Choice of Rebels: Uprising — Lead the revolt against a bloodthirsty empire!

But the Reach is where the religion originated prior to it being appropriated and corrupted by the Karagonds and their Karagond “Codex” or so some of the more seditious Xthonites would tell you.
If Aekos is the Vatican then the Reach is Jerusalem, or maybe even Mecca and you can have it without it also being the base of at least two other major religions. For those who want to reform the nightmare religion moving away from Aekos and the Karagond Codex would be very helpful.

Well, gee, let’s see what could my mc possibly have against a religion in the name of which he’s nothing more then a piece of blood-cattle “fated” by immutable caste to a life of miserable menial labour and then the worst kind of death imaginable, all in the name of Xthonos and his merry band of murderers, though they call them “merciful” angels. It also de-facto deters helots from being gay, so that’s another one.
Really at this point there are a fair few tender “mercies” my mc would like to inflict on one of those Angels, assuming they’re more than just a figment of the imagination of the faithful. :unamused:

Doing away with the current nightmare religion and its immutable caste system has always been my mc’s primary goal.

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You’ll just turn all of the religious factions against your rebellion. You won’t be killed, but it’s very likely you’ll be one of those perpetual rebels Havenstone mentioned, rather than a major power.

I’ve had this argument long before you came along, but as a born helot doing away with the caste system is a prerequisite if you want to really get anywhere and hold any actual power.

Also there’s a lot of resentment against the current church and the Karagond Codex. As for the Shayardene one, since most ordinary people (and I think crucially not even the diakons themselves) in Shayard and the rest of the Hegemony don’t even know what’s actually supposed to be in that particular version of the Codex it isn’t impossible to reshape it into a lawful religion by taking out any problematic bloodline descent, anti-gay and slavery passages, before publishing free copies for the new schools and the edification of the people. The rest the former diakons can figure out themselves in free and fair competition with all sorts of other religions and cults. My mc may be an atheist himself but he isn’t necessarily anti spirituality, just anti-caste and given that he is one himself pro gay.

What he doesn’t want is nightmare organized churches with priesthoods who pursue temporal power and meaningless luxuries at the expense of everything else. Which is why he hopes that by decapitating the church hierarchy and cutting it off from all public funding the former diakons will actually have to start figuring out things for themselves and start truly ministering to their (at least in the rural regions) primarily helot flock, if they want to survive as priests.

It’s also important to remember that the current Hegemony is a de-jure theocracy, so by the very act of rebelling against it my mc is already opposing the current, organized church too, as it is inextricably linked to the Hegemony state.

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Actually you can reform the religion into one focusing on freedom even when you’re not religious. You dont have to stick to the authoritarian hierarchic religious system and when you take this path peoples are particularely open to your interpretations going as far as hiding your members from the authorities. In my walktrough I made it air centered and said everyone can hear angels but I think you can reform it in a few different ways as well.

Doing Mara levels of charisma in later books I could certainly been creating a unified religion in base of Shayardene fake something I come with and each super power believe the other is an usurper of the glory of Xronos. Like exactly Vatican put all kings during centuries. Also I will give attracting peregrine stuff and a public orgy day in the harvesting season. that and awonderful ruthless civilized merchant guild aka banking. Being only neutral peaceful place in continent. Basically best Mara could do knowledge her own limitations

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Or the Diakons decide that since you’ve killed all the Ecclesiasts, you and your rebellion are the enemy and must be eliminated at all costs.

You’ll lose every noble by doing that, and they’ll take their retainers and all the merchants who do business with them(almost all of them) with them. You’ve said your rebellion is going to ally with the Traders’ Guild, but if you kill all of their traditional clients, they’ll turn against you.

And opening the current system up to competition will solve that? Most people will still worship the Angels(what competition would they even have?) and so you’ll end up with the same corrupt priesthood.

