements), and it does obtain the maximal number of armaments at the end.

But the reason I’m saying this Inner Voice build is the “National Hero” equivalent is that it succeeds across a range of domains: it gets you the massive rebellion, it gets you Simon (who I understand is preferred to Kalt), it befriends the elites, giving you the option to launch a more elite-based rebellion in later books, etc…

The Savage Goete build mainly succeeds in slaughtering Karagond soldiers efficiently, and getting elites to hate you.


There is one editorial decision I had to make, and that was to make this a Homelander build, even though Cosmopolitan is slightly stronger. I did that because I think it’s hard to grasp why a Cosmopolitan Aristocrat would be upset at the system, as the Karagond order is fairly Cosmopolitan as it is. But a Homelander Aristocrat would naturally be upset at the way things are.

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This is brilliant - nice work. How much tweaking do you expect to be needed? ETA til posted on Steam?

Agreed very much - that’s a good perspective to take.

This sounds very reasonable, and I’m glad you could make the guide fit smoothly into the narrative, too - it’s not always easy to make a min-maxed guide that has a cohesive story.

Minor questions: Do you push for the little extras in the story, like getting the scene where the rebels name a child after you (Namesake achievement)? Which method is used to get intel on the Architelone Raid? Do you do anything interesting with Calea, such as the “survive being poisoned” achievement (What Doesn’t Kill You)? Is Inner Voices integral to the run or could it be switched out, potentially, if the player so wished?

Thank you for your hard work - I’m sure these will be used by many grateful, nameless people for years to come.

You are literally describing a National Hero tbh.

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No ETA for now. Guide-writing is tough, I first have to do dry runs, then I have to make sure it’s RNG-proofed, then I have to minimize Winter variability (because not everybody will be able to adjust strategy on the fly in mid-winter).

I generally do not go for the little extras. Getting the child named after you usually happens, but I can’t ensure it always happens, as that would compromise the run.

I use Bleys to get intel on the Architelone raid. This made the run harder, as I have to get the Homelander points to make up for it. But it’s worth it, as you get an extra lieutenant and much more money!

The guide can definitely work as Eclect. I just prefer Inner Voice for 2 Charisma builds as it adds some flavor.

I hope that many people will use my guides over many years, and set themselves up for maximal options and great successes as the later games come out.

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An aristo MC with a high Homelander score will find it easier to overcome that yeoman suspicion and unite Shayard. It still won’t be simple – just waving the metaphorical Shayardene flag doesn’t in itself create a big tent for a nationalist movement, there will be tradeoffs and sacrifices – but a Homelander has a good head start. Doing it with a Cosmo aristo would be a challenge for the high-CHA player.

However you like! I don’t do canon pronunciations. :slight_smile: If it facilitates waffle puns, go for it.

Some sort of Magna Carta will certainly be possible, but it will be a huge challenge to back it up with anything resembling genuine protection for the lesser orders. After a few centuries of tyranny, genuine popular accountability for the nobility and executive will be hard for most people even to conceptualize, let alone create. The law system necessary to make a reality out of civil rights doesn’t grow well out of totalitarianism or anarchy.

Not if you keep doing things he doesn’t like.

It’s actually first in the queue. G3 for Whendery (or the Westriding, for the Cabels), G4 for Nyryal (or the Reach), G5 for Erezza (or Aveche) – chapters that allow you to broaden your influence beyond Shayard and/or consolidate influence within it. And yes, Whendish waterpower could theoretically sub out some of the demand for blood in industrial production.

Not a single one of mine, and there’s no need to apologize. :slight_smile: Just noting that of course I reserve the right to stay mum on any topic, and that I can’t respond to every query, speculation, or free-association session around the game.

We’ll see. An endgame where the Syntechnia still exists is one where either you or one of your primary rivals have rebuilt some sort of substantial continent-wide order. If you’re the Hegemon, you’ll have bigger things on your plate than smuggling for the guild; if others are, and in late Game 5 you’re trying to find where you fit in the world they’ve rebuilt, a major trans-national or inter-continental smuggling ring would be one fun option. But the feasibility would depend partly on how those rivals feel about you, as well as the strength of your relationship with the Syntechnia.

