Beta for Marine Raider II: Off Guadalcanal

@AllenGies

The squad bits seem pretty clear so far, but the personal bits feel like “Is this going to make me more ____ or ____?” is still a matter of getting the hang of it. I like the actual challenges so far - good set of choices and interesting scenarios - but this is already in hard mode and I haven’t played to the point of actually landing (still playing around to see how my choices impact things on the sub). At least until I get a grip on the stats.

On the subject of events on the sub - enthusiastic kudos for the torpedo issue being brought up. Not vital to our story individually, but no small part of the war, and if we’re on a sub, it being literal life or death for the submariners would be hard to ignore without trying to. +2 to story and historical accuracy!

First of all I just wanna say that I’m really glad that your making this game since marine raider was one the first games from COG that I played and was one of the games that got me into the site.

Now, to answer your question, I alternated between trying to pull them in and trying to shoot down the plane and, once in the water, I tried to shoot the pilot with my pistol, partly because I figured I was fucked anyway and partly because I imagined some badass Rambo moment were I shot the pilot and saved the day, but all I ended up with was a bullet wound in my chest that I’m still not really sure how I survived.

Once on the beach I used my mortars to sink the troop ship because I had two mortars and also because I want to cause as much damage as possible and hopefully soften it up for a invasion.

Couple of detail items I noticed.

  1. There are a couple places where you have it spelled Corp instead of Corps.

  2. A hang fire once ejected would actually have the casing shoot off not the bullet as the casing is lighter than the round. It could still cause damage to flesh but more like a burn/bruise than an actual wound. The real danger is if it hits an eye, ear, face, or finger which can put someone out of action or if someone is holding it when it goes off.

  3. Normally with a hang fire round should be ejected into the dud pit. There is normally a dud pit at the little end of the range. The weapon is made safe, magazine removed, and with the weapon remaining pointed down range everyone else steps off the firing line as the individual with the malfunctioning weapon moves to the little end to eject the round. It is normally against procedure to take an uncleared weapon from another Marine, but I could see the sergeant clearing the hang fire personally to ensure safety. Story-wise though these guys are Raiders and tend to bend (if not break) the rules more than anything.

While right in modern day technique for how the hang fire would be treated, a make shift firing range set up on a South Pacific island would not have been as sophisticated and standard as modern day. Take the .303 round of the time period which was infamous for not firing more than it fired and injuring more people in training than in battle (obviously hyperbole but still). The sand or water is substituting as the dud pit that this firing range did not have built at the time. Again you’re entirely right, just a few years ahead on everyone else realizing that’s the right way to handle the issue.

@Elfwine -So the personal bits need more backbone, or perhaps more distinction? I’m going to put in floats (Knowledge increase, Tact reduced, Health decreased, etc) eventually to let people track how things adjust and perhaps whether a certain action has earned a trust point. Trust points are specific to individuals and are earned through squad interaction. These are spent to get a given marine out a of bad situation wherein they hero up or are just plain lucky to escape a terrible fate.

However, all that is invisible right now. I imagine I’ll have to ask for advice on this down the line once a few changes are in place.

@Verand -Glad you are enjoying this. And yeah, you can’t shoot down a fighter plane with a pistol. You can do it with just about any other weapon (Not the flamethrower), if used at the proper time, but that is about as Rambo as I allow. :slight_smile:

As far as the ‘shot in the chest’ part, I’ll take a look and see if I can word it better to indicate its just a major flesh wound rather than a gamer stopper. It should be three hits of health, the largest a player can take in one blow, mainly because I don’t like to instant-kill unless it was obvious that was what would happen.

Two mortars, one sunk boat, plausible reason for doing so. Glad that worked out. There is a lot the player can do to alter the odds of invasion and the barge is one of them. It does come at a cost, however…

@cascat07 -I will run another check for Corp instead of Corps. Should be along with the next update. The hang fire suggestions are excellent; of course it would be the casing that shoots off. Still bad enough for someone to take a wound, but I do want to depict it right. I never had to suffer a hang fire when I shot, so I never realized those details.

Dud pit. That’s something to be added. Make safe? Remove Magazine? Yep, forgot those parts. I’ll definitely note the difference in handling too. In the story, Jalisco is the newest in the Squad and letting him deal with the round shows how much you trust him… unless the hang fire injures him, in which case hindsight makes the squad think you should have let Baker handle it or done the ejecting yourself.

Does that make sense?

@CoelSmythe -That’s a good point about the location. It could be that the dud pit isn’t obvious, is covered over, or just had the sides collapse. I’ll have to give it some thought. I’ll also have to look into what the Marine Corp manual of 1940 (IIRC they stopped printing them for a while) says on the matter of hang fires. I want to get it right, and at the very least there is the possibility of adding some chrome.

On a broader note, I’ve been thinking of not making Knowledge/Intuition, Judgment/Enterprise, Objectivity/Tact be opposed attributes. All are important to being a Marine and indeed the system as developed is built around the lower opposite of a given trait being effectively pegged at 50, However, I’d like to hear some opinions from beta testers as to what feels right during gameplay.

