if the MC decided for the Whendward Band to spread out, Did the ‘Rim Commotion’ reached the richer and populous lowlands and the east side of the Rim?
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Yes, and not just the wider Commotion (which involves other groups than your own) but the folks who still consider themselves your followers.
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One possibility we haven’t discussed much is Logan’s Run. What if a “retirement age” was set at 60 or 70 and everyone is “Carrouselled” once they reach that age?
Upfront the biggest downside is that would would court hypocrisy if you extend life via theurgy, but miss out of the benefits of a 200 year old Einstein if you don’t.
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@Havenstone is it possible to raise moot age requirement later? Maybe 18 or 20 like apella? I rather not let children decide the course of rebellion.
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I know I am late to the whole “write stories about your characters” thing, I do not care I will still write mine anyways:
“So tell me, what of this grand defeat that the Hegemony suffered?”, Kadmos Katenatou poured himself another glass of Corlune brandy. The hall was deathly silent, save for the ticking of the grandfather clock and the night breeze flowing in through the open glass window.
“Up in the woods, north of Rim Square. They say a rebel army, half the size, sent the Hegemony running with their tails between the legs”, Taras Mikilatou, esteemed guest, leaned forward as he was describing the events. It was the talk of the Veldrin nobility, that battle. The courier had only relayed the news earlier today, and yet it spread like a wildfire through a fertile forest.
Kadmos responded with an ungentlemanly snort. “A Hegemonic army? Beaten by the mob of riff-raff from Rim Square? I’ll not believe such nonsense.”
Taras’s response was a shrug of the shoulders. “Believe what you like, friend. It will not change reality.”
Kadmos sits on the news, mulls it over once, twice, thrice. Signs of irritation slowly show on his face until he slams his cup onto the table, unable to handle it. “No, no. No! Rows of neatly organized Phalangites laid to waste by the helotry? Alasators and noble houses pushed back by the bunch of barely sentient sludges they’ve ruled over for decades? I’ll give credit to the Westriding rebellion, the yeomanry show glimmers of intelligence every now and then, but THIS? Did Xaos lay a curse on that army??”
"I believe it was not the quality of the army, per se, which won the battle but rather its leaders. Even a pack of drooling mutts can work together effectively with the right houndmaster. I’ve looked over some of the reports, and there was one name which kept popping up. An interesting name.
“Spare me the suspense Tara, we’re not in another one of your plays. Who was it?”
Taras gives Kadmos a pointed look. “Reynauld de Sarmenti.”
He was not even halfway done through the name when his companion responded with a look of utter disgust. "Shame-Veined? Isn’t that little shit rotting in the Keriatou dungeons?, he only met the future rebel once, during a visit to Rim Square for family matters. To say he was a wretched being would be an understatement of the highest calibre. Pale, scrawny, looking as if a strong breeze would knock him over. During a banquet at the Keriatous, he’d show just the barest of social decency before sitting in a corner and sticking his nose into whatever scroll or book was on hand. All he ever seemed to talk about was whatever boring subject he had read today, or bemoan the loss of “the true Shayardene ways” in a manner that was just barely above sedition. A thoroughly unpleasant person, Kadmos thought to himself.
"He was, now he is not. One must wonder how he ever got out in the first place. Jailbroken through the help of secret supporters of Ester Cabal? Or maybe patrons of a more prestigious background-the Laconniers share a similar sense of nationalism with kurios de Sarme…Shame Veined.
“Don’t attribute to malice what can be described by incompetence. The Keriatous just need a rearrangement of house guards and Alastors, is all. In any case, it’s no worries. If that whelp is the one leading them, then they’re sprinting to their own destruction by winter.”
Taras raises an eyebrow. "I fear you might be underestimating the enemy. While I cannot properly speak for a man I have never met, he has displayed his competencies.
"What competencies? The man has barely done anything throughout his petty little rebellion. No reports of Alastors being slaughtered tenfold or cities burnt down, just a garrison or two being raided here and there. Hardly competent, if you ask me.
“You forget the Architelone. Her guard slaughtered to a man, with her head mounted on a pike.”
“That was the only good thing about it all,” muttered Kadmos into his glass as he took a sip. It seemed he was not the only family with impending troubles from taxmen.