They pretty much all resent the dominance of Karagon in the trade rules, but that doesn’t make them Laconniers or even Homelanders – they definitely don’t want to see Shayard cut off from continental trade, either, and many of them appreciate the Karagond language and culture that let them form strong connections across provincial bounds. You could tip them in either a Laconnier or Leaguer direction if you choose to engage with them.

I don’t think Alaine will be in Grand Shayard; you’ll have a chance to interact with her again in G3, if she’s still alive. We’ll see if she could be convinced to outright join the rebellion or whether she’d remain a discreet external asset. I’m leaning toward the latter, but we’ll see.

The only ways to get longevity and heightened awareness in the gameworld are ultra-high-level Theurgic techniques that take decades to master – there’s no way to breed an aether-plant that would give that to anyone. No melange. (And no prescience, luckily for you, even with Thaumatarch-caliber Theurgy.)

Also no mithril. Chain mail is bulky and a huge pain to wear, just like in real life. Nobody goes around permanently armored. Theurges know that in an attack, they can wield blood to harden whatever they’re wearing by enhancing its protective telos. A fair number of the officers on the Halassur front will have been issued impenetrable bucklers and helms, but the blood cost of Theurgy-hardened armor is too high for anyone but top generals to wear a full set.

We’ll see if art winds up coming into the game. Definitely no plans to give the MC either forgery or artistic genius as a skill, though.

There is no convenient Plektos-hijacking flute, and again, no plan to give your character musical talent. I agree that a rousing chorus of “Toss a Coin to Your Rebel” with Carles the jongler would be a nice way to spend an evening.

The nobles in G2 Ch3 will be mostly engaged in social intrigue, not the luxury trade.

No plans for a pirate romance with the Qalsa, sorry. CoG has some other games to scratch that itch, I believe. :slight_smile:

Impossible to know. They probably would have all gone down together; certainly enough nobles thought so. Horion on the other hand would say that if enough of the nobles had declared their support, the Hegemony would have had to bargain with the revolt rather than simply repress it.

Oh, absolutely. As the focus shifts to urban areas and major trade routes, there will be more satisfying outcomes from non-violent resistance than there were in Game 1, too. @Fiogan wrote some seven years ago that they hoped the MC could arrange for “copies of either seditious philosophy or even the Shayardene Codex to mysteriously start appearing all over the place. Rebellion through advancement of so-called unfortunate ideologies sounds like almost as fun as reading lessons for lots and lots of helots, spreading out from the smaller lessons at the start of the game.” I’m looking forward to writing more approaches like that.

I hope so too! :slight_smile:

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The trial, assuming the mc has it conducted honestly, when first escaping Rim-square can be a very small start…I hope.

Well not magna carta…hopefully more political tutelage in my mc’s case.
Anyway at best the practical application of the principles would probably vary quite a bit. Of course demonstrating the virtues of the new system, ideally that is what the model province is for and near the end of the game maybe the additional territories that, in my case, the federal government controls directly…Avezia plus surroundings and the canal zone.

As, already established another reason why a part of Wiendrj may be ideal as a model province and early base of operations.

Hopefully in our own direction too. Horion’s league holds no appeal for my mc as there would not be a place in it for him that is worth anything.

Horion is a fool, unless there is a genuine magical WMD threat neither the Hegemony no Halassur would ever back down and from what we know or can reasonably infer from what you’ve shared the Shayardene nobles would not have had magical ability of the apocalyptic scale necessary to threaten the Thuamatarchy with.
Not that it would have changed anything for people like my mc, even if they had, since the Shayardene economy is now overwhelmingly agricultural and slavery-based the helots would likely have remained mostly slaves.

But the reading lessons for helots…and from what we’ve seen a lot of yeomen too are necessary to give them knowledge of and a voice in the systems said ideologies would seek to propagate. Though I do recognise that may be a greater concern for my mc than it would be for other types of characters.

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Hmm…then I think it’s for the best that the 2-Charisma build I’m writing is a Homelander one. I think most people are more interested in a large, cross-class rebellion than in an elite conspiracy. It’s also intuitively easier to grasp than a Cosmopolitan one: the Karagond order is a Cosmopolitan one, and conversely nationalism is a good way to challenge it.