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@AllenGies

The dud pit doesn’t need to be extravagant. On a permanent range it would be a concrete reinforced hole with a metal lid but on expeditionary range you would just bury an ammo can.

Now days a hang fire is a safety issue that necessitates a cease fire, but I can definitely see Raiders back in 1941 having a bit more cavalier attitude. It probably also helps that hang fires are extremely rare with modern ammunition exceptions being grenades and mortars.

As far as Jalisco ejecting it round, I would think he would be expected to resolve his own problem. It’s his weapon. He needs to be the one to correct this malfunction and get his weapon back in the fight. For safety and training purposes you would slow everything down and make it the focus of effort but its a wasted opportunity for training Jalisco if the MC or Sgt Baker fixes his problem for him imho.

@AllenGies

I’d go for more distinction - I like what we’re dealing with, but I feel more “I’m not sure I understand this as well as my character would.” than I did in the first game, which is a little off putting given that this definitely looks like it’ll be a good game and good story.

Trust points sound like a great concept. Encourages building bonds with your men, which ought to be meaningful beyond just interaction scenes, so kudos.

You just made me smile, twice in one day, first with this beta, and “Hartigan.” as a surname, good show sir.

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I played this four times back to back last night (into the early AM), just enjoying the story! Who needs sleep anyway?!

Items for your review:
“Sorry, Ma’am,” the Private manages to say. “I didn’t expect it to be you.”
“We are a Raiders. We aren’t supposed to be expected.”

The range certainly isn’t much compared those you have practiced at back in the States; just a swath of beach and tree stumps that delineate the bounds.

Your men march toward the firing line,readily embrace the work. A glass of the range with your binoculars determines that all is ready to commence live-fire.

The splash is a distant sensation, scarcely registering over the hot pain. But then he sprinkles sulfa powder directly onto the wound and the urge to itch rises up. Relief come only when he wraps the sundered flesh with a stretch of firm white bandages.

The squat little vehicle roars down the trail and seems to bounce more than it rolls as the Orderly direct the Driver where to go.

The Colonel dismisses the Orderly back to post, all of ten feet away, and steps over to array of the maps.

“Precisely,” Edson says. “We can land men anywhere in the Solomons, but developing a naval base for scratch will take too long and besides, we want to kick the Japs out of their tidy quarters.”

“That’s because it has been,” Edson replies, “Your squad been chopped to me for this mission on account of your squad being the only one around with the needed salt to go with their vinegar.”

Your mission will be to ascertain the status of Sergeant Charlie Martin’s and, if need be, intercede. This mission will last until August 7th."

Lets move on: “There is a question of personal,” Edson explains. “You’ll want more than a blister mechanic when you are in country, so you’d best take a Corpsman along. That is if I can find one who isn’t already spoken for.”

You hurry back to the barracks and find the men sprawled on their bunks as they recover from the march. Even Baker is off his feet and out of his boondockers to massage gnarled toes But that lasts only until he notes your entrance and stands to attention. “Attention!” He calls out and the men scramble to their wear feet.

The silhouette of a deck guns jut out fore and aft of a thick black mast that thrusts up against the setting sun.

“Lieutenant Randel. And yes, the Captain would like see you as soon as possible. Head to torpedo forward and then ask up there,”

From deep in his rack, Private Landry coughs out in disbelief. Private Scott gives a an answering groan from below.

Near the end of the list the Lieutenant gives a strange little pause that you know all too well. When you pass over the slop bucket, he takes greets his breakfast once again.

“Merrik, do you understand why I hit you?”
FYI: Baker slapped him, not me.

“Dawn will coming on all too quick,” Brockman points out. “But we’ll get you ashore, nice and tidy. Trust me on that.”

Afterward, you and your men turn for what sleep they can grab. Near midnight you are wakened when the submarine dives once again.

At the bow Gerhard and Merrik walk together slow and steady in a deep conversation.
Break away from the others and head for Ransom should be Merrik and Gerhard.

You retrieve a life-line and uncoil it in your hand. The Nautilus pitches forward as the boat slices deep into the sea. seems to be missing something here…what happens with the life line, etc.) The rumble of the diesel engines suddenly cease and an eerie quiet falls throughout the steel halls. The rumble of an aircraft passes overhead. The hull suddenly shudders as an explosion churns the sea.

“Maybe,” Brockman says and then shrugs. “She’s riding high in the water. Holds are probably empty. If so, then I don’t understand is what she is doing way out here.”

What does that mean mean?

“You were witness to a great failure of either torpedo design or manufacture,” Brockman replies and pours you a cup of coffee.

Mbungana island is is close by, enough that you can see the white water foam atop the nearby beach.

The endless sea gives way to a pounding waves against a frothy reef as your little rubber boats head south toward Mbungana Island.

Ransom sweep the first hut. Holben limps over to the second. Jalisco covers them both in turn with his BAR.

Your Marines reflexively crouch down as step into the open.

A scent rolls toward you, heavy as a kitchen after a feast. The tang of oily soap is so strongly that you can almost taste it on your tongue.