“In any case, I figure the lack of violence was not out of indecisiveness. Rather, I think this was he planned from the beginning.”
“Enlighten me, Mikilatou.”
“You were there in the agora, when the courier cried of the Shame-Veined and his victory?”, Kadmos shakes his head, he continues. “The reactions of the crowd, they were…unexpected. Yes, the helots tried to hide their expressions of elations, that was no surprise. It was that of the others. The yeomanry were not enraged, the merchants not paranoid of the supposed rebel army come to plunder their stores. Even our noble cousins did not seem as horrified.”
“That, my friend, is a load of hogwash.”
“Then what if I were to tell you that there were Houses which conspired with the rebellion?”
“I’d kick your teeth in for even suggesting our cousins would stoop so low.”
“Cousin Igor, he said his father was to set out for Rim Square to conduct investigations on several families. One for supplying information for the Architelone attack, the other for misdirecting reinforcements headed towards the army for that fated battle.”
Kadmos leans back into his chair, his face attempting to maintain a careful expression of neutrality. "So what do you think got into them?
"Maybe they were offered some deal. Maybe they are also dissatisfied with the Hegemony. Or maybe, Taras leaned even closer now, "they were listening to the will of the Angels.
"The Angels?
“Surely you’ve heard, from the Ecclesiarchs. Of Ecclesiarts Linos naming de Sarmenti the Eclect. That would explain some things, use of Theurgy being one.”
“Linos hangs around that fat bastard Horion, so him being corrupt is an automatic assumption for me. And blood-magicks are abound when one makes deal with devils and demons of Xaos? Simple Geotry, I find it hard to believe Xthonos would truly bless a man of that sort.”
Taras, calm and serene during the conversation, shoots glares of daggers at Kadmos. “I would watch what I say about the Ecclesiarst. Men of his nature, they were chose to translate the Angels words for us to undetstand. How are we, mere mortals, to understand his reasoning?”
“Say what you like, but I’ve known rum and women to sully the piety of even the most devout priest.”, Kadmos stands up, streching his legs. “But enough talk of petty rebellions. Solumantous party is in full swing now, and we are just the right amount of fashionably late if we hurry on to his estate.”
Taras lays silent for a moment. “No. I would rather retire to the chapel for the evening. I must be alone for a while, collect my thoughts on some matters.”
Kadmos responds with a shrug. “Suit yourself. I’ll have a glass of brandy in your honor.”
And with that, they both went on their way.
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The reasonable kind of privilege with clearly defined boundaries that can be negotiated with aristo-sympathetic (but not blindly aristo-loyal) MC, right? (instead of the “beyond the pale” abuses we see from the Keriatou, Pelematou, and others)
And on another note, I’m still grappling with the fact that Abelard (a respectful and generous benefactor/provider of jailbreaks and anti-Plektoi spears) is part of the same faction (Laconniers) as the Keriatou siblings (thuggish brute Hector and opportunistic/lustful/self-interested Calea). I hope MC gets the chance to ask Abelard about his thoughts concerning such an arrangement (and how aware Abelard is about the Keriatous’ behavior, outside of the ‘polite facade’ ballroom parties in Grand Shayard).
Inspired by what @Ramidel told me earlier on a different post, there should be a dialogue option that lets Laconnier-sympathetic helot MC attempt to overcome this hurdle: “My fellow Shayardene helots and I don’t necessarily want to be kings, queens, lords, and ladies in our own rights. We just want institutions and trustworthy rulers who can guarantee our basic human rights, our dignity, and sufficient opportunity for all Shayardenes to at least achieve a satisfactory ‘middle class quality of life.’ Show us AND the rest of Shayard that you have earned your noble privilege AND our trust, and we shall spend the rest of our lives (however long or short they may be) protecting said privilege.”
Can the Laconniers be shamed and/or flattered by high-CHA MCs into changing their mind on this absolute refusal to self-sacrifice?
1- (The Golden Rule) “How can you reasonably expect unconditional loyalty/sacrifice from Shayard’s citizens if you don’t show them unconditional loyalty/sacrifice in return?”