In fact, I think I’m one of the only vocal people around interested in elite-based rebellions. I’m not sure I’ve seen anyone else here or on Reddit talking about them. I have finally finished up a 2COM/1CHA “Red Bars” High Anarchy (a truly arrogant man won’t rebel without his ancestral sword!) Aristocrat that gets Bleys and Aristo/Merchant help. I have a similar, also arrogant, build that goes Ruthless/Skeptical/Cosmopolitan. I think it’s much easier to understand why a skeptical and nationalist aristocrat would be upset about the current order. But skeptical + cosmopolitan would fit better with crafting an elite noble conspiracy, though I’m still not sure how to roleplay it.

It seems like there is interest in pacifist games. FWIW, I would be willing and able to write a pacifist guide. I think Ledd would be the better person to write that guide, as he’s more well-versed in pacifist runs. But I’d be up to do it if he wasn’t. (This would be a a pacifist guide that follows the spirit of the run, not a sociopathic minmaxing one that kills off Alless and other kids to get more recruiting in.)

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What am I, chopped liver? :stuck_out_tongue: I’ve been advocating for a “reformed” Thaumatarchy (arrogant/medium ruthlessness/Devout/Cosmopolitan) for years now, and while our current power base is in the helots, there’s no reason that it has to remain so. (The yeomanry need to just die, though.)

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In a hypothetical worst case scenario, I’m now suddenly imagining the “THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!” quote (from South Park) as the main motto of the Shayardene nationalist splinter group(s) (who didn’t join MC’s rebellion, and probably feel as if their economic needs have been neglected by a “head in the clouds” globetrotting MC).

Thanks, I certainly will go for it!

#1: And on another note, what is the most popular carb/bread-based dish in each of XoR’s regions? (e.g. which provinces (and social classes) prefer rice, pasta, latkes, baguettes, muffins, pastries)

#2: And more specifically, which XoR region/social class would like to claim credit for inventing the very first waffle? (or waffle counterpart)

#3: And in general (for the more immediate future of the incoming G2), I’m very curious to find out what cornucopia of delicious delights might await our MC in Grand Shayard and beyond (especially before the resource scarcity of later games takes effect).
In particular, I can already envision my aristo MC and Suzanne mixing business and pleasure, aka “wining and dining” our way into successfully brokering a Laconnier-Leaguer coalition (along with incorporating said coalition into MC’s broader rebellion).
(while in an alternate universe, a different MC of mine is enjoying a more modest picnic basket with (romanced) Breden, briefly taking a break from XoR’s politics to appreciate life’s simple pleasures)

The frightening “all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others” slippery slope (from Animal Farm) does indeed come to mind, and I suppose I should consider the possibility that my “Old Major” aristo MC’s Codex might end up being twisted by the not-so-well-intentioned “Napoleons” and “Squealers” (amongst MC’s allies) to gradually re-legitimize their old privileges/abuses.

So in addition to creating his new nation-state, perhaps my aristo MC might also consider pushing for the creation of “the Defenders of the Codex/Innocents,” an independent bureaucracy/court/knightly order whose sole purpose is to regularly audit (or outright depose/impeach, in worst case scenarios) the nation’s leaders/administrations for any signs of tyranny, abuse, and corruption (per the rules/terms of MC’s Codex).

That way, the lesser orders should theoretically have a go-to, proper channel of ousting the government’s bad actors for the ages to come (instead of always having to tear everything down in retaliation).

Though, in practice, there are some obvious shortcomings with the Defenders that might probably come back to bite my MC and/or his successors.

#1: MC and/or his successors end up being framed for an egregious crime that they didn’t commit, thus prompting the well-intentioned (but misled/legalistic) Defenders into turning against them. (while creating a newfound power vacuum for the crime’s real culprit to exploit)

#2: And if multiple, separate Defender agencies were to be created to constantly audit each other (per MC’s awareness of the “Who Watches the Watchmen?” trope, Who Watches the Watchmen? - TV Tropes), might the possibly constant atmosphere of paranoia/distrust amongst the Defender agencies become a trigger for civil war, thus qualifying as a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts?

@idonotlikeusernames certainly has a point about political tutelage, so investing in education will likewise be a top priority for my MC’s to tackle.

Since my aristo MC has an interest in pardoning both of his cousins (Hector and Calea), might Hector and Calea be given opportunities in G2 (and beyond) to directly join MC’s rebellion? (and then perform more openly heroic/redeeming deeds that would make MC’s granted pardon feel more palatable/earned, instead of mere nepotism that undermines his legitimacy)

Perhaps “head start bonus points” could be awarded to G1 players who previously unlocked the “Clemency - Persuade a vengeful mob to spare their tormentors” achievement (because MC’s followers would then understand that MC’s pardoning of Hector and Calea is consistent with MC’s past actions/values).

