It is the government’s responsibility to spend money on the Fringes. If the government spends a lot of money on Millennial city and very little on the Fringes then the government is causing inequality.
It’s just not fair to have unwanted powered outcasts and lower class non-powered people living in a disadvantage and when things are unfair people can become desperate enough to join groups like the Meek movement or the InfraOrder/InfraCircle.
The federal government telling the state government how to spend their money?
I don’t hear about that happening often.
The fact they are evil is clear just when you saw the poster when all the rest of humanity laid slaughter and a family of meek are happily there we shall inherit… You just have to change"meek people" for KKK people" “pol pot people” Nazi people" heroes for jews capitalist or just other races.
All ideas meek used for the 3 extremists groups, genocide groups sell. the they’ve more than deserve are germs dangerous illnesses that rotten our purity, they must be destroyed and brainwashed turning in slaves of real people. This machine will be the final solution for them… Sounds familiar really familiar… Like something someone had said after genocide millions in real life history.
Powered celebrity “heroes” like Black Magic can destroy the world while the playable character has the ability to cause a nuclear explosion.
Powered heroes can cause a lot of damage on a bad day. If you are mean to Black magic he/she will try to destroy the world and you can let Black Magic destroy the world in one of the alternate endings.
There are probably some people who joined the Meek movement and the InfraOrder/InfraCircle for equality and you can’t put all the blame on them for it since the government lets inequality happen.
Middle to upper class powered “heroes” live comfortable lives in Millennial while unwanted powered outcasts and lower class non-powered people struggle to make enough money to survive.
“Non-powered hero equipment” is expensive and lower class non-powered people won’t be able to afford “Non-powered hero equipment” to defend themselves. I also doubt unwanted powered outcasts can afford a “Hero” license.
It is not fair for the middle class powered “heroes” and upper class powered “heroes” in Millennial city to have a lot of money and the license to use their powers for “heroic” actions while the lower class non-powered people and unwanted powered outcasts are put at a disadvantage.
I doubt only bigots joined the Meek movement, some people may have joined because they are tired of the corrupt government’s inequality. Unwanted powered outcasts may have also joined the InfraOrder/InfraCircle because of the corrupt government’s inequality.
You act is if those powered heroes are just given millions of dollars without having to do anything. These people risk their lives every day to try to protect people and are damn good at what they do. If saving hundreds on a daily basis isn’t worthy of the rewards they receive then nothing is.
Actually it is the height of meritocracy. These people have natural born talents and the skill and inclination to use them. Is it unfair that Beyoncé is rich and famous because she is a naturally good singer? Is it unfair that Lebron James is rich and famous because he is naturally good at basketball?
The fact is some people have natural talents that give them a advantage over others. That in no ways means that they are guaranteed success or that people without those natural advantages can never become successful. Non powered people can become just as successful as every single member of the Millenial Group, it is up to them to achieve success on their own and it’s not powered people’s fault if they can’t do that.
To be a powered “hero” a “hero” license if required and a “hero” license cost money. “Non-powered hero equipment” are expensive. The government can make things more equal by making “Non-powered hero equipment” cheaper and letting powered people use powers without a “hero” license. By requiring powered “heroes” to have a license and letting “Non-powered hero equipment” stay expensive the government is letting inequality happen.
Not all heroes save lives to become famous. Fumble and Stage Show are famous because their photos are in magazines. In fact in Heroes Rise Hero Project Fumble and Stage Show would rather be seen fighting InfraOrder members instead of saving lives.
Farmers save lives by growing food for people to eat but I doubt farmers get paid as much as the Millennial group.
Some Meek members and InfraOrder/InfraCircle members might risk their lives to fight for equality. Can they be viewed as heroes for fighting against a corrupt government that lets inequality happen or are only overpaid powered “heroes” who fight against the InfraOrder/InfraCircle and the Meek movement “heroes”?
Beyonce and Lebron James are overpaid. The Millennial Group is overpaid. The government is preventing the lower class “non-powered” people and unwanted powered outcasts from being heroes by letting “Non-powered hero equipment” be expensive and making powered heroes who want to be heroes pay for a “hero” license.
Unless the government directly sells them to people they have no right to dictate prices in a free market society. Even if they do, I imagine gear that would put you on par with powered heroes is really expensive to make, meaning it’s obviously gonna have a higher price.
Sure, absolutely no problem with every half trained wannabe hero using there abilities every chance they get. What your suggesting would lead to pure anarchy and destruction.
But the vast majority do. We’ve only seen two that don’t and dozens who do save lives to become famous.
I don’t really know how to respond to this. Do you really think that a farmer should be paid as much as someone who saves hundreds of lives on a daily basis.
No, they can’t be because unlike powered heroes those groups are terrorists and bigots, people who by their very nature don’t fight for equality but instead for superiority.
They provide entertainment for billions of people on a regular basis, I think that they deserve that money just as the Millenial Group deserves theirs.
Farmers grow food to sell it.
They make money selling a necessity.
Their like a pharmacy or hospital
That doesn’t seem very selfless.