2- (Flattery) “I only know of these Shayardene legends what you taught me. To be honest, it means nothing to me or my people. Nor does station or bloodline. What means more to me is honor. And loyalty. And character. Traits you showed when you risked your reputation and life to break Breden and I out from Keriatou custody. Traits you showed when you poured time, money, and energy putting together the Halassur-backed supply chain that provided us the anti-Plektoi spears we needed for our survival and victory. These are the reasons I serve you, milord Abelard. Your song is not yet written. I will serve you until it is.”
Compared to Hera’s dynasty of Thaumatarchs, how many leaders has the Lykeion cycled through? (since the days of the Lykeion’s founding)
I welcome the potential added challenge for the endgame! 
(or alternatively, welcome the advance warning I need to thoroughly wipe out the Ennearchs by G4’s end)
But on another note, you’ve piqued my interest (even further). Is this female Ennearch powerful/influential enough to lead a Big Three/Four-scale faction in her own right, or is she merely just powerful/influential enough to be that faction’s second-in-command/middle management?
Assuming that the “rump Thaumatarchy(ies) in the north” could be shattered/co-opted early (or instead contained by MC’s other forces/allies), how would the Zhüj feel about being reassigned to (once again) aid the Erezzan border defense (and/or potential crusader invasion) against Halassur?
Slaughtering/pushing back “Halassurq scum” has become as natural/routine to the Zhuj as breathing, right?
You’ll get to see that balance beginning to break down under the impact of the “Rim Commotion,” and have the opportunity either to contribute to the collapse or to try shoring things up. (Or just to remain a disinterested spectator, while trying to remotely manage the Rim revolt.)
Is there really any actual tradeoff towards devoting time/energy to both Irduin and the management of the Rim revolt? My current optimistic hunch is that most MCs will be able to reasonably balance between the two priorities (handling Irduin-related matters in the day time, and then in the evening, writing down instructions to be covertly mailed to MC’s chosen Rim Commotion leader), perhaps especially made easier if MC deliberately kept anarchy low in Game 1.
Sounds like Hector’s always been a (budding) Earlunder aristo at heart. (despite whatever lip service he pays, as a Laconnier, to “serving the One True King”)
And on another note: Havie, considering that MC will likewise be treated as a country bumpkin by his Southriding contemporaries (during the Game 2 time spent infiltrating Grand Shayard as either a differently named aristo or as a free folk trader), will there be an in-game statistic to track MC’s “resentment towards the Southriding” attitude? (that influences whether or not deciding to form Earlund (or some other Shayard splinter state) becomes a selectable (or grayed out) dialogue option in later games)
On the other hand, since there can be pragmatic (rather than sentimental) reasons for MC to advocate for an Earlund-Brimlund split (e.g. double Shayard’s vote on the envisioned post-Hegemonic koinon), perhaps having such a momentous decision contingent upon an attitude statistic might be far too limiting?
If all former helots of Shayard were liberated (and then subsequently assimilated into the general free population), and if, as previously discussed/speculated upon, the typical family among the post-Hegemonic Shayardene free folk achieved a sustainable and respectable middle-class standard of living (cough cough at the expense of certain kinds of undesirable foreigners), then might MC be able to encourage (further) compliance (from the Shayardene free urban poor) with the lottery? (in addition to Teren’s suggestions about repression and “bread and circuses”)
I’m not too experienced with the “bread and circuses” trope, so I asked ChatGPT for assistance on this one.
"Examples in History:
1. The Roman Empire: The original context for the term, where emperors and politicians provided free grain to the citizens and spectacular gladiator games, chariot races, and other entertainments in the Colosseum and other venues to maintain social peace and control.
2. France before the Revolution: The French monarchy, especially under Louis XVI, is often criticized for lavish spending on palaces and luxury while ignoring the famine and poverty affecting the populace. However, the situation was more complex and included other contributing factors.
3. The Soviet Union: The government maintained rigorous control over resources and information, ensuring that citizens were provided with basic necessities and some degree of leisure and cultural activities even amidst economic struggles, to project an image of stability and prosperity.
4. Nazi Germany: The regime undertook massive public works programs, like the construction of the autobahn, and promoted leisure activities through the “Strength Through Joy” program to build a positive image and distract from its aggressive, repressive policies.
It’s crucial to note that while “bread and circuses” can have a pejorative connotation, implying manipulation and deceit by the rulers, public services and entertainment are not inherently negative or insidious. They can also be genuine efforts to enhance the quality of life of citizens. However, the trope refers specifically to scenarios where such provisions are used cynically or superficially to distract from other issues or manipulate public perception.
