But comparing gaming experience with Tobaco is a bit “extreme” , for my opinion … and in-game purchasing is addictive whether or not gambling element is there…
If a game contain paid to win element but without gambling element, is it better objectively? I would think not, for a game who tell you that you can purchase this hero in a box if you pay a certain amount , or you can have certain strategic advantage if you are a VIP member … technically it is still a lure for gamers who want to win or beat anyone in game, and i had seen that it is even worst, because many children or teens are hot headed persons, they won’t stand when they had been taunt by opponents in game and watching their castles being farm every few hours, so they thought by purchasing more armies or powerful hero, they can gain their revenge … so they maintain the vip paid to win status or buy even more advantage, just to want to feel the joy of beating someone else, such non gambling element has the similar effect on kids too … but can it be ban because the feeling of winning is addictive ? I don’t think so…
And the price of paid to win is 100x more expensive than the card game i mention, which a package of tokens is as low as $1…
I agree this is a little bit of gray area here, but it is not fair to ban one type of in game purchase but lenient on the other … so could it possible we ban all in game purchase ? Well, i don’t think.it is possible either …
Hence , it is depending on the situation and public acceptance, i suppose
So I just thought of something. Technically speaking, isn’t reading the first chapter, and then having to pay for the rest, gambling? we don’t know what’s in the rest of the story, so we are in effect paying for a loot box with the rest of the story in it. If the first chapter is good, but the rest of the story is really bad, we don’t have the right to ask for a refund do we?
No because you can tell the writing style and subject from the summary. If gacha and lootboxes aren’t considered gambling, I doubt “reading the second chapter of a book and deciding I don’t like it” won’t be.
That’s why lots of things are not easily black and white…
In other COY games, we need to buy tokens to unlock certain chapter of love option or to unlock certain pictures… so we technically don’t know what is inside the story or that picture , we are also gambling the experience is worth it too…
The mechanics are made to cause the same effect in brains of susceptible people as hardcore drugs people. steal for paying for gambling and loot boxes to point empty fathers account.
I don’t care if is paid to win or whatever the random chance is addictive for a high percentage of population your whales and that is why games pray heavily on them
When you buy a book on Amazon, and it gives you a “sneak peek”, is that gambling? When you go to order food, and you look at the menu that shows you the picture, is that gambling? When you go to buy an electronic, and you don’t know whether it’ll work when you get home or not, is that gambling?
But here’s the thing… how do you know the writing style won’t change? paid gacha and loot boxes are gambling, that seems to be the opinion of pretty much everyone on this thread.
When you buy a book on Amazon, and it gives you a “sneak peek”, is that gambling?
Yes, I’ve never bought a book on Amazon. I buy books in book stores, where I can look through the entire book.
When you go to order food, and you look at the menu that shows you the picture, is that gambling?
This is why I rarely eat at restaurants (except bakeries, where you can see the finished product on display. Even then only if I have to, because you’re still gambling that that stuff is not stale.
When you go to buy an electronic, and you don’t know whether it’ll work when you get home or not, is that gambling?
This is not, because if it doesn’t work you can return it. So that’s not gambling.
Point out one book where the author’s style of writing, characters, themes and plot has changed massively mid-book.
If it doesn’t keep a character it keeps a theme, if it doesn’t keep a plot it keeps the characters. The book is what you get and you buy it knowingly because you’ve read the summary, which tells you what the book is about. That’s all you pay for.
Look, as someone with a budding gambling addiction, I’m going to tell it to you straight.
when you buy a pastry at your bakery, do you get a rush of energy that it’s “not stale”? do you continue to buy stale pastries in the hope of finding one that is “not stale”?
when you are not buying pastries, do you feel irritable and lethargic?
when you finally get a “not stale” pastry, do you feel compelled to purchase even more, hoping that your luck will hold?
Lol… my friend, believe me, there are people who really think those situations are considered gambling , and they will also argue that investing in share, property , or foreign currency is a kind of gambling too, since people are speculating an unknown event on the future price of share, properties and the currency or commodity…
But let us all agree to disagree here, perception of people on many things are divided , we couldn’t force people to believe in something unless they are willing to…
Well… we are just discussing here, nothing we comment could change anything , i am open mind on various points about this
It’s entirely possible for a lot of people to gamble without being addicted to gambling, just as it’s possible for a lot of people to drink socially without becoming an alcoholic. The thing about loot boxes is that it just detracts from the story you are going to tell, it feels like a kludge to me, something that’s retconned for the sole purpose of making more money.
I’m just about as curious as the thread-starter to see if that’s ever possible, but to me that’s like trying to create a positive reaction to someone’s poop in the toilet bowl.
Thank you for completely changing the subject to ignore my question.