“And I am Miss Hannah Ross,” she replies. “It is good to see you, despite the circumstances. How then, you must have questions.”

“Yes, Ma’am,” Baker notes as he steps close. “But out mission hasn’t changed. We need to recover Sergeant Martin from this Ile Petite Fleur.”

“We’ll need a plan, a good one,” Baker notes. "We’ve got to get Sergeant Martin out without having to fight thousands of Japs just across the waves won’t be easy.

are you looking for betatesters ? i played your first game (so i know the style how you make them) and i betatested few of game translation to my country language(so i know how testing work, but i would welcome opportunity to move onto bigger league) but i think it would be best if i simply send you PM are you okay with that ?

@cascat07 - You make a lot of sense. The dud pit would be crude, something like an ammo can. And Jalisco really should eject his own round (There are many rifles but that one is his), but the MC could do it for him if need be.

@Elfwine -I get the feeling that choice distinction is something I’m going to be struggling with on this game, Apex was much easier and even Tin Star felt that way as well. We’ll see how it plays out on the first draft.

@Pace675 -Thanks. I like the little call backs to previous games.

@piggleywinks -Hey, great to see you again! You are, may I say, in fine form. All those little things you pointed out will be attended eventually, like the planets in their courses.

@CaesarCzech -Actually, this is the beta-test; informal and done for the joy of the game. The link is up top, but I’ll bring it down again. You can PM me if you like, but you can also post here. Either way works.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/89217689/Marine%20Raider%20Test/web/mygame/index.html

Edit: Text revisions are added. No new content yet.

@AllenGies
no i meant when you move to closed beta.(basically very few games have all people testing until game is relased) essentialy when you close testing for public you will still need few betatesters.

Okay WWII is not my area of expertise but this game seems like it’ll be worthwhile.
I do have a question however, While I could Google what an Annapolis graduate is supposed to be easily enough, I was wondering if someone could point me to some examples of “old breed” and Hollywood marines (Hollywood has made lots and lots of movies about marines, after all) ?

@CaesarCzech TinStar had an open beta up until the final, as far as I can recall.

It was just a reputation thing in the Marine Corps of the day (and to some extent still is). The old breed were Marines who were in the Corps before World War Two started. Hollywood Marines were/are either trained at the new recruit depot in San Diego, initially stationed at one of the bases on the west coast, or occasionally are originally from Southern California and claim to be a “Hollywood Marine.” In general, mostly due to climate, initial training/duty stations on the west coast as perceived to be easier and thus Marines with that background tend to be more enthusiastic and have a rosy outlook on Marine Corps service. Hope that answers your question!

Silly, me thinking, Alan actually had a particular kind of marine, of the type that only exist in movies, in mind for the Hollywood marine (I was thinking of some of the guys in “Full Metal Jacket”, even though the setting for that was the Vietnam War, personally, when I first read Hollywood Marine). I feel dumb now.

Anyway, thanks for clearing things up for me @cascat07

Will Lt. Ishiro Hasebe appear in this game if he survived and did not get captured?

I have to say that I like what I see of this game so far. I particularly like the increased emphasis on interactions with your squad members as well as your Lt.'s personality.

@idonotlikeusernames - @cascat07 clarified things better than I could have. And you aren’t alone in thinking that ‘Hollywood Marine’ meant a movie version of a Marine. When I first stumbled upon that description of a Marine, I too thought it was that.

In fact, that Marine type still bears a hint of that. The ‘Old Breed’ has experience on its side with the conflicts of the inter-war period. An Annapolis Grad is trained in modern (for the time) strategy, tactics, and logistics. But the Hollywood Marine gets a bit of a combat bonus and things tend to fall their way by luck or happenstance.

@NJG - Now that is an interesting idea. If I did link the previous version of Marine Raider, then Lt. Ishiro Hasebe’s escape could be a possibility. Indeed, he might well have been part of the Solomons garrison from the get-go. But it would take an awful lot of work to even bring that possibility to bear.

Part of the trouble with linking the games is that I’d have to rewrite so many elements to take into account losses. Every member of the squad would have to be accounted for or not in every scene based on their survival. Right now, I simply assume that the player managed peak performance in the last game, kept all his men alive on Toga island and captured Ishiro as well.

Did you have something in mind for Ishiro in this particular game? I am certainly open to suggestions.

@RagEgnite -Thank you. Defining the Lieutenant and the squad interactions has been a priority of mine. After all, these are men who may well fight and die under the Lieutenant’'s orders. That is no small thing.

@AllenGies, since Lt. Ishiro Hasebe is captured, maybe the US lieutenant could fight a Japanese soldier/officer who survived the events of the previous game and recognized the player? Or maybe Lt. Ishiro somehow managed to escape the American POW camp even though it sounds impossible and returned to the island? And, a question. Can we get a medal?

Actually Him escaping sounds good,
Player:You Again ?
Ishiro: You Again ?
even in war there is sometimes funny situation, and i think you capturing him again, would result in amazing rant from Ishiro.