Also I doubt there is that much risk in farming.
(funny thing the riskier your job the more you get paid)
It would lead to unwanted power outcasts and non-powered heroes taking out bad guys which would make groups like the Millennial Group not needed which is a good thing since the Millennial group are overpaid. The unwanted power outcasts and non-powered heroes can then be employed for high risk jobs.
Millennial Group member Black Magic tries to destroy the world because the playable character is mean to him/her.
So if the Millennial Group or powered response units fights for a corrupt government that lets inequality happen against the Meek movement and/or the InfraOrder/InfraCircle who are fighting against a corrupt government who is unfair to unfair to lower class non-powered people and unwanted powered outcasts then the Millennial Group or DRPR powered “heroes” are the good guys while the Meek movement and/or the InfraOrder/InfraCircle members are the bad guys?
While the Meek movement and InfraOrder/InfraCircle members are fighting against a government that is unfair to them they are extremists. The Meek movement and InfraOrder/InfraCircle do have some good intentions and legitimate grievances.
The Millennial Group or DRPR powered “heroes” who fight against the InfraOrder/InfraCircle and Meek movement are fighting for a corrupt government. They are not good guys.
The conflict between the Millennial Group/DRPR powered “heroes”, InfraOrder/InfraCircle and the Meek movement is a gray area.
On one hand the InfraOrder/InfraCircle and the Meek movement are terrorists and bigots and have bad leaders on the other hand the government have been so unfair to lower class non-powered people and unwanted powered outcasts and they do have some good intentions and legitimate grievances.
The corrupt government spends too much money on the Millennial group and Millennial city(where middle class powered “heroes” and upper class powered “heroes” live.) The corrupt government also keeps “non powered hero equipment” expensive and tries to prevent unwanted powered outcasts from using their power so that the Millennial Group can be overpaid and have a monopoly on taking down bad guys.
The Meek movement and the InfraOrder/InfraCircle may be extermists but they are the only groups mentioned standing up for the non-powered people and unwanted powered outcasts respectively.
No, it would lead to a bunch of people with little to no idea how to use their suddenly having free rain to start shooting electricity and fire bolts at every pickpocket and two bit thug. If they ever faced a actual villain they would be slaughtered in seconds by someone with the raw power and skill to pose a actual threat to trained heroes.
You’ve yet to provide any real evidence of this.
[quote=“throwaway46572946592, post:49, topic:14170”]fights for a corrupt government that lets inequality happen
[/quote]
Except the government isn’t corrupt and it’s not its fault that there’s inequality in the world. This isn’t some kind of Utopia where inequality would be eradicated if it weren’t for the big bad government.
Any group that engages in the type of terrorism and bigotry displayed by them is evil, plain and simple.
Of course the government will invest more in places that contribute more to the economy. What you’re saying is that the government should invest more in failed areas like Detroit than in vital parts of its economy like New York. It would be bad for the economy and thus bad for society in general.
For the exact reasons that I stated earlier.
You seem to think that the government is in some sort of evil conspiracy with the Millenial Group to keep them in power despite the fact that it would be cheaper, easier, and keep people happy if they just let everyone be a vigilante. It would make no sense for them to fund the Millenial Group of that we’re the case.
And let’s just forget the mountain of corpses they’re willing to stand upon as long as they get what they want; superiority.
(“Powered Heroes have eclipsed movie stars and music icons to set the standard for A-list celebrity” “Even the lowest-level group members(When referring to the Millennial Group) make half a million dollars a year. That’s…insane” (quotes are from Heroes Rise: The Prodigy)).
Non-powered people will buy different “non-powered hero equipment” and unlicensed powered people will have different powers so the result of letting non-powered people have cheap “non-powered hero equipment” and letting powered people use powers without a license will be different for different people and different groups of people.
The government should invest in poor areas like the Fringes so that the Fringes will be more developed and have the ability to contribute more to the economy.
So it is better for a small group of people(Millennial Group and other government backed “heroes”) to have all the powered powers? If “non-powered hero equipment” becomes cheaper and if hero license aren’t need to use powers then non-powered people and unwanted powered outcasts would be able to defend themselves from bad guys.
I doubt everyone who joins the Meek movement and the InfraOrder/InfraCircle believe in superiority. Some of them might have joined because the government is unfair to them or to fight for equality.
A government that lets president Victon come into power is a corrupt government. A government that invests more in Millennial city rather than the Fringes(which needs money) is a government that keeps the middle class powered people and upper class powered people comfortable while letting unwanted powered outcasts and lower class non-powered people suffer.
It doesn’t matter who joins them. It’s what they do. And what they do isn’t even close to being right.
Take Sri Lanka for example. A government who wasn’t fair to a rather large minority. They resorted to violence to fight for freedom. What do they end up becoming? Terrorists.
When you join an organisation out of your own free will, you are automatically condoning their methods. They aren’t being force to join.
Are the American revolutionaries terrorists? The American revolutionaries used violence.
Honestly, I don’t know much about the American Revolution or whatever it’s called. But probably.
But the American revolutionaries eventually became the current American government.