In popular culture, the trope is often explored in various forms of media like films, books, and television series, where rulers pacify and control populations using superficial pleasures while ignoring or obfuscating underlying societal issues or oppressive policies. An example in fiction is the “Hunger Games” series, where the Capitol provides violent and dramatic entertainment to distract the population from poverty and oppression."
Which model(s) of bread-and-circus bribes will Teren most likely suggest for MC’s regime: Roman, pre-Revolution French, Soviet, Nazi, and/or Hunger Games?
Looking back, I now remember that you made your above observation transparently and painfully clear via Ismene’s harsh Game 1 reaction (towards aristo MC’s suggestion that Shayard’s helots and aristos should be considered equal allies in solidarity). 
And how much of a glaring double standard would it appear for MC to plead for Erezza to be exempted from his proposed anti-foreigner agenda? (especially if his close alliance with “BFF mage aunty” Cerlota was publicly known)
Or could MC easily reconcile his Erezza-sympathetic attitude with his “let’s toss most of the other foreigners under the bus” agenda by leaning on religious (soft) nationalism? (“Our coastal brothers and sisters have tossed aside Karagond heresy in favor of our Shayardene codex; it is our duty to welcome the Erretsins into our religious fold by protecting them from the Halassurq heathens!”)
And because of the Whendward Band’s Whendish members’ loyal service to MC in Game 1, MC may also be inclined to ask for special treatment/leniency on behalf of the clans the Whendward Band Whends originated from. (who have allegedly “tossed aside their pagan gods to embrace Xthonos and the teachings of His Eclect’s Shayardene Codex (MC).”)
But otherwise, my ruthless MCs (in this sort of scenario) will definitely be gunning for Karagonds, Abhumans, and Halassurqs. (and are still not entirely sure how to deal with atheistic Nyryal, especially the frightening Magic Mongols)
Upon consulting/training ChatGPT for further advice, it had this to suggest:
"Reflecting on historical analogs, particularly the case of Haiti during its era as a French colony, offers some thought-provoking strategies that might be employed by MC in a hypothetical scenario. In Haiti, the “affranchis” or Free People of Color, emerged as a distinct class – often prosperous, educated, and sometimes slaveholders themselves, yet still subject to systemic discrimination. This group played a pivotal role in the Haitian Revolution, serving at various times as allies to both the enslaved African majority and the European powers.
What if MC implemented a divide and conquer strategy, somewhat similar to what transpired in Haiti, by elevating a select group of helots into a newly-created social stratum, who would potentially owe their newfound status and prosperity directly to their aristocratic benefactors? This selective elevation might create a buffer class that simultaneously provides the helots with visible (albeit limited) upward mobility, while also establishing a new ally for the nobility against widespread uprising. Could such a tactic of creating a ‘middle class’ of helots who have more to lose from a generalized rebellion be an effective strategy in maintaining stability and quelling demand for more radical change?
I’m interested in your thoughts on how such a strategy might unfold within the context of Shayard and whether it could act as a viable alternative, or if it might inadvertently hasten the destabilization and potential upheaval within the socio-political structure."
The Habsburg side of my imagination yearns for release. 
Can this Nereish urban-nomadic divide be solved (or at least reasonably mitigated) with one or more marriage alliances?
Alternatively (or in conjunction), perhaps my koinon-aspiring soft nationalism MC could inspire both Nereish nomads and Nereish urbans to bury the hatchet in the pursuit of a dream of unified Nyryal (that can stand together with the other soft nationalism-driven archonties against Karagon).
Havie, did @idonotlikeusernames correctly predict this “deniable scale”: a “couple hundred to the low thousands at best of foundlings and camp/prison born babies and some kids from occupied Karagon”? (or did you have something smaller or larger in mind?)
Will immortal INT MC be able to reach a “several generations later” epilogue, in which he witnesses his post-Hegemonic faction fully (and finally) realizing that idealized “USA-type republic” status?
Given those advantages, how likely is Tsagir to become the new capital of post-hegemonic Nyryal? (or perhaps even the new capital of a broader, northern Rump Thaumatarchy?)
