@Jackpot1776 - It’s a little early in the campaign for that. But let’s keep it in mind for later when there are Germans about and the opposition is more grim. Making certain your tank can’t be captured and used by the enemy is certainly important and a hard choice to make.
@NJG - A clean retreat option… tempting, but as with Jackpot1776, it feels like its a bit too early for that. There were also opportunities previously to wtihdraw.
That said… there is a friendly unit around to lean on - Sergeant Baume’s French Soldiers. Calling on them to cover you during the repair sounds like a solid option. Popping a signal flag certainly would get their attention and let things proceed.
How about if the PC doesn’t spot the team because of the smoke from the Semovente if it’s knocked out? Thus if/when they approach the tank, the Italians have already set up an ambush position in a gully or something like that with a shot at the side/rear. They’d not show up if the PC got in a protracted engagement with the Semovente, as the fight would have allowed the convoy to get away.
Additionally, they might not necessarily have to disable the PC’s tank – only force the PC’s crew to button up and perhaps confuse them long enough for an Italian to try their luck with an anti-tank grenade on the engine compartment.
I have some ideas, but without a more complete understanding of the environment (especially surroundings) it’s a bit hard to think of ones which aren’t out there.
Here’s a really dumb idea, assuming it’s against infantry and in a relatively built-up area: throw ration tins at the Italians when the show up, based on whether you took the rations earlier. They’ve probably no idea whether it’s a grenade or a can of pate, so they scramble. That gives you enough time to get the coaxial on them.
On a more serious note, if the PC has some explosives and detonators lying around (to scuttle the tank, I guess?) perhaps they could improvise some grenades? Or perhaps an improvised mine of some sort if the terrain allows e.g. a chokepoint?
Another idea would be to grab a smoke grenade during the optional looting sequence at the start of chapter 3, and use that later as an obscurant or using it to fool the enemy into thinking it’s a marker for something. Or even as a signal for the infantry.
A third option, which might be controversial, is to use the French signal flags from chapter 1. The PC would (somehow) use them to cover the US insignia and to imitate a flag – either the French or Italian flags, so as to pretend that their tank is a captured vehicle. The idea would be to confuse the enemy, either to repair the tank or let them get close. Naturally there’s the potential for a war crime here if the PC fires back while under enemy colours. This is a bit forced, I admit, and it would probably easier of the PC got their hands on a foreign flag (either Vichy or Italian) at some point.
Chapter 3 has been revised owing to ideas generated here.
@Thfphen110 - Fake grenades would be an interesting ploy, because tanks generally didn’t carry a lot of infantry equipment and grenade pins can get caught on things. But ration tins are always available.
Also added are the Italians with AT guns as an extended, but optional combat. Also tweaked the opening to include the rest of the tank platoon… though they won’t get to go with you into Tunisia.
All in all, a lot of good ideas were added here. Now they need to be tested. Meanwhile, there will hopefully be time to tackle chapter 4.
Side note, the style will likely change up somewhat to be less detail fixated (or fussy) as the player settles in. They’ll be making more command decisions and also talking with their crew from here on out as more time passes.
@ronald_navas1 - Thanks. Hopefully Armored Recon will get finished.
As to what happened to Marine Raider 2? That’s a question I ask myself a lot.
The answer is, it was a lot of things. Me choosing a sprawling story. Me being too enamored with creating systems instead of sticking to character. Me losing the thread of the tale. And my father’s death.
An accumulated weariness was the killer in the end. Passion is what finishes projects. Eventually the pen ran dry.
But the story is still there. That box isn’t closed. Perhaps I’ll open it up again eventually.
Wish there was more to the tale. But that’s a writer’s life for you.
Took a small break to consider things. Would things be improved by being able to see what choices you might have been able to make if Doctrine, Logistics, Leadership, or Career were higher? There aren’t many instances for this, and they’re easy enough to edit in when they do occur.
Seems like a good idea. It would probably increase the amount of times people replay the game, since they’re probably going to want to see the stuff they missed out on.
Edit: Finally got around to playing Chapter 3 (the one in Tunisia) and I have some feedback. There wasn’t that much meaningful interaction with any of the characters in this chapter. That’s fine, I know this isn’t a character focused game, but there was so little going on in the beginning of the chapter, it felt kind of empty. The scenes where something did happen (finding the crashed German plane and the encounter with the Italians) felt kind of wooden? I think the encounter with the Germans was supposed to be impactful, but it just kind of fell flat for me, since I didn’t care for any of those characters and there was no real emotional payoff to the interaction.
I’m also not sure if the French sargeant was supposed to be a sympathetic character. I don’t think he was, but even still, he kind of reads like someone with no redeeming qualities and that makes him kind of uninteresting imo. I think if we had more time to interact with him, or if we got to see him show some sort of depth it would make him more interesting.