No, it’s not. If you agreed to play the nobles’ game of decadence and honour, and you made a claim to “lost nobility”, they’d probably accept you as the leader.(your MC won’t, but that’s his problem, not a helot problem)

(noble) Families in the current Hegemony are not bloodline exclusive and adoption of free persons as well as gay marriage are currently perfectly permissible. My mc’s concern be to make sure there’s no backsliding in that area as it is one of the very few things of the old Hegemony he intends to keep. Particularly not on account of some some ancient scrolls possibly saying “men lying with other men is an abomination” and that bloodline descent is sacred, or some such nonsense.

As for losing nobles, well my mc’s brand of rebellion and the fact that he is an unashamedly gay helot and uses magic was never going to hold much appeal for the current nobility and my mc has never intended to go out of his way to kowtow and subordinate himself to them again just in order to make his rebellion slightly more appealing to the old oppressors.

Yes, remember the current theocracy has not had to seriously compete with other religions, who might offer salvation without needing to be harrowed or having a miserable life being treated as a farm animal. I think in its current state the Hegemony is particularly susceptible to religious competition particularly since, again, being a theocracy any failure of the Hegemony could also be interpreted as failure of the church or even the religions as a whole, a fact that competing (would-be) priests of the revived forgotten gods and many others are sure to exploit to maximum effect. Ultimately I also thing my mc will come to believe in religious plurality as a potent check and balance against a new theocracy.

This is rather conveniently a game no helot knows the rules of. And he’d rather have the former nobility struggle with the rules of his new system than the other way around, particularly since he genuinely loathes decadence and won’t take to it. As for the “honour” as the mc can already more or less tell Simon it’s a bunch of nonsense the Church, as in the current theocracy he opposes, seems to have devised as in informal check on the lower nobility in particular. The highest rungs are not bound by it at all and most current nobles seem to ignore it whenever they can.

When it comes to claiming “lost” nobility remember that most helot families are so large due to the natalist drive to maximize the number of blood-cattle that you’d also be creating a never-ending line of “pretenders” to your new fake, pretend title.

Trying to play the games of the nobility would be a losing proposition to any former helot. The only sort of people for who it might work would be the upper rungs of the merchant class. So as our mc’s cannot be a merchant or a yeoman for that matter this is a moot point.

No, they won’t. Or at least not without killing at least half of the current “nobles” like @P_Tigras used to say and even then only grudgingly.

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@Havenstone
I was doing some nerd stuff to try to determine the dimensions of the Hegemony and I just wanted to see if it checked out with you:

7,600,000 km2 Hegemony Total Land Area
3,300km North-South Geographic Extreme
5,000km East-West Geographic Extreme
Similar to Mainland Australia (bit more stretched out with more ocean in between)

2,100,000km2 Shayard Total Land Area
2,000,000km2 Erezza Total Land Area
1,600,000km2 Wiendrj Total Land Area
1,300,000km2 Nyryal Total Land Area
600,000km2 Karagon Total Land Area

All distances here are approximate and a big assumption was that XoR’s planet is of Earth-like proportions.

Edit: For additional context the Roman Empire at its greatest extent under Trajan in 117 AD was “only” 5,000,000km2

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I assumed it may be a bit larger, given the fact that Hallassur is reportedly a bit larger than the Hegemony still and there’s also the abhuman federation, whatever is left of broracha and the lands held by the unquiet dead and that’s just for one continent, there are others too and the ocean’s may still cover most of the planet.

I think you may be underestimating how big the Earth is. Mainland Australia is only 1.5% of the Earth’s surface.

Maybe projecting how big I hope the XoR world will be after learning from an astronomer acquaintance that Earth itself may be on the lower end, size wise, of habitable planets. Particularly compared to the theorized so-called “superhabitable” exoplanets. But after using this site it seems you may be right.

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Both are bigger.

The Plektos/Theurge teams aren’t trying to comb the whole Rim; knowing that you escaped into the Xaos-Lands, they’re traversing the RIm’s border areas and the Brecks to catch you as and when you return.

Awesome. I’m still traveling away from my notes – let me confirm when I’m back next week.

@Norilinde, finally caught up on the Google material on state finance that you linked to earlier. The author of the comparative piece on the Han and Rome wants “to avoid modern budget connotations” not as a minor caveat, but because neither the Han nor Rome had anything resembling a central imperial budget. Even the costs of running their legions, which include much of the relevant data from which the author valiantly extrapolates, are hard to pin down accurately.