Granted, my suggestion is probably an obvious dealbreaker that forever alienates Radmar and his sub-faction. :frowning:
But for the sake of curiosity, I’d still like to find out how far this rabbit hole (of winning over the nobility and improving its reputation/legitimacy) goes.

Regardless, it would make for some interesting “why back in my day”-style small talk between MC and his kids during lunch break. (e.g. “Kids, before your dad became Hegemon, he used to be a badass rogue/smuggler!”)
And in the background, Elery (and/or Breden) would be deflating MC’s ego with playful jabs (along with telling their own versions of G1’s past events).

By the way, what’s the XoR terminology for pirate, smuggler, and privateer, respectively? (in the context of Shayardene and Koine language, in particular)

Here’s a possible coda that comes to mind (for a successful, lasting smuggling ring outcome): “Sure, we may happen to be a wretched hive of scum and villainy, but for the right price, we’ll be your hive for the foreseeable future.”

How convenient that my Cosmo Aristo MC chose to make Koine the main language of my rebellion (per G1).

Would it be reasonable to assume that she’s catching up with Zvad in Wiendrj during G3? (assuming Zvad is alive and left MC’s band in G1)
Or is she still conducting her usual business in Shayard by then)

Will gaining more influence/profit within the Syntechnia be a high priority for Alaine by G3?
Or will her life goals by then have shifted towards something of a more personal nature? (rather than career-oriented)

Speaking of the Thaumatarch, a certain analogy has recently come to mind.

Considering how inhuman/alien the Thaumatarch has become (in terms of physiology and ability), I’m now going to guess that he’s Daffy Duck’s interpretation of El Chupacabra: “half alien, half dinosaur, and half vampire.” (per this video: 7 The Taming of the Screwball - YouTube)

Unless your name happens to be Jon Snow, and you’re feeling Properly Paranoid about getting knifed the second time around. :fearful:

Speaking of the Karagond Syntechnia, what sort of ‘heavy blow’ would you say you have in mind (during MC’s G3 time at Aekos)?
E.g. low-key theft of trade secrets, full-blown bank robbery/heist, humiliate/embarrass yet another Archtelone, or something yet to be finalized?

#1: Oh gosh, and would one of these top generals happen to be a major boss battle to overcome during later games?
#2: And which INT score (and level of Theurgic mastery) would the MC require to take down a fully-armored, Halassur top general all by himself? (e.g. through using his own Theurgy to un-harden the general’s defenses)
#3: And could the MC still take down said general with a lower INT/Theurgic score? (if he has enough allied Theurges to help him gang up on the general)

Let’s see if the first batch of parody lyrics are to your liking.

When a poor jongler
Graced a ride along
With a child so pure
Along came this song

And when the sweet child sang
A blackened-heart Gellard
His army of thugs
At his feet were they dullards

They came after me
But came out empty handed
I ran with my lyre
And found myself stranded

And now the child’s grown,
Beat up two Plektoi,
And so cried the Rebel,
“I’m no mere boy!”

Toss a coin to your Rebel,
O Shayard of plenty (or “O Rim Square of plenty”, depending on your tastes),
O Shayard of plenty,
Toss a coin to your Rebel,
O Shayard of plenty!

I’ll leave it up to the rest of the forum to come up with the remaining lyrics, or revisit the topic myself once further inspiration reaches me (whichever comes first).

On another note, can the nobility be ruthless, ungrateful, and deceitful enough to eventually subject our MC to a Red Wedding-inspired betrayal? (e.g. “The Keriatous/Laconniers/Leaguers send their regards!”)
I’m also considering coming up with an XoR version of “The Rains of Castamere,” but at the moment, “Toss a Coin to Your Rebel” has drained me of all my amateur songwriting creative energy.

On a separate note, which CoG pirate game captures your interest/fascination the most?

Random victim: Oh no, who will save us from the big, bad Hegemony?
(cue entrance from MC humming Mickey Mouse’s “Steamboat Willie” tune while bringing in a fleet of reinforcements)

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Oh yes. That level of intrigue could be something great for aristo MCs that choose a path heavily focused on intrigue. Sounds like something for high INT and medium CHA characters.