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Fwiw, this system was still quite repressive on the ‘afrancesados’, and it actually contributed pretty heavily to the Haitian Revolution as the struggle for local power ended up dragging the slaves into it and got them kicked out of the country entirely when they couldn’t control them.
Further, the poor whites in Haiti (who in the Hegemony’s case would be the Yeomen, I assume) actually resented the afrancesados quite a lot, and there were societal struggles between those two groups.
Maybe not the best idea to rip off from France.
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“It is every citizen’s final duty to go into the tanks and become one with all the people.”
—Chairman Sheng-ji Yang, “Ethics for Tomorrow”, Sid Meier’s Alpha Centauri
Stability might be the fatal flaw of this kind of plan, ultimately. Logan’s Run, after all, is a journey towards rejecting this sacrifice and escaping it. People are scared to die, and if this “retirement” applies universally, we’d risk non-compliance becoming all the more common and dangerous. Are Alastors going to barge into someone’s home and drag their parents or grandparents off to the Harrower if they don’t do so voluntarily? What lengths would the rich and powerful go to just to stay alive? Or anybody, really, to keep themselves and their loved ones alive?
At some point, the system may decide that it’s preferable to trade off exceptions in exchange for “peace” and stability — and that those whose sacrifice is demanded to be denied power or even the will to rebel. And suddenly we find ourselves in a place not unlike the helotry of the Thaumatarchy today, where all but a few helot elders are Harrowed once their perceived utility falls. The price to smother rebellion is injustice, and the price for “justice” or “fairness” in selection is rebellion.
There is, however, an interesting theoretical approach deriving from this, one that’s fundamentally impractical but makes for a good exercise in dystopia. The key: the Thaumatarch’s death switch; how Kleitos “holds the lives of the Nine in his hand at all times.”
That technique is shrouded in mystery: we don’t know how costly it is, or whether it could be engineered into passing through generations. But if you could, and if it’s cheap — well, perhaps a godlike Thaumatarch could hold all their people’s lives, and thereby compel compliance. Then again, in such a case where you could hold a sword over every living person’s head, you wouldn’t need the farce of “retirement” in the first place.
And to be clear, it’s highly unlikely that the death-switch is anywhere near so refined or universally applicable, and in the end its secrets may go to the grave with Kleitos anyway.
But this does tie into my intuition behind positing that Kleitos’s mission is pursuing / reaching the realm of Xthonos / the Beginning of All Existence, as opposed to taking a particular interest in ruling the Hegemony: the Thaumatarchy does not feel like a dystopia run by a godlike supercomputer optimising the extraction of human resources. It feels like an injustice created by greed, fear of rebellion, compromise with elites, and an ideology of dehumanisation — the sum total of generations stretching long before Hera ‘gifted’ the world with the knowledge of Harrowing.
It’d struck me as interesting how Memnon de Merre managed to face death with some dignity, despite being obviously terrified. Not flinching away to the very end, or even taunting a merciful rebel if they’ve been known to hurt aristos. With this new context, it makes one wonder if he’d always expected things to end like this, one way or another. Or, at the very least, had made peace with it and prepared for it. Maybe even rehearsed his words at night when the fear creeps up on him.
Makes one wonder if others of his generation are also like this; like, for instance, Stilos and Mertice Keriatou. The de Merre children have a lot in common with Hector, after all — insecure, vengeful, and driven to become truly horrible people by the expectations of “nobility” under the Thaumatarchy, compounded by the fear of losing face amongst their “noble” peers.
This view has been pretty fascinating for me because I think I have an overly negative bias against Abelard, despite his actions generally being good for the rebellion. It just feels like he’s playing us, wielding us as a weapon against the Karagonds in secret. That his interest in our survival is contingent only on the fact that we’d do more damage to the regime alive rather than dead. He is affable, and probably bears at least some genuine admiration for us rebelling in a way he’s so far refused; but he still stood by as children were tossed into the woodchipper one by one, and has dedicated his talents chiefly to an aristo-centric parochial movement. Not to mention that it’s unclear how much or how little Abelard sacrificed to get the Theurge-forged spears from Halassur.
My intuition is that the Ennearch in question would be Thaïs, master of the Kryptasts, the most irreplaceable of the Nine. She’s the first Ennearch named (other than Sarcifer) in the entire story, arguably the most dangerous, and so intertwined with the crimes of the Thaumatarchy that there can be no reconciliation.