In any rate, if you get a “high” and the design of the “game” or “purchase” exploits that “high”, that’s gambling. It preys on the mentally ill and children most of all. That’s why it can never be done well, or if it “can”, for example, without money - it is no longer lootboxes.
I feel if I don’t I’m going to burst through the computer screen and shove my hundreds of pounds sterling gambling fees in your faces, just so you know that can’t happen with food or books.
My two cents: I can’t imagine loot boxes done well. At least in micro transactions when you buy gems or whatever else in game currency it is the game uses every gamer gets the same for the same amount of money, and if I understand it correctly that’s not the case with loot boxes. Both forms of in game purchases depends on using the gamer, manipulating them to want more and getting them to spend more and more money on the game. I despise that already but making that luck based is even worse imo. And yeah loot boxes is gambling, without even a real reward there. What do you gain? More success in a game? Not like that could be used for any good in real life opposed to gambling in casinos and such where you can get real money if you are lucky.
I mean not a book but I bought Bloodborne thinking I’d get a gothic horror about hunting beasts instead of eldritch monstrosities. Plus I went through plenty of shows and comics like that.
Anyway my experience with loot boxes are pretty much only gacha and I only used earned in game currency. I tend to not think it’s worth it because if the game is solely online it might not even exist in a few years
Ok, I like Xenoverse 2’s. They had a premium currency easily farmable in game and the gacha aspect was for a minigame. I think Warframe had one that wasn’t very advertised and made no sense to even consider (buying a pack of random rare mods i.e equipment upgrades which were farmable or tradable) I like the Warframe economy.
And I don’t have personal experience with this game but Dragon Ball Fighterz had a lootbox system that people praised. Since it was easy to earn the currency and it was strictly cosmetic.
If lootboxes are strictly cosmetic items I really don’t mind.
I agree with Mara’s ‘not even once’ stance on addictive practices, but it seems like after the first response from Bathala, we got a bit off topic focusing on a negative practice that truly should be put down sooner rather than later.
Nocturnal wanted to know if a game that gave the player a bonus power for a second run would be interesting, or not.
I think it would be–I also agree with Bathala that it would be a really tricky thing to code around, unless you made it so that there were two specific master buttons at the top with different primary functions.
Along with the usual Menu button for controlling CS typical mechanics like font size, there’s usually a Restart button would do what it always does by giving the game a hard reset, but for a game to use a ‘bonus’ earned in a first play through you would need an alternative option… e.g. a New Game+ button (like the optional stat screen button that not every game makes use of I’ve noticed) might be used to “continue” with the bonus power.
But the biggest hurdle would be making the narrative acknowledge this difference. A well known example I’ll site is when Undertale keeps track of what you did in a previous run–the infamous ‘genocide vs true pacifist’ if you will–and alters how the characters in the game behave toward your playable character. Luckily, half the hurdle of coding difficulty would be mitigated with a master switch option like my New Game+ example, but it would still need a lot of work making certain everything is able to run in parallel after the first play through is completed. It is entirely doable, and could proportionally be less work than a sequel. Still, not many games like to pull a borderline “Groundhog’s day” type narrative, so as far as CoG games go, it would be interesting to see the result even if it fell a little flat.
Providing a ‘sample’, such as a free chapter or taste of the food is in no way comparable to a lootbox or exploiting gambling addiction.
You can read a first chapter in a book. Think this is good and then buy it, read the rest and be disappointed for various reasons, but that is not the same as not knowing what you are going to get.
You still know what you are going to get (ie. the rest of the book/show/food). That you might end up feeling cheated, lied to or just dispointed is not the same as a lootbox. That at worst means dishonest advertising. You also only buy the book ONCE which is important. Most likely if you are dissapointed with the full meal, so to speak, you will not buy from that author/vendor whatever again.
Lootboxes work in the promise of “You don’t truly know what you are going to get, but it might be really, really good”. It lures you in with the promise of something you want, while giving you a really low chance to actually get it. It causes people to buy into the sunken cost fallacy of “If I give up now without getting what I want all the time/money I spent on this is wasted.” And it lures people with the promise of “maybe this time I will get lucky.”
As for the permanent unlocks. I think achievement is the only thing which sticks with playthroughs and not all platforms save the acheivements so I don’t know if it is doable without codes.
If that was the OPs question then if the the loot boxes implemented doesn’t change the story then I probably wouldn’t be interested. If it ads some changes at least in flavour texts then probably I’d check it out tho that’s more likely with a dlc rather than some luck based randomised system.
Quickly wanted to note that you’ll find most developers are actually probably just as un-thrilled about implementing loot boxes as we are experiencing them. At the end of the day, they’re paid to implement what the stakeholders/publishers think will sell.