Finally, I’d suggest adding something to the path where you don’t check out the crashed plane in Chapter 3. This could just be a bug, but I thought it was kind of weird that the chapter just ended for you if you chose to ignore the plane and continue on your way.
@augustus27 - Good notes. There will almost certainly need to be more character interaction throughout the piece. Even if it is just a line here or there triggered by different events. The tank is loud when the engine is running, but that doesn’t mean people don’t talk.
And yeah, Sergeant Baume, the Frenchman Infantryman, has been through a rough three years of war. Should try to make him more understandable to the player via that.
I love the demo so far. I hope that theirs an option in the future to switch to a different tank and used the upgrades that we previously had on the tank to the new tank.
And also is this game only focusing on the allies north africa campaign or will it gradually progressed up to the france, battle of the bulge, germany and then pacific theater???
And also may you also create a log on the top saying if theirs a new update of the WIP.
Love your work on Tin Star probably one of the best games ive played hoping this one will also be the same if not better. Keep up the good work.
**Seventy mile**..." he says and performs internal math on that. "**Forty kilometer**. Yes, that is what the maps say."
He then extracts a cigarette from the pack with flick of the wrist, catching it neatly between those same fingers. A lighter follows. A waft of gasoline fumes rises up as your men begin the transfer of gasoline.
You seem to have interchanged seventy and forty. I know this was typographical rather than the “Mile is smaller than a kilometer” but quite close lol
For this game, the PC will have to endure the Stuart model of light tank. If I do another, likely enough, there would probably be an option to move into a medium tank.
The game will probably only cover the fighting in North Africa. The next game might deal with Sicily, Italy, Anzio, and then Southern France. The Battle of the Bulge… yeah, that’d be good. Or else a parrying of Operation Northwind.
And yeah, a log would be good. I’ll try to figure out how to do that.
@Bleh99 - Good catch. Yes, it looks like I reversed those. Thank you, especially for providing the snippet of text where it occurs. That makes it much easier to track down.
And apparently this was your first post. So, welcome to the forums.
Chapter 4 is resolving itself steadily. Some of it is more open than other portions.
Let me ask a question, how much do you playtesters mind a ‘Rail-Ride’ in games?
I ask because there will be times where, as a sergeant, you’ll be subordinate to a lieutenant during a mission involving dozens of tanks. Options are therefore more limited than usual for a portion of play. You’re told to follow the platoon, and you must. You’re told to engage a target, and you must… with some options. You’re told to attack, and off you go.
At least to me, that still seems fairly open. Similar to a quest in a fantasy story, you have an objective, but how you get there is up to you. And besides, following orders is fairly important in military settings. So even if the story was extremely railroaded, I’d argue this is one of the few stories that I would be totally fine with that.
I agree with @Jackpot1776. Choice doesn’t have to be unlimited. In this game, I do not choose to be serve in the US military during operation torch, it is simply a given. The choice factor comes into play by giving the player different ways of completing a given objective.
@Jackpot1776 and @YHGS - So, having to follow specific orders is seen as an acceptable part of this story. And so long as the objective of the chapter ultimately has different approaches, that feels acceptable to the player.
Good, because trying to do it any other way felt impossible.
Working on the last objective to Chapter 4. It isn’t one that is solvable solely through firepower.
I’m not sure if I just like to follow orders, but that’s good. We aren’t really a high-ranking officer; we’re a tank commander and that gives us some leeway on how we’ll carry out our orders but we still do have to follow orders.
And there are many ways to engage a target: we may stay at range and patiently fire off our 37mm, we could charge and move and fire, we could stick with the platoon and attack as a unit, we could help any infantry here, and so on
Although if I may, maybe previous choices could affect the results of our choices here? For example, a telescopic sight would allow us to target more accurately at long range or the gyrostabilizer would make moving and firing easier or maybe the tank threads would make us more stealthy?
So, realistic options to general orders feel acceptable as part of the play here. That’s good.
And yeah, there is usually more than one way to approach a field problem, especially for the grunt on the line. If it works, of course. “I couldn’t get a good angle on that Kraut MG, so I flanked with my fire-team and took it out. That okay, Lt?”
Moreover, there’s a lot of chaos in battle. An inexperienced officer giving vague orders or forgetting to order anything at all for part of his force is par for course. Sergeants filling in the blanks seems to happen a lot in many accounts.
As noted, previous choices should color the options. Traits will play a role, as will the equipment. The telescopic sight will get mentioned when the range utilizes it. The gyrostabilizer will get the same when firing on the move. The rubber sound dampeners for the bogies and sprockets, and rubber sheathes for treads have only gotten one mention thus far. Stealth has yet to come into play.
The best thing to do with this is probably not to agonize over it, but to finish writing and get the chapter to you playtesters; revising things as necessary.
Chapter 4 is ready for testing. Thanks to everyone who has stuck with this despite the delays. Wish this was my primary project so that it would move along faster, but we’ll get there nonetheless.