I’ve noted elsewhere that James Scott’s “Seeing Like A State” is an influence on my writing. Scott provides a great capsule history of a core challenge that every premodern state faced in administration and finance – the incommensurable diversity of local weights and measures, naming conventions, land tenure systems, etc. across its territory – and the centuries-long project of making populations more “legible,” ironing out that diversity into a set of common rules and standards that allow a state to be better aware of what’s going on.

Because of the “legibility” challenge, premodern states didn’t and couldn’t know enough about what was going on across their economy to have something like an accurate national budget. (The periodic attempts, like England’s Domesday Book, are precious sources that also highlight the severe limitations of royal capacity in this area.) Premodern rulers had perforce to delegate authority to local actors (the local feudal lord, village reeve, etc.) and live with a big gap between their declared policies and on-the-ground realities. Their knowledge was fuzzy at best, and unintended consequences and inefficiencies were rife.

We’ll see more details from Game 2 Ch 2 of how the Hegemony is pushing slowly toward modernity. But at present, blood is harvested across a vast land area by thousands of semi-local authorities. Much of it is used on local needs, e.g. agriculture, which is in no way under central control. Some needs to be sent to Aekos to keep the Palace airborne, some to the Halassur front, some to the Wards… but I’m afraid you’ll find that’s not actually a single centrally planned system but one in which different Ennearchs are given (shifting, sometimes clashing) extraction rights over different bits of territory and deploy their Theurges to wring as much blood as they think they can out of it.

Only a few features of the continent’s blood economy, like the cost of keeping up a Ward/Palace, can be known and planned for with a high degree of accuracy by the state. For the rest – both the actual scale of the population from which blood can be drawn, and the scale of demand from agriculture, war, policing, experimentation, etc. – the Thaumatarchy operates in a bit of a fog. Mistakes are inevitable, and consequential. This is the system you’ll inherit (having of course made things even less legible by your rebellion).

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Does the Palace have any use?

That seems rather idiotic of them, because surely they’d know we wouldn’t be coming out into the Rim?

I am starting To imagine Mara decide that will invent Shayardene codex as some sort of Meritocracy Confucius style with a weird Merchant and cultural focus where reasons to ascend in religion order is pure merits as nothing hereditary. I think could be an interesting mix Banks and Religion. Noble would become basically I don’t know. The could would be a meritocracy not hereditary nobility when kids where raised by state until the testing and then in base resoults being placed in society…

But that sounds very Platonic and very impossible still is totally fun imagine all this stuff lol even if can’t happen.

@Havenstone How many people live in the Brecks?

I’m bookmarking that post for future reference :grin:.

@Havenstone I hope you found the articles worthwhile. I possibly have a bad tendency to go overboard with linking things, but I try hard to never claim something without providing some kind of citation via a link though sometimes I am certain I’ve read something but cannot recall where.

It sounds like the blood equivalent of tax-farming. Even with the shortcomings in such data, having flawed data beats having no data at all. On the plus side from the Rebellion’s perspective, the Hegemony cannot know how much aetherial blood Sarcifer managed to stockpile before rebelling. That thought will cheer my MC immensely once realized.

I apologize if these questions have already been asked, but what is the status of money-lending and paper-money in the XOR world?

It is not necessarily the case that the Rebellion would make things less legible. Revolutionary France standardized a number of units during its Revolution. For those rebellions that adopt air rifles, having the same part interchangeable regardless of where it was made and every rifle being able to use the same ammo regardless of where that was made would be useful. On that note, if you can shoot bullets pneumatically, does the pneumatic artillery @Herrington mentioned exist in the XOR world?

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The revolution, even if you are non-violent, will be far bloodier and more chaotic than the French Revolution.

Bloodier does not necessarily translate to more chaotic.

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This is something we had damned well better fix, then, because decentralized Theurgy and decentralized agriculture are what got the Thaumatarchy into its current mess!

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Just a question, will we be able to make a free territory instead of a nation? Or are we stuck to making a state?

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