I don’t think blantant Calea/Hector redemption is possible, considering that they both were involved in really dark stuff in Game 1. Like y’know, Calea using helot men and then supposedly making them go into the maw of Harrower when she got bored. Or Hector hunting and torturing actual kids in Chapter 3. Having an option to pardon them would be nice, but I don’t think player need or should get some “morality treat” for doing so.

@Havenstone Oh and also another question. Would it be theoretically possible for aristo MC to become the king of Shayard? Maybe even falsifying some dynasty records in order to fool people (and/or Laconniers but I guess they’d not fall for such trick considering their obsession with true heir of Shayard throne) into believing that MC has right to the throne?

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Change of plans.

I tried to get Ledd to write the minmaxed pacifist run (where all the lieutenants survive)…he wasn’t really up to write the guide, but he did teach me how to do it, so I can write the guide now.

It seems that there is a lot of popular interest in such a pacifist guide, so I will write that instead of the 2-Charisma run we had been planning earlier.


The other guide I was planning was going to do was much more violent, a Skeptical/Cosmopolitan Arrogant Aristocrat (that befriends Nobles/Merchants and gets Bleys). Without the mobilizing powers of religion and nationalism, he will have to rely on strategic prowess and elite connections to defeat the Hegemony.

So the builds:

2CHA/1INT Comp/Dev/Home Pacifist Helot
2COM/1CHA Ruth/Skep/Cosm High Anarchy Aristocrat

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#1: Might it also be possible for a G1 love interest to become the “Lady Jessica” to an aristo MC’s “Duke Leto?” (e.g. the G1 love interest is pretty much MC’s actual spouse/soul mate in all but name, but MC remains officially unmarried in order to pragmatically keep himself/herself available for political marriage)

#2: And given how Teren (Horion’s nephew/niece) was previously described to be Machiavellian/pragmatic, I’m feeling very undecided and nervous about what to make of her (potential) characterization in the final draft.
I’d be very delighted to work with a Varys-inspired advisor/partner (who could provide insight/assistance for my “genuine protection for the lesser orders” agenda), but what if Teren instead turns out to be your average Tyrell? (a fickle, polite ally who has good PR as a “friend of the commoners”, and is not instinctively malicious; but when the chips are down, will almost always pick political self-interest over ideology/friendship)

I wonder if XoR might also explore the relationship between the “old money” and “new money/nouveau riche” sub-factions of the aristocracy.
Would a social-climbing helot MC be able to find a place amongst the nouveau riche sub-faction?
(especially if he/she was able to appeal to the shared origin stories of being “rags to riches” successful, self-made men/women)
Or, is @idonotlikeusernames completely correct in assuming that a helot MC would never truly secure lasting loyalty/acceptance from XoR’s prejudiced/elitist nobility?

On a separate note, Calea’s behavior reminds me of a quote from Mrs. White (from Clue 1985):
“Husbands should be like Kleenex: soft, strong, and disposable.” :fearful:

The “morality treat” would be indeed be a pleasant bonus, but first and foremost, my aristo MC is primarily concerned with how to mitigate the political fallout (that the pardons would inevitably trigger).

And on another note, I think this might be a fascinating fatal flaw for my aristo MC to confront in later games:
In general, he’s genuinely fond/protective towards the helots and yeomanry who have placed their faith in him (and are counting on him to improve their long-term livelihoods), but at the same time, he’s very much an adherent of the “Thicker Than Water” trope (Thicker Than Water - TV Tropes), thus perhaps feeling inclined to dispense grace/mercy towards relatives (who might then prey upon MC’s half-measures to gradually regain their old abusive privileges).

And here, we present the male helot MC’s bargaining chip for fully winning over Calea to his side (instead of remaining a mere ally of convenience/“black widow flight risk”):
Uplifting her as the queen of Shayard (as MC’s co-ruler).

I can already imagine MC’s sales pitch:
“You’ve seen how he looks down on you, right? Under Abelard’s thumb, your ‘reign’ would amount to being nothing more than his paraded trophy wife. But if you stick with me, true power and respect will be within your reach.”

(though, to be honest, I suppose appealing to Calea’s greed might turn out to be a unsustainable option in the long run, especially if she later gains any bright ideas about discreetly offing her ex-helot husband (via “an accident”) to become Shayard’s sole ruler (aka serving as “regent for life” on ‘behalf’ of her gullible children).