If that’s the case, I would suspect that her role wouldn’t be raising a new Thaumatarchy from the ashes, but rather wielding what’s left of her networks to break those responsible for her world’s downfall.
For what it’s worth, the Wiends of the Whendward Band are adherents of Xthonos, and rather faithful ones at that. Violate Horion and Linos’s guest right, and they will not be happy about this offence to the Angels. It’s fundamentally unclear just what role the Forgotten Gods play in Wiendrj, and even what phrases like “Memory guide you” mean precisely. It’s unclear whether they were always meant to be forgotten, or this reflects their loss to the faith of Xthonos.
I can’t say that this is impossible for the hereditary aristocracy to grasp, only that it is not a natural path through the role the Thaumatarchy has tasked them to play. When loyalty is demanded by bloodline and the will of the Thaumatarch, the idea that loyalty ought to be rooted in mutual, reciprocal sacrifice with any common person can seem alien. It hasn’t worked that way in three centuries, and I’m doubtful that it worked that way before then too. It takes a leap of compassion to reach this, and a further leap to make this an act of universal compassion towards the helotry who the Thaumatarchy treats worse than cattle. The Aristo MC’s mother understood this in her words: “We’ve failed our helots. Nobles are obliged to protect the defenseless—not to sacrifice them to protect ourselves!” I can’t say that no aristo could ever follow in her footsteps. But not a single one we’ve met so far has come close.
Her role was not that of Abelard’s, or Teren’s, or Calea’s, or Hector’s. Her goal wasn’t the same as theirs, either, even with how much she loved the Romantic Shayard of olde. Her life, in the end, was about salvation. Not necessarily for the world, but for the people around her. Old Joana tells us as much:
“She never hated your father, however much he deserved it. That compassion that let her treat a helot like a sister? It meant she’d never have given up on saving him.”
To the end, she never gave up on him. And that’s just it — the end. She died, and he was left wandering the earth an empty shell of bile and hatred, withering away, driven to the brink of madness before dying in the jaws of a hound of Karagon.
That radical compassion isn’t wrong. But it’s not something that derives from statecraft and legislation, or fighting for justice, or killing evildoers. And frankly, I’m not sure if it can emerge within the power structures that accompany hereditary aristocracy, which commands loyalty chiefly on the basis of tradition and family lineage. The “nobles” need not be aristocrats, nor from the right family — we can turn these words around to mean that only those who protect the defenseless are truly “noble”, and only those who truly offer loyalty and self-sacrifice are deserving of our loyalty and self-sacrifice.
But the end of that road might not so much be fitting aristocracy to fit the mold of the “noble”, but in reinventing what it means to be “noble” in the first place, in such a way that more or less cuts out the aristocracy under the Thaumatarchy.
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That’s of course a fundamental element of the current helot harvesting policy, though with a lower age threshold (and one which has a bit of extension available for elders). A Harrower state trying to shift away from slavery while keeping up its phial numbers might well attempt to waive the other elements of helot harvesting while broadening or universalizing the classes who get auto-Harrowed when they get old. That might allow them to raise the age threshold to something closer to average cross-population life expectancy.
You’d have to fight a lot of people to implement it – both non-helots resisting having the sacrifice extended to them, and helots for whom the “Harrower at the end of all roads” is precisely what they’re trying to be free from. @Azthyme is right that it will be destabilizing.
But that’s true to varying degrees of any blood policy, and this one is unlikely to fail as utterly as trying to institute a child sacrifice system in Shayard. So yeah, worth having on the menu.
The kind of privilege that would among other things lock in their landholding rights and ensure that they are only accountable to their peers, not to the lesser orders, for any violation of the law. See the mention of Jefferson upthread for a reminder of the kinds of gaps in justice that would keep open.
The game will definitely give you the chance to talk to Abelard about his choice to send Halassurq weapons to a helot revolt in a district where his fellow faction members were aristarchs. 
Some as individuals. But not enough to swing the faction as a whole to support any idea of nobles going to the Harrower.
Plenty! There’s a lot more turnover among Ennearchs than among Thaumatarchs. But I’m not going to multipy Coughcoughatous to come up with a specific number that will almost certainly not be relevant to the actual story.
We’re still years off my writing out all the Zhüj options, but my instinct is that they’re going to be happy to be home, and not want to go back east.
