Choice of Rebels Part 1 WIP thread

Well,

I’d say the most prominent is the forcing of the protagonist from the peripheral to the center…

but I’ll have to defer further disclosure till later.

While I appreciate this, I was referring to how the Greek humors and such are operational in @Havenstone’s storyverse - we are going to need to use that to our advantage to keep everything at the level we need.

The scientific methodology still seems to prevail here - I see the inquiry process more akin to the way the early Arab teachings were brought forth.

Isn’t that a pretty common theme in fantasy, backwards farm kid moves out into an up in the world?
though I’ll say it again if you don’t smash the caste system there will be very little “up” for the helot mc. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

My mc, if he knew about mr. Edding’s works would be most likely to make the connection between Shayard’s helots and Arendish serfs, particularly when denouncing the Laconniers. :laughing:

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Yes and no. I’d posit that our MC, here is a journey not only of physical locality but maturity and age as well. Most fantasies have one or at most two of those elements involved at any one time but not all three.

I also see our choices aligning with the choices Garion faced in Edding’s early works - before cynicism and reaction to the dark fantasy wave came into Edding’s stories. (this is a good thing imo.)

Its just what I see - ymmv.

The monomyth tends to go along these lines. Fittingly, XOR Book 1 details the first five steps, or first “part” of the typical “journey”.

Nascence: It’s a normal day in the normal world and the peaceful protag gets called to adventure. (in this case, Breden is the doing the calling)

The Call to Adventure: The protag initially refuses the call, until outside events conspire to make them heed it. (The Harrowing)

Supernatural Aid, or, The Mentor: the protagonist meets with, seeks out, or befriends a person. This person, who may or may not be connected to the supernatural, either gifts the hero with something that can be useful later on down the line, or trains them to be competent in - or to accept - the task at hand. (See: allying with the masked rescuer in the dungeon, but may also be taken to refer to Zvad)

The Threshold: The protagonist either leaves the world they know or is thrust from it by a disaster or event. They cross into the unknown and dangerous world. (starting up, and trying to keep alive, the rebel/bandit band, may also be taken to refer to the “I just killed a guy” scene as well)

The Belly of the Whale: The protagonist can no longer return to that world, at least for now. They are cut off, perhaps by family or friends or by the world they know, and make a choice of great resolve, one that will open them up to create change and a willing metamorphosis of the self so that their “new life” can begin in these new circumstances. (see: when we flee into the wastes, because we all know that’s going to happen and Havie told us so).

There will be a rather more obvious candidate in Game 2 Ch 1.

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Both normal and peaceful might be a bit of a stretch when it comes to describing the Hegemony.

Um, not really my mc would have fled or risen up (much) earlier had circumstances allowed it. :wink:

Not really, or at least not physically till the second game, their role in it changes but they’re still near their familiar old stomping grounds.

Yes, but why would we even want to? That world wasn’t the stereotypical peaceful, pastoral village, it was mostly pain, misery and oppression.

The Monomyth is a nice theory, but like with all things psychology nothing will quite fit neatly into it. Which may be why I prefer the TvTropes approach. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I’d say of all the works here “Children of the Gods” fits this mold much better and seems to follow its structure much more closely.

The monomyth is wide. They say there are only seven stories ever told, and you’ll find things along the same line in everything from Lord of the Rings to superhero comics to Final Fantasy to post-watershed thrillers. It’s not supposed to perfectly fit. It is, like a Trope on TvTropes, marking out a cliche used unknowingly by many people.

It’s even a Trope itself.

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Haha, yes, I suppose it is, though of course my character will do everything in his power to prevent that last phase “return” from applying to him, since he neither wants to return to Rim Square nor to Slavery. :wink:

You will probably want to go back to your home country, though, aye?

Not really, like I said Avezia seems a much nicer place than anything in Shayard.

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Now that I’m on my computer I can talk to you about the Shayard codex, it seems to me that basically due to the fact we had yeomen instead of helots in the first place that there was no mention of slavery. Perhaps it gave a nod to feudalism, but the sad thing in life is that there will always be people who have advantages either due to some cosmic claim of divine right or because they have more money and thus are able to afford better healthcare, education, and consumer goods. At the very least the Shayard codex was more gentle repression compared to the Karagon one.

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Yes, that is very much possible, it is also very much possible that it has a large section on slavery and all sorts of other nastiness, a literal reading of the old Testament in our world could easily be construed that way.
Now 400 years ago, Shayard’s society had moved past all that and such things might not have mattered except to the most fringe of Ecclesiasts, fast forward to now, when a much nastier bunch of Ecclesiasts holds most of the power and, given their Karagond training and background, they might again read such things literally.

It would be like that speech of Bartlett, instead of being a joke, being a dead serious recitation of the law of the land. :astonished:

Of course this is all just speculation, but our dear author’s silence on it makes me suspect the Shayardene Codex may not altogether be as “nice” as its proponents may like to portray it.
The only thing we know is that it does not have the Karagond caste system, but it may well have its own and there may well have been a slave or serf class below the Yeomen back when it was written that gradually fell out of favour.

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I agree I really Think Shayardene old system was a feudal caste system. And about agriculture most of people will die in war and in the aftermath. If i have to put in famine all Karagon y have no problem with it . So with that and a control of popukation through mulow my people would return to no magic business. Also Machinery and advances in other stuff could make some industrialitation more similar to our world one. I wont be use blood except for health in a blood bank. No way.

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You may say I am pointing out nothing specific and I’ll defer to you but I still see what I see, sorry.

Well then you’ve first got to battle your way through the worst famine in history, most likely Mara.
If so your character and mine may very well end up with the same amount of anarchy and a comparable death toll, if we’re not very careful. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I don’t understand what you’re pointing to.

My Character name is EVIL Gandhi. Peace is a lie, In the moment she wins and have a new nobility. She would do the roman tactics of Tabula rasa and systematic killing. There wont remain a karagon alive also great part of other regions would be wipe out. Famine I dont think so all that blood would be stored and keept in a blood bank when all that flying cities and all that disappear if i really need it i could use that blood for agriculture. But due i will wipe a great bunch of population I hardly would needed i will spend money in a new no magic machinery.

Also don’t get me wrong, the noble MC’s family were once a powerful member of society. Which meant that they had to maintain their power through the normal means. The freehold would probably be able to at least moderate the nobility due to holding some power and influence. Freeholders generally are able to moderate nobles because they own the land they work and employ others to till it. While they do pay part of their earnings to the nobles they live under, they have rights and the means to unmake nobles who step over their lines. But the question is, what are the rights of the people these nobles and freeholders would employ to do the menial work for them?

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Surely your example made this obvious. Your hypothetical farm of ten workers produced half again as much by halving the growing time - an increase in yields without a corresponding increase in the number of workers. Ergo, doing the same to all farms increases all yields by 50% without changing the number of workers required. Ergo, it would be possible to shut down a third of the farms after such a transition to return to the original total food production, reducing the total number of people employed in agriculture.

As I suggested before, this is rather inherent to the purpose here. If the magical treatment did not increase yields given a fixed number of farms and workers, there would be no actual benefit to it.

Not at all. The situations are dissimilar, first because the cotton gin didn’t increase cotton production, only the rate and ease of processing, and second because the demand for cotton is not nearly so fixed as the demand for food. In order to actually make use of the cotton gin’s capabilities and expand production, plantation owners had to plant a bigger crop, necessitating more slaves.