Yet, it happened generation ago.
I don’t remember george washington bombing a city.
Or harvesting peoples life force to power a machine to force everyone to transform into animal people.
Also where are people going to get cheap crime fighting gear?
Last time I checked capitalism doesn’t care about ideals and such.
Also they still need to train with said equipment which will cost money.
Also to fund the fringes that money has to come from somewhere
Either by raising taxes.
Or by moving money from a different district.
Which alot of citizens would be against and raise the hate against the fringes.
And the point of a hero license is to keep tabs on all the heroes running about.
Get rid of that system and anarchy intensifies.
It allows them to effectively watch, discipline, advise, and prosecute heroes.
I’ve seen a fair bit of comparisons between the two orders in question and the Nazi party. Let’s get some of the intricacies straight, because the story itself is pretty heavy-handed in explaining some of them to us. Actually, the story is heavy handed enough that the blunt answer to the topic’s question is “No, definitely not, end of discussion.” But we’ll go for the appropriate debate approach instead:
The Meek could be easily compared to the Nazi party. They spotlight themselves as the unfortunate, the unpowered, the hopeless, the underdog against a major threat. At the same time, they have extremely wealthy members and powerful patrons. They manipulate the political systems and national moods in order to place key people in positions of power, and they use the same systems to place key people in positions of power in the industrial sector. They end up rich enough to finance and operate a floating city-state and construct legions of highly enhanced battlesuits, as well as equip unpowered people with the technology to imitate powers.
The Meek are not the underdog in a fight against the powered any more than the Nazis were the underdog in a fight against some imagined Jewish conspiracy of global domination. They both just paint themselves in a shroud of propaganda in order to gain followers from the disenfranchised, who can be in turn manipulated and brainwashed.
The InfraOrder is actually much closer to some kind of radical Bolshevik/Anarchist movement. They are the poor, the desolate, the working class. Despite their powers, they are the disenfranchised and the downtrodden. The question whether or not they are worse off than unpowered poor people is left in the air in the story, but one would assume that they would be around the same level. InfraOrder conducts terrorist and insurgent missions in populated areas, their ultimate goal to turn everyone into an image of themselves in a desperate attempt at creating solidarity.
The InfraOrder is in turn manipulated by the Meek (in the Hero Project) to become another highly prominent scapegoat and target of hatred. Much like the communist parties of 1930s Germany, in fact.
Now to other points:
The way you tend to refer to the powered heroes and villains in this equation seems to me like you’re placing them in the place of the bad guys. Alright, I’ll concede that luxurious apartments in the richest part of the city is a bit much, as are the paychecks involved, but that necessitates a cultural and political change, not a full-blown genocide.
They did not take the fame and wealth from anyone, although it could be argued that at some point they should have paused to consider the ramification in a bigger scale. Powered people were slung into fame and fortune because of heroics, which is not at all uncommon in our day either. Hero worship and social media praise/condemnation waves are commonplace (look at Ronda Rousey for example) and it is ultimately the public who put these figures onto a pedestal. Yes, there’s competition as to who gets the most of that pie, but that would take place no matter what the level of wealth and fame would be. There are always people who would do it for wealth and fame instead of ideals, and that is an actual gameplay mechanic in the whole trilogy.
Just like in all hate groups and populist movements, there are people within the ranks with moderate views, and who genuinely believe they are doing the right thing. Most of the movement may be completely oblivious to the fact that their movement is actually advocating extermination, because they are blinded by their selfish interests. Hell, the leadership of the movement might hold some great ideas that would help disenfranchised and poor citizens across the nation. That still does not make it right to advocate for genocide, or forced mutation. The end does not justify the means, especially when there are much more moderate and rational options to be taken.
Your point about government corruption is moot. We know the story takes place in the United States of America (albeit many many years in the future) and we all know the government there is corrupt, or at least incapable and gridlocked. That requires political action from the masses, whether that take form in a revolution or simply voting out the bad apples. That does not necessitate or condone genocide or mass mutation of the general public.
There is also a gap in government involvement in the United States to what you’re advocating. The government does jack all about investing into poverty-stricken areas. That is very much a state issue, at least as far as I have understood how the US system works. Victon very much skipped the most important role in that way: he was never in state-wide politics, just Millenial City affairs and eventually federal-level.
Zach Sergi piled enough Nazi/Bond villain/Fred Phelps tropes on his villains that it’s hard to call them sympathetic, let alone good guys.
But I’m with Throwaway on the sociopolitical structure of the Heroes-verse being awful. It is of course in these respects a magicked-up version of contemporary America, which is why lots of arguments advanced to justify it on the thread sound familiar…
An interesting game could be made in a superpower-verse which the heroes’ antagonists weren’t fascists but egalitarians: “Occupy Millennial City.” Probably best if you had the choice to be on either side of the conflict.
And here’s where the difference with the real world, where drought and flood and disease and price shocks are greater hazards than meanies-in-leotards, becomes stark.
I’d have to say, if those two faction weren’t at all about “destroying everything else”, I’d totally side with them.
Damm my " and @ key functions switched.