Absolutely not. Ch 2 has alternating sections where you’re spending time with people in Irduin and spending time guiding the Rim revolt. The latter sections are available to all MCs, not just to ones that are taking a hands-off approach to Irduin’s crackup.
He doesn’t even pay much lip service to it, personally. That’s just Dad’s faction. His and Calea’s loyalty to the “One True King” is about as strong as Abelard’s loyalty to a minor Laconnier aristarch family – and the reverse also applies (Abelard’s a true believer in the de Syrnon restoration).
We’ll see. There’s a lot going on in Shayard City, and a lot of attitudes the MC can have that would be relevant. There will definitely be questions about your attitude toward the City (with some intended thematic resonance with the City you’ve already encountered in Ch1: is Grand Shayard a nexus of predators feeding parasitically off its massive hinterland, which needs to be brought down for the health of the realm, or is it a place of hope from which a strong leader could restore order and justice to the land?)
And because “Brimlund” is more than just the Southriding – as well as a concept with massive practical fallout – I certainly wouldn’t let any attitude the MC expresses toward Grand Shayard/SR nobles determine their choice on splitting the realm in a future game.
Good luck achieving that outcome, period – let alone achieving it before you’ve had to make a decision about blood harvesting institutions. Within its present boundaries Shayard has 9m free urban poor and 3m urban drudges, 15% of the province’s population; bringing that many people out of poverty is unlikely to happen during the economic devastation of an imperial collapse, even before you start talking about adding 40m+ former helots to their number.
Well, don’t rely on ChatGPT to help you figure it out. It’s right about the core meaning of the term: the purported Roman practice of keeping the masses from rising up by making sure affordable bread was always available on the market and providing large-scale spectacles/entertainments to distract them. But you could have got that just fine from Google/Wikipedia (along with more relevant and thought-provoking detail in the Wiki article).
What comes after that is mostly crap. The French example is (by ChatGPT’s own “analysis”) one of a monarchy ignoring the populace, not providing them with either bread or circuses; what’s it doing here? The USSR is a fine example of bread but it was pretty poor at anything circus-like (despite the weasel words GPT tosses in there).
The Nazi example isn’t as bad – Kraft durch Freude was arguably a pretty effective program to keep ordinary Germans happy with easily available entertainments, and Hitler was a master of spectacle – but public works take us beyond “bread”. The connotation of the original phrase is tossing cheap food to the masses; the building of the autobahn etc. is I think better seen as an example of mass mobilization, which was central to many modern ideologies and distinguishes them from premodern (or less ideological modern) authoritarian states’ policies for keeping the masses apathetic and disengaged.
ChatGPT can clearly help make some fun RP conversations – but when it comes to educating ourselves about something, honestly, it’s worse than worthless. It will confidently “lie” (because it has no way to reliably distinguish truths from lies). It will toss in irrelevancies and dress them up with meaningless verbal froth like “the situation was more complex and included other contributing factors.” Stick with Google, and develop the skills to recognize the quality sources it feeds you from content mills – that’ll serve you much, much better than developing a ChatGPT dependency.
Anyway. When I used the phrase for Teren, I didn’t have gladiatorial games in mind – I don’t think that’s likely to be in the future of the gameworld. I don’t have a specific “keep them entertained” option in mind right now, and don’t think Teren does either; we’ll both go looking for one when the time comes.
I think you could sustain a meaningful distinction in the public mind between the Karagonds (oppressors!), Halassurqs (war enemies!), and Abhumans (creepy and unnatural!), and the other provinces that have like you been under the Hegemony’s boot. It would certainly be possible for a homelander MC to demonize everyone who doesn’t speak some form of Shayarin, especially if millions of those people come spilling across your borders looking for food. But it should also be readily possible for a nationalist to distinguish some specific foreign nations as The Enemy while the others are OK. Especially for the ones like Erezza and Wiendrj* that share your religion.
*if the cult of the Forgotten Gods doesn’t make a massive comeback as the Hegemony cracks up
Absolutely not. Sorry, Crusader Kings IV this simply ain’t.
Sounds plausible. We’ll see.