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You two are definitely not alone! I don’t think I’ve been super active since before chapter 1 released, but I always play a Cosmopolitan Aristo MC – Cosmo is my main stat, and I go for the dialogue options that maintain that aristocratic tone in dialogue options (as opposed to just falling in with Breden right away). I usually go for compassionate/devout as well, though I could be tempted to go skeptic if it made sense (unclear to me if I want to tear down superstition or go the religious leader route).

I’m definitely aiming for a reformed Hegemony if that’s all possible – not sure if there’s going to be an option to plop ourselves into the role of Thaumatarch or not (and not sure if it even plays well with a Compassionate character) but I definitely plan on playing this as “Karagonized provincial noble irritated that the Hegemony pits provincial elites against each other and doesn’t allow them to advance to the inner halls of power.” I want to rule Aekos, not destroy it. The objection is not to the Hegemony as an imperial institution, but rather to the Hegemony as an unequal institution of cruelty and repression instead of a well-run government.

My favorite dialogue in the game is where you complain about the injustices committed against the aristocracy to Breden and Breden essentially responds “gee, sounds so rough for you.” Would certainly be nice to end harrowing and who knows, abolish helotry too. But abolish all social hierarchies? No – the problem was Karagond misrule, not the idea of an administration in general. Although… hmmmmmm. Merit-based social mobility? Could an MC be awakened to that potential just as they’re awakened to the suffering of the helots through experiencing with them? Could be a good character arc.

I usually go for INT as my main stat – I like the leisurely classically educated aristocrat vibe which I think goes well with the cosmopolitan imperial orientation – but I have no idea if that is ideal or not. I certainly have noticed you’re less able to stop anarchy and keep morale up than a high CHA character, but I just noticed the exchange above indicating that a high CHA character might not be the ideal for a Cosmo Aristo? Hmm.

“Out of touch overeducated cosmopolitan bureaucrat leads a rebellion in the name of more efficient governance” now there’s a story for the ages! :stuck_out_tongue:

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Looks like we might be able to convince the Laconniers. If so, that’s very likely the route my arrogant aristo MC will try to go for. Her hope will be to unite the yeomen and nobility under her leadership, secure control of Shayard, and then support nationalist uprisings in the other Archonties. Getting Cerlotta on her side is going to be one of her major focuses at the beginning of next game so that these nationalist revolts are able to develop their own coteries of theurges/wisards/etc down the line. See below from Havenstone in a post from last year on the idea of trying to claim the throne.

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I’m thinking it’ll take a high CHA MC to try and convince them that you’re the long lost heir, though. I don’t see how you can bs your way through that with any other build. Then again, MC could also convince their followers that they’re Eclect…

If there’s a chance to grab Shayard’s throne, my homelander MC is taking it. He may be more of a bleeding heart aristo, but the man still has ambitions.

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Thrones are poisoned chalices. I’d much rather have the Laconnier King on it, with me holding all the actual levers of power.

That way, the Laconniers follow my lead and all the odium that’ll come from the things I do will be blamed on the King.

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Out of curiosity, what would be the context/pretense/title of your ‘advisory’ role?
Chancellor? Regent? High Counselor? Hand of the King?

Or perhaps, if you gained enough popularity as Eclect, you can publicly crown the Laconnier King to prop up his “divine right to rule” foundation, while (privately) informing him that you could always excommunicate him (if he does not respect/comply with your agenda).

Hmm… Now when we have conversation about royalty and related stuff I wonder about yet another thing. If we will be able to make our MCs kings/queens, would it also be possible to trick/inspire(depending if you’ve did it on purpose or not) people(most likely nobility) to declare you their king themselves, regardless of old dynasty lines and heirloom. Sort of like Jon and Robb in Game of Thrones got declared kings by their vassals.

Thrones are outdated in the post-Hegemony world. Of course, I think my MC is less interested in building a new state than an army to drive into Karagond’s heart. A shattered continent divided by warlords is the probable outcome, but seeing the Karagond nobility fed into their own harrowers and sending the Thaumatarch’s palace crashing into Aekos will be worth it

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Will the helot elder system be possible to expand into a system of government

Perhaps. But it’s a time of turmoil and revolutions, old and new ideas might rise and clash again.

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