Nope. As I’ve said upthread, while I reserve the right to make some exceptions, my plan is that the epilogues will generally end a generation or so after the main wars of G5 have reached a resolution. Whether that finds the MC expecting to die of old age soon or expecting many more Theurgically-granted decades may affect the tone of the epilogue but won’t affect where it stops.
I’m going to say not remotely likely. But let’s see how the story rolls.
This is, for the record, why I’m not sure that even Thaïs is going to make it to G5. But I’ll go ahead and reveal that this trick is actually one more thing in the special 4% category, and can’t be extended to the whole population.
And ADAT, @Beezlebub joined the conversation on the WIP thread – I think he still pops up on the forums from time to time? He provided a lot of enthusiasm and some good ideas over the years, so thanks, Beez.
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A possible implementation that jumps to mind is the Elect finding the sacrifice demanded pf Helots to be halal, but that the franchise limited only to helots is haram. The compassionate sacrifice of life to keep Xaos at bay the is the right and duty of every Angles-fearing person!
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Makes me wonder now if part of the reason Calea would potentially help the Aristo MC is so that if said Rebellion potentially grows bigger, it might also affect their lowland peers?
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Not only on the party, I suppose.
Communism in some of former warsaw pact countries fell because (at least that’s one of the reasons) the bread stopped being affordable 
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Quite right – I should have noted that the USSR is a fine example of the weaknesses of the “bread” approach to legitimacy, too.
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I have a feeling this is the way my mc is going to lean quite heavily as land redistribution is going to be one of the highest priority items once he actually controls anything. That doesn’t mean cities don’t have value, quite the opposite just that it would be better if the city and the hinterland complement one another instead of the city serving as an agglomeration of parasitic “nobles”. To that end it would be better off with a reformed administration headed by the merchants with some former telones to support them.
But more than Grand Shayard, particularly if going for the Western option, what my mc would care about as far as cities go is the port town/city of Osterport (possibly to be renamed simply Eastport) more than grand Shayard itself, so likely expect industry and investment to be more directly concentrated around the port with little interest in maintaining many of the noble districts in Grand Shayard, which could mean they’d become the slums of the future.
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You gotta love how this society is so messed up that we’re trying to improve it with ideas from dystopian fiction.
This mean we get some of those air rifles?
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Yep. Abelard likes his anti-Plektoi spears much better – on some level he recognizes the potential of guns to democratize warfare – but since it’s meaningfully easier to smuggle weapons manufactured within the Hegemony’s borders than it is to get a magic weapon through a Wardgate, he’ll settle for Erretsin wind-spitters when they’re all his suppliers can give.
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I assume he is as opposed to it as my mc is all for it, since making the warrior caste essentially obsolete deals another blow to the nobles who form much of that warrior caste, to the point where a goal for his rebellion is to start producing them and hopefully even iterate on the current best designs.
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I wonder if wind spitters could be theirgically enhanced like the sword you can get.
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Was there a distinction between the Yeoman and whatever they called the helots in Shayard back in the day? Cause I’m wondering if there were serfs or the equivalent in Shayard, and if you need to be a Yeoman or a landowning farmer to vote?
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If you want the all-piercing effect, you’d need to modify the bullets rather than the gun – and that’s a lot of blood to spend on something that you probably won’t get back. (An all-piercing bullet will probably end up buried in a hundred meters of rock somewhere after it’s fired – unlike a crossbow bolt, whose head can be made all-piercing to get through armor, but whose shaft and fletching create enough drag to slow it down after impact and make it usually retrievable.)
You could alter the teloi of the gun itself to try to make it shoot further or more accurately; but those alterations wouldn’t change the likelihood of breakdown (which is reasonably high, given how many fiddly parts under high pressure are involved), so you’d be investing lots of blood in a weapon with a relatively short lifespan.
All in all, crossbow bolts with super-piercing heads are the preferred way of boosting the efficacy of missile weapons with Theurgy. They’re small enough that in an unstoppable/immovable encounter, as with Theurgically enhanced clothes or Plektoi armor, the bolt will usually be the thing that fails (which is why big enhanced glaive-spears are the traditional anti-Plektos weapon, and anti-Theurge doctrine involves lots of regular missiles rather than trying your luck with an incredibly costly enhanced one). But they do great at getting through ordinary infantry armor, or sniping someone through a thin wall.
Yes, but it varied by region. More on that to come in the chapters I’m